Stug IIIG w/Saukopt Mantle vs. U.S 37 & 75 Guns

[JoMac]

Noticed this for years and figured to find info...Why is the U.S. 37 & 75mm Guns penetrating the Stug IIIG w/ Saukopt Mantle front at around 500 meters away (didn't test longer ranges). 

Doesn't this Mantle have 80mm Armor sloped at different angles with 45 degrees being average...Or, is it because the Concrete Mantle is not as effective against these caliber guns. I also wonder if playing CMRT against Russian T-34/76 I would get the same penetration results. So, It seems to me that this Mantle is the weakest part of the front vehicle.

Edited March 25 by JoMac

[wolfgang500]

I did not test it, but over the years I noticed that by the game the turret fronts or mantlets int StuG´s and Pz IV are considered the weakest points. In reality this was not true of course (only talking about weapon mantlets, not front plates). Seems to be a in-game bug. Maybe the game engine does not make any difference between front plate and mantlet.

[Brille]

4 hours ago, JoMac said:

Or, is it because the Concrete Mantle is not as effective against these caliber guns.

I might be ill informed but this is the first time I heard about concrete mantlets. As far as I know it was normal steel armor.

Later concrete was applied on Stugs but this was additional armor for the front plate, not the mantlet. I would guess that concrete would do not so well when applied on moving parts but Im no expert.

1 hour ago, wolfgang500 said:

Seems to be a in-game bug. Maybe the game engine does not make any difference between front plate and mantlet.

Looking at the Panzer IV there would be a rather small mantlet that overlaps with the front plate.

Maybe BFC rather simplified it at that point but I never really tested it out to be honest. But I would guess that If an 75mm AP round penetrated the mantlet (50mm) at a point where it overlaps with the front plate (also 50mm) maybe would not penetrate the tank but probably would do nothing good to the gun/ gun mechanism itself.

 

To the problem: To be honest I played with and against Stug rather rarely.

The times that I did they were pretty much outgunned so that their front armor didnt really matter.

However against T34/76 they were pretty resilient. Only observation I made was that, like with all the german tank hunters, the guns were often out of action after repeated hits due to the "aim for center" mechanic.

Would need to test this to make some comments on that but from the feeling I highly doubt that a 37mm could and should penetrate a Stug like that.

 

Edited March 25 by Brille

[Vacillator]

As far as the game is concerned, from the Downfall manual:

StuG IIIG (Concrete)
In a desperate measure to improve the outdated StuG III's protection against antitank weapons,
some units made field modifications to their vehicles. In one such version, concrete was poured
over the casemate to form a new layer of armor.

[Vacillator]

I realise it's not yet pedantry Friday, but it is of course 'Saukopf', pig's head.  Here's a nice video (especially if you like wheels ) filmed at Fort Benning in the US of A.  No concrete on this one though if you're looking for that...

 

Edited March 25 by Vacillator

[wolfgang500]

18 hours ago, Vacillator said:

StuG IIIG (Concrete)
In a desperate measure to improve the outdated StuG III's protection against antitank weapons,
some units made field modifications to their vehicles. In one such version, concrete was poured
over the casemate to form a new layer of armor.

This is true, but the concrete was NEVER poured over the mantlet, Saukopf or standard.

CM seems to have a problem with frontal Assault Guns armor, as also Jagdpanthers are very prone to gun damage from hits that otherwise do not penetrate. This could have happened here and then, of course, but I never read anywhere about occuring that issue in reality so frequently.

And I believe, for that matter, that the US 3,7 cm ATgun is overrated in the damage algorithms. I often encountered Pz IVs being knocked out frontally at rather larger distances. Again, with some "lucky shot" this might be posssible, but not always.

Edited March 26 by wolfgang500
Added 3,/ cm ATgun paragraph

[JoMac]

So, and since where on the subject, what are the Armor of the Stug III F & G Flat Mantlet...I'm thinking the F had 50mm Armor and the G had 80mm or was it still 50mm ?

Edited April 6 by JoMac