Topographic Maps of France

[Old Crow]

I played the map-go-round on the internet and found the best solution (so far)to acquiring topographic maps of France for scenario design. This is probably common knowledge to some but to those living west of GMT, maybe not.

The French produce, through thier National Geographic Institute (IGN), 1:25000 topographic maps (Blue Series) that are very detailed right down to the hedgerow. CM lists the Games of War site as one resource for obtaining these maps but their method of ordering, payment and shipping times are a bit inconvenient for me. The best place I found was at http://www.mapsworldwide.co.uk Very convenient for on-line purchasing, prices comparable to Games of War and a lot faster shipping.

[Guest Mirage2k]

Thanks! I'm going to check it out.

-Andrew

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"No, it's not that kind of relationship. We're just friends. We are together all the time, but I never touch her porcelain skin, her soft, red lips, like rose petals from the emperor's bathwater! Bathwater, I tell you, bathwateeeeeeer!"

[Moon]

Hello Old Crow,

sorry to hear that you don't like the ordering at Gamesofwar, but it's understandable - offering credit card payments is just too expensive to make sense for now (German banks are just greedy). And gamesofwar is not a commercial enterprise, it's a way to get maps into the hands of fellow wargamers (after countless frustrating hours trying to find some myself...)

Sure there are other options, the site you gave is one of many similar - although they do not seem to have too many small-scale topo maps on offer (might have also just not found them, though). However, the BEST choice is definitely IGN itself. This is where I am buying my maps from (albeit at a dealer discount of course), and they ARE cheaper than my offerings at Gamesofwar (hey, they are making these). The site is www.ign.fr , but you should speak some french If you can, you can order your maps online, too!

For other parts of Europe, check out: www.ngi.be (the belgium site with Ardennes etc.), which offers french or dutch as language. I haven't found an online offering for German maps since the site of the geographic institute in Germany is rather basic (so basic that I forgot the URL right now). Well, that's it anyway.

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"An hour has 60 minutes, each minute in action has a thousand dangers."

- Karl-Heinz Gauch, CO 1st Panzerspähkompanie, 12th SS Panzerdivision

[MikeO]

BTW, anyone living in London can get any of the IGN Blue series (1:25,000) from Stanfords map shop in the Covent Garden area of the City.

[cyrano01]

Quite a few of the bigger bookshops in the UK stock some of the 1:25000 French maps, usually for the more popular tourist areas. Happily Normandy is in this category and I picked up the sheets covering the British beaches and Caen in Waterstones Manchester branch some while ago.

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The British Army always fights its battles uphill, in the pouring rain, at the junction of two map-sheets. (Field Marshal W. Slim)

[Forever Babra]

All right, so which one of you bastiches wants to send me a good clear scan of Carpiquet?

I'll happily trade you an interesting map of Gold Beach (in three parts) showing all German positions.

[Peachy]

I posted something on 24/10/2000 this year with reference to actual 1943/44 maps of Normandy at 1:25,000 and 1:50,000 - I think this is the shortcut - These are an excellent source.

Take it from me areas like Capriquet, Villers Bocage, Noyers have changed dramatically since 1944 with Motorways, out of town supermarkets etc.

The above link gives you a good source for origionals that take in large numbers of Battlefields on songle sheets and the beach maps all have Intelligence makrings of known defences.

[Peachy]

Sorry - forgot to add - Babra - if you want the Capriquet Spread I can Scan it for you and mail it - it will be pretty chunky or I can send a photocopy - I have a 1944 1:25,000 of the area

[Moon]

Hi Peachy,

certainly historical maps - when you can get them - are always preferrable. I own a number of aerial photographs from 1945-1950 and have done some comparison between modern maps and "then". Even though there always are some differences, it is amazing to see how little has really changed. Most roads (even if larger, i.e. highways) are running along older routes, most houses (even if new built) have been built right on top of an older farmhouse. Admittedly, this is different around larger towns and cities, where you will often find suburban areas which didn't exist before. But this is easy to spot in most cases by looking at a modern map. I am currently writing a little "guide" on how to recreate CM maps from modern 1:25000 topo maps, which should be up at gamesofwar in a few weeks (yep, it's a deep topic, at least when you're a map nut as I am).

One more thing - hate to say it, but watch that copyright. Even historical (and certainly all modern) maps are (usually) copyrighted, just like books. The main reason why I am not offering scans of maps from gamesofwar.de

Martin

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"An hour has 60 minutes, each minute in action has a thousand dangers."

- Karl-Heinz Gauch, CO 1st Panzerspähkompanie, 12th SS Panzerdivision

[Moon]

One more thing (before people think I am trying to protect a business here or something) - I am thinking currently about going around that copyright issue myself and offer large CM maps ready-made off modern 1:25000 topo maps (and other historical materials, like the aerial photographs) for download for scenario makers. I.e. you can download the map, trim it as you need it, and use it for historical scenarios. Let's see how this works out with my limited time, but - of course - let me know if you guys would be interested in something like that...

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"An hour has 60 minutes, each minute in action has a thousand dangers."

- Karl-Heinz Gauch, CO 1st Panzerspähkompanie, 12th SS Panzerdivision

[Guest Napoleon1944]

Excellent idea. It would be nice to have a map online for a vitural campaign. If this happens, count me in for support!

[Peachy]

There is a copyright issue here all of the historical maps I have are covered by Crown Copyright in the UK and hence can only be used for private or research use - In my earlier Mail of 24/10 gave details of who to contact at the Imperial war Museum in London to order copies and a key of what Maps are available - I can give this key to anyone who asks for it. The IWM will probably have other maps of UK zones of ops in Holland and Germany - I will check this out next week.

The thread is below

http://www.battlefront.com/discuss/Forum1/HTML/011993.html

[Rich90TO]

The original Army Map Servics map series are available through the US National Archives and Record Administration in 1:25,000, 1:50,000, 1:100,000 covering most of the ETO and MTO. There are also a limited selection of 1:10,000 maps available.

If you know the map reference (in original documents it is usually denoted as GSGS, then a four-digit number, then a map scale, then the number of the sheet, thus: GSGS 4347, 1/25,000, Sheets 31/18 NW, 31/18 NE, which cover the vicinity of Ste. Mere Eglaise) for the grid you need you can order them from the Archives.