Croda Posted November 17, 2000 Share Posted November 17, 2000 I realize that this has been discussed, but it's hit me twice in the last three days, so I thought I'd bring it up again. AFV threat assessment needs to be altered, tweeked, modified, or outright changed. I have two stories for you. In one pbem, I had an immobilized Chaffee on the reverse slope of a small rise with a house at his 11 o'clock and 1 o'clock, both on the rise. A squad in the left house is being targetted. The squad breaks and runs left to right across the screen towards the other house, crossing the gap between the two buildings. The Chaffee traversed it's turret, continuing to engage the infantry as it ran...ran right in front of a Panther that had just come over the rise! Now the Chaffee was probably buttoned (I'm not sure) but it traversed it's turret right past an enemy Panther that was directly in front of it, and continued engaging the infantry. Net Result: Dead M24. Same thing happened in another game, where an M8 Greyhound traversed it's turret to engage routed infantry which ran right to left in front of it. They inf ran right past a Mark IV which moved in from the Greyhound's 12 o'clock. Again the M8 was probably buttoned, but should have seen something straight ahead of it...shouldn't it. Net Result: Dead M8. I remember MadMatt saying there was a delicate balance here, and that a small tweek could have large ramifications. Is anything being changed on this for the 1.1 patch? And also, is it me or are Panzerfausts ridiculously effective? I have no historical context to put this in, but it certainly seems like German infantry are sometimes more deadly against enemy AFVs than the German armor. Were they really that effective? I don't recall ever seeing Allied inf and their grenades/rifle grenades/gammon bombs have any success against German armor. Is it my tactics, or is something amiss. Thanks. ------------------ "Nuts!" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterNZer Posted November 17, 2000 Share Posted November 17, 2000 Yeah, they were pretty damn effective 1) They've got a big charge 2) They are simple to use and aim 3) for the pf100 at under 60m it was felt to have as much as 80% accuracy (read it somewhere on some page) 4) High elevation required results in a better chance at a hit since a few degrees wrong here or there just results in small forward/back movement of the round over the targe.. or something PeterNZ ------------------ "I know the human being and fish can coexist peacefully." George W Bush -Saginaw, Mich., Sept. 29, 2000 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snake Eyes Posted November 17, 2000 Share Posted November 17, 2000 I can't speak to the TacAI, but it could use some delicate tweaking. The panzerfaust was ridiculously effective. IF it hits, it should penetrate just about any Allied vehicle from any aspect. Its primary weakness was its short range, although that improved over time as new models were developed. Allied anti-tank rifle grenades have a much smaller warhead and are therefore less effective. Gammon bombs must be hand delivered, thereby restricting their usefulness. ------------------ It is easy to be brave from a safe distance. -Aesop Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest wwb_99 Posted November 17, 2000 Share Posted November 17, 2000 German infantry was rediculously effective against attack from massed AFVs. They had been practicing in the east for three years before Overlord. WWB ------------------ Ave, Caesar! Morituri te salatamus. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Brian Posted November 17, 2000 Share Posted November 17, 2000 Historically, the PF was an effective weapon … IF it hit. However, it was not as accurate as one would expect. New numbers came out. I'll dig them up. Basically though, just stay away from infantry. ------------------ Doc God Bless Chesty Puller, Wherever He Is! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paullus Posted November 17, 2000 Share Posted November 17, 2000 The Russians suffered huge AFV losses to PzFausts on the final drive into Germany. Zhukov lost something like 500 - 600 tanks on the attack on the Seelowe Heights and beyond. One factor that limited the total effectiveness of the weapon was the poorly trained nature of most of the infantry using it through May 1945. It did take a lot of courage to fire one of those pocket-rockets, and the old men and boys lacked most of the intestinal fortitude necessary to get a clean kill. The bazooka & piat were just pale substitutes for the Pzfaust & Pzschreck. Both lacked the penetration capabilities of the German weapons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Brian Posted November 17, 2000 Share Posted November 17, 2000 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by paullus: The Russians suffered huge AFV losses to PzFausts on the final drive into Germany. Zhukov lost something like 500 - 600 tanks on the attack on the Seelowe Heights and beyond. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE> But not all are accounted to PF attacks. You have armor, mines, mechanical breakdown, AT Guns, and of course, armor. I disagree about the old guys and young boys. If I was of military age, I'd lack the intestinal fortitude as well!!!!!!!!!!!!!! No way I'd want to get in front of the Red Army with nothing but vengeance and retribution on their collective minds after what Germany did. plus, my instinct to survive would have taken over a long time ago. To this day, I'm amazed at the actions and sacrifices all the nations shouldered. ------------------ Doc God Bless Chesty Puller, Wherever He Is! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Brian Posted November 17, 2000 Share Posted November 17, 2000 OPPS. Sorry. I'm getting off the topic of threat assesment. Anyway, I've been BURNED numerous times with my AFV shooting at infantry, and enemy AFVs coming over a hill, or around a corner, when I'm telling them NOT to shoot. I had a SP Gun about 700m away from any threat. There was some infantry on a hill to my right, but the town, when enemy AFVs were located, was to my left. I kept telling my SP Gun Not to shoot, and turn his covered arc to the town. Each turn, he'd rotate to attack the infantry. When the enemy AFVs came out of the town, I didn't have a prayer. THIS....pissed me off. ------------------ Doc God Bless Chesty Puller, Wherever He Is! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terence Posted November 17, 2000 Share Posted November 17, 2000 i disagree that this is a bug and needs to be changed. I've been told that for a tired, stressed-out soldier under combat conditions, its pretty easy to get tunnel vision and miss something that you, as a player with your godlike top down view, might think is obvious. Imagine the tc, (in the situation you describe) He's still in one piece even though his tank has been immobilized, maybe his bell was rung by the shell that stopped his tank. He's cranking the turret like mad thinking "ha ha ha, those sillly bastards are running across open ground and me here with my machine gun." Fixated on making hash out of the infantry (who perhaps can't be totally discounted as a threat...) and with the tank buttoned, its pretty easy (for me, at least) to understand why he misses the panther. Ive never been in combat but Ive read rather alot about it, and Ive heard vets describing the tunnel vision that happens. Im I totally off base? I'd like to hear it if I am. BTS? (if you don't mind weighing in on this topic for the 954th time this week) Ive got no opinion on the panserfaust thing, though. I treat all enemy infantry as if they carried not just panzerfausts but uncannily accurate heavy blasters and lasers and and so I viciously and remorselessly ambush, shell, mortar, suppress, and smoke them accordingly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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