kump Posted June 8, 2000 Share Posted June 8, 2000 Being an avid wargamer, I immediately pre-ordered months ago. But normally never trying out demo's, I just couldn't resist. After three games with the demo I was left with the following impressions/concerns.... 1) RTS vs Turn based. Being a Steel Panthers fanatic, I found it hard to call CM a turn based game. More like an RTS that pauses every 60 seconds allowing commands only when paused, unlike most RTS games that allow only commands when un-paused. Did not immediately embrace the game system and think it the best thing ever. I hate RTS and love the turn based pace and control. However, what I saw and experienced in CM simply was astounding and really spoke highly of the game developers skill and dedication to the CM game project. I admire it. I just have to give it more time to see if the game system itself will grow on me. However, some things in CM got my eyes big and oval in regard to what may seem as oddities... 2) Target Priorities. In VoT, my pillboxes got fixated on infantry and an M4A3 manuevered to fire and destroy my pillboxes. What surprised me is that even after being fired on multiple times, the pillboxes continued firing at pinned down infantry. I know I can override the target, but it seems the AI should change to the target of greatest threat to itself. Not immediately, but after being fired on a couple of times, wouldn't the guys in the pillbox wonder who was hurling lethal rounds in their direction? Infantry would be a higher threat if they approached too closely, but the infantry in this case were at 400+ m range and suppressed by another supporting HMG, so don't know why the AI prioritized them so highly. 3) An M4A3 (75) did what?!? In VoT, I had the reinforcing Panther take a hull down position and try to take out a sherman or two. To my astonishment, and bad luck, the Panther lowered its gun and cha-ching.... it was taken out by a shot from an M4A3(75) on its front armor. This wasn't even the M4A3E8 that I actually feared. Wow, I was stupified. Not only because my Panther was taken out frontally by a single shot from an M4A3, but because the Sherman's were using HE rounds on infantry before my Panther made its appearance. How did the Sherman switch to AP so fast? Or did an HE round take me out (douptful)? Or did it hear me coming and quickly change to AP before I was actually seen? It left me scratching my head.... 4) Veteran vs Regular. Wow, a veteran unit in CM is just astounding compared to a Regular. In VoT, I was shocked at the stupendous and brave behavior of the veteran M4A3 over the Regular M4A3. This guy was always out in front, reacting so much more quickly, and showing itself easily worth more than three regular M4A3s. And there are better units than this in the full version! An elite AFV will have me quacking in my boots. Maybe the differences in AI for the morale levels are too extreme. Don't know, need more playing time. 5) Conclusion Even with a loathing for all things RTS, I very impressed with this product and will be spending a lot more time with it, learning its ins and outs and giving it time to grow on me. I'm really hoping it quickly replaces my all time favorite SP, which is getting a little long in the tooth... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bobbaro Posted June 9, 2000 Share Posted June 9, 2000 There have already been simular observations on targeting and buttoned AFVs seeming overly responsive. I believe that these issues have been addressed via changes in the game disk and in a patch available simultaneous with the shipping date. As to the matter of how the turns are being handled, I think you will grow to forget your initial reaction. In a way it is a tribute to the game system in that you feel the immedicy of the real time play in a turn based game. The turns are very distinct and countable. Most importantly you have the time to make each of your orders a based on a well considered decision and not a desparate click as the battle gets away from you. It is the order of execution that is different, otherwise still done in turns with simultaneous execution. One thing, in comparison to SP, CM puts a stop to very unrealistic tactical and gamey tricks SP allows in that turn based system common to games using it, the vast majority. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikeydz Posted June 9, 2000 Share Posted June 9, 2000 1. Yep, CM is quite a bit different than most other games out there. It's not turn based the way other turn based games are. And it's not real time the way RTS games are. It's a unique system, that's for sure. 2. If there is anything that drives S & C nuts, it's tweaking the targeting priority codes to where everyone is happy. I'm sure they are not done working on making this as work as well as they can make it work. 3. Tough call. Using AP, at the right angle, the M4A3(75) can take out out the Panther out to 2000m (AP ammo at 0 deg at 2km is 62, vs front lower hull thickness of 60 for the Panther, according to in game stat boxes) I'm assuming it would have changed to Ap because in game stats indicate that HE would be totally ineffective against a Panther front armor at any range, so I would doubt it would have even wasted the ammo. Hard to say without knowing what part of the front (upper, lower, or turret) took the hit, but it is possible looking at the stats. Over all, I would say bad luck though. Considering I played that scenario once with the Allies at 150% forces, my Panther probably had 20+ ricochets against the front armor in a hull down position before the final death shot hit. 4. Suffice to say, that Veteran units are very nice units to have. I'm sure some of the older regulars might recall the little test I ran comparing the rate of fire of the Shermans vs the Stugs in CE. The important point as it applies to your message is that the Veteran tanks had a significant advantage over the Regular ones. And that was just in ROF. I can't wait to see the elite units. I wouldn't say that a Veteran unit is worth 3 Regular, but I can understand your point. Link to my "reseach" data. Page 2 of the thread... http://www.battlefront.com/discuss/Forum1/HTML/002688.html Mikey Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EScurlock Posted June 9, 2000 Share Posted June 9, 2000 Perhaps the Sherman hit the shot trap on the Panther. A hit on the lower gun mantlet on the Panther will cause a ricochet into the thin top hull plate. Late model Panthers had an additional piece added to the mantle to eliminate this problem. A nother possibility would be a turret ring hit. CM models both. ------------------ He who gets there the fastest with the mostest wins. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GriffinCheng+ Posted June 9, 2000 Share Posted June 9, 2000 Since CM model does not seem to show "caps off", you won't know if it was a turret ring hit. AFAIK, turret ring hit usually leaves no survivors. Griffin @ work. ------------------ "+" is just the beginning. Expect to see "GriffinCheng76", "GriffinCheng(105)" or "GriffinChengA3E8" more should Forum problems occur again Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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