PeterNZer Posted October 8, 2000 Share Posted October 8, 2000 at 11 hundred hours everyone gathered at the steps of the Imperial War Museum here in London, all except me, I was late and didn't get there till 11.20 In attendance, Andreas (Germanboy), Mattias (Dr Alimintado), Jon (Chupacabra), Ioanis (whose nickname i forget hehe and whose name I spelt wrong) and myself. Heading inside, armed with cameras and even a digital cam thanks to Ioanis we prepared for a day of extensive military history! In the end I took some 36 shots, there were about 60 on the digital cam and Andreas got a roll as well, so pretty comprehensive pile! Going to describe what we saw and took pictures of, and we'll all try and get them posted soonish or something first off was a lovely sherman with a 75mm gun. Smaller but higher than I expected. We got lots of good shots of it and its markings as well as welded on 'anti shot trap' plates near the driver and MG gun sponson thingy. Also numerous extra armored plates welded on the side of the hull, interesting. We think there may have been hatches there that were removed and welded over. Next was a Churchill VIII if i recall correctly, very interesting, so long! and big! Built in typical British battleship tradition it seems. We cycled around and saw a Pak 40? (Germy boy will know) and various small arty pieces, suprised how small they are, no wonder they are hard to spot. Monty's Matilda was interesting, but damn that tank looks like a waste of time. After that, the Daimler which I think is just damn rock'n. Huge ass wheels and suspension and that lovely turret on the top, acclaimed as a fantastic bit of kit and I can see why now. The the mighty T34. Surprised me in two ways, firstly, it's a very modern looking design, second it's not that much bigger than the Sherman. Imagine if the allies had been fighting with that on the west front! Finally a Jagdpanther, complete with four holes in the side of it near the back where AP rounds had punched into the engine compartment. As a tank, or TD, I didn't like it, so gawd damn huge and with no turret.. scary stuff. At some point we got to chat to a crazed museum employee who told us about an armor museum south of London we will day-trip too soonish, and about this huge fair where you can buy yourself a lovely bit of WW2 kit, held once a year, (July/August). He was interesting but a bit mad, too many years of collecting military junk. Then at the J-Panther some old guy started going on about something like.. "the tigers used to run right over 'em, right over! Just tip them over!". I got quite lost as to what he was trying to say, but nodded and made 'yeah, pretty scary' kinda statements while my brain ran in small hamstery circles. Which reminds me, we have conclusive proof Gerbils fought for the Allies, you'll have to wait for the digi-cam shots tho. Then after a spot of lunch and chat we wandered upstairs and had a look at the AA gun Andreas trained on as well as bits of bombers and other stuff, including a full pak 88 or something Then we headed to the basement for the trench experience and ww1 and 2 gear. Andreas was very happy to see a picture of some MG42 gunners running with their gun hehe, as well as some amphibias (sp?) craft with an MG on it, so expect some arguments with BTS soon haha! I can't really remember all the other details, but it was very interesting and we spent about 5 hours there in the end! We'll try to arrange hosting and scanning soon. O! Almost forgot! Got photo of the navingehamsterwaffel from inside the tank, (JP was cut away on one side) Also got to marvel at the tiny nebelgerbilwaffel rocket thingy. Also found a section on the finnish war and have a lovely picture of a nice Molotov coctail hehe. More will come out of the wash I'm sure. PeterNZ ------------------ <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Hamsters Wrote: PeterNZ: He hasn’t proven to be particularly valiant but I think he’d make a good doorman<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coralsaw Posted October 8, 2000 Share Posted October 8, 2000 Yeap, very cool museum. This is Ioannis (aka CoralSaw). Great great fun, excellent exhibits, totally recommended. Stayed there till our feet hurt, about 5-6 hours I guess. Just unloaded my Ixus digital. After having cleaned the crap pictures out, I have 43 jpgs each one being about half a meg. As I don't have a site, they are waiting for a home to be provided by a kind soul We'll sort something out with the lads and post them. They are actually quite cool!!! Highlights include: - The 3 holes in the JP (boy did these guys hurt... - The Gerbil (although IMO it is a hamster, it belongs to a German armored car IIRC) - Loadsa vehicles Armored cars, 88s, pak, matilda, churchill, t34, even a V1 - 2 Gerries carrying a MMG (?) - A recreation of a german motorcycle - An Enigma machine - The molotov cocktail - The NebelWerfer - Pictures from inside the JP Had a great time! Keep you posted. CoralSaw ------------------ The best things in life are sniped at... [This message has been edited by coralsaw (edited 10-08-2000).] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Dog Posted October 8, 2000 Share Posted October 8, 2000 I expect that "armor museum south of London" is Bovington, actually a military base with a museum. Truely unbelievable place! AFAIK, they have more WWII armor on public display than anywhere else in the world - Panther, Hetzer, StuG, T34's (76 and 85 as I recall), Matilda, Churchill, Shermans, armored cars... and on and on and on. When I was there some years ago the ongoing project was getting their Tiger operational again A MUST SEE for any armor enthusiast in UK, even if it is out in the middle of nowhere. - Old Dog Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterNZer Posted October 8, 2000 Author Share Posted October 8, 2000 Yup! That's the place! We're going to go in a month or two. What I'd like to to is get a list for requested photos and try and fill it, like "would love to see a navingehamsterwaffel from the top". If we were cunning we could pose as researcher types and perhaps get more access than other people to exhibits. So folks, when the time comes and we post we're going, tell us what you want! That goes for you too BTS, we'll try and get some stuff on the Russian gear I guess! And Coralbaby, it was a DAIMLER, that's an ENGLISH vehicle! And the image was quite clearly of a gerbil, since we all know the hamsters fought for the vile hun PeterNZ ------------------ <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Hamsters Wrote: PeterNZ: He hasn’t proven to be particularly valiant but I think he’d make a good doorman<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Germanboy Posted October 8, 2000 Share Posted October 8, 2000 CoralSaw, the rodent rampant on the Daimler is a Jerboa, aka a desert rat, and I would tend to believe that the Daimler saw service with the armoured Recce regiment of 7th UK Armoured Division. The place down-south is indeed Bovington, in Dorset. Looks like a day trip in the 'Red Baron' (aka my crappy Volvo). And the Pak is a 50mm Pak 40 I believe, but contrary to the opinion of Peter I am not a grog, and therefore more likely than not to be wrong. Having said that, there was a desert Matilda, and Monty's command Grant tank on display. I hope to get my pictures scanned towards the end of the week, I have a lot of social engagements (most of them involving members of the opposite gender and Japanese restaurants) during this week, but I'll try my best. The IWM is truly a great place. Well worth the money to get in. Great day out. ------------------ Andreas Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M. Bates Posted October 8, 2000 Share Posted October 8, 2000 Excellent reports, I can't wait to see some of these photos. And from what I remember - Bovington... is... excellent! ------------------ "War is like the cinema. The best seats are at the back... the front is all flicker." - Monte Cassino by Sven Hassel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Michael emrys Posted October 8, 2000 Share Posted October 8, 2000 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by PeterNZer: We're going to go in a month or two. What I'd like to to is get a list for requested photos and try and fill it...<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> What I would suggest for starters is that you take LOTS of film along, like three or four 36 exposure rolls and get several shots of each item. And assign one of you to each vehicle on some kind of rotating basis so you aren't duplicating each other's work. As others have posted, there is a great deal to see at Bovington and you don't want to waste your resources. Do a good job on this, lads, and we just might allow you to come over here and see Aberdeen Proving Grounds. Michael Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stoffel Posted October 8, 2000 Share Posted October 8, 2000 A pak40 is 75 mm and the pak 38 was 50 mm. I missed the opportunaty to visit Bovington last year when I visited a friend in London.I sure would go with you guys but I cannot make it this year Maybe next year. On discovery channel there was an item about that Tiger project,I thought it was in a program called Steel tigers. They have a serie programmes about tanks and shot a lot of footage in Bovington. I love to see pictures of the Kingtiger Henk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterNZer Posted October 8, 2000 Author Share Posted October 8, 2000 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>An evil tuton wrote: I have a lot of social engagements (most of them involving members of the opposite gender and Japanese restaurants) during this week, but I'll try my best<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> ****, which gender would that be? Bovington: good idea re. splitting up workload on the pictures. Any thoughts by people on what they would like to see pictures of? And wonder if we could get in as 'researchers'.. and get better access O, Andreas, Jon, Ioannis, sign me up on icq 1249731 PeterNZ ------------------ <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Hamsters Wrote: PeterNZ: He hasn’t proven to be particularly valiant but I think he’d make a good doorman<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Germanboy Posted October 8, 2000 Share Posted October 8, 2000 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by PeterNZer: ****, which gender would that be? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE> So what you are telling me is that you want to walk to Bovington? Alternatively I could offer to tow you a bit on a skateboard... Regarding pictures, I may just get a digital camera beforehand - the cost of developing a roll here is unreal. ------------------ Andreas Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magua Posted October 8, 2000 Share Posted October 8, 2000 Thanks for the report. Wish i could have made it, sounds like you had a good day. Maybe next time..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterNZer Posted October 8, 2000 Author Share Posted October 8, 2000 I think i might avoid the skateboard and walking idea, and instead say PLEEASE PLEAASE PLEASSE TAKE MEEEEE We should go soon i reckon! i should have the pics from CoralSaw soon, i'll throw them up on panzershark's site and link into them in a new thread PeterNZ ------------------ <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Hamsters Wrote: PeterNZ: He hasn’t proven to be particularly valiant but I think he’d make a good doorman<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aussie Smith Posted October 9, 2000 Share Posted October 9, 2000 Guys If there is one request I have it is that when you take pictures could you have someone stand near the vehicle so relative size can be determined. Oh - and I'm as jealous as all get out Craig Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coralsaw Posted October 9, 2000 Share Posted October 9, 2000 I'm in for Bovington, of course. CoralSaw Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chupacabra Posted October 9, 2000 Share Posted October 9, 2000 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Aussie Smith: Guys If there is one request I have it is that when you take pictures could you have someone stand near the vehicle so relative size can be determined. Craig<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Actually, we did do just that for many of the pictures. I'm not sure what happened to them (*poke guys with the cameras and webpages and stuff*), but I think we have pictures of people next to all of the tanks. ------------------ Soy super bien, soy super super bien, soy bien bien super bien bien bien super super. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterNZer Posted October 9, 2000 Author Share Posted October 9, 2000 This thread is officialy closed cos I say so, go check out the pics thread! PeterNZ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Rex_Bellator Posted October 9, 2000 Share Posted October 9, 2000 I think that the event (not museum) which is held once a year South of London to which the attendent referred must be the War & Peace Show (aka Beltring). It is held at Paddock Wood in Kent - this year between 19-23rd July. I have been to quite a few museums (incl the ones mentioned above) but they have nothing on this event which is Europes largest gathering of working military vehicles. Anyone who can get really should go, as all the vehicles are put through their paces in the Arena. Most of them are involved in well staged re-enactments throughout the day. Why see them sat still in a museum when you can experience the roar and thunder of them all in action! This year from my memory amongst the WW2 vehicles there were Shermans, Stuarts, a Chuchill Crocodile, a Panzer II (brought over from Sweden), a Panzer IV (just rescued from a Russian marsh and being restored), a beautiful Hetzer, lots of Halftrack variants (SS included), a huge Afrika Korps Prime Mover, live (blank of course) firing of 25 pounders and 17 pounders - awesome, Greyhounds, a Stug III, a Priest, lots of utility vehicles and others I can't remember. Thats just the WW2 stuff, there was also a good selection of 'Nam AFV's and right up to Desert Storm. Also present were lots of re-enactment groups from all over the world, with dedicated enthusiasts putting on battle actions representing Overlord over the 5 days. As far as noise goes you've got to hear (and smell!) a big fight in progress as MG42's, Brens, BARs, other small arms and tank/afv guns all join in - it was incredible and very expensive for the re-enacters. Finally (as the guide said) you could buy and sell afv's there as well . I remember a fully working Stuart on sale for £16,000. You could get Amoured Cars for between £5-9,000. Also up for grabs were a Hellcat, recent Self Propelled Guns, and many utility vehicles. See you there in 2001 !! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterNZer Posted October 9, 2000 Author Share Posted October 9, 2000 haha thanks for that Will keep it in mind! PeterNZ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Holdit Posted October 9, 2000 Share Posted October 9, 2000 If I remember that Jagdpanther correctly, there were three holes in the engine compartment and one into the crew compartment (it's been a few years, so I might be wrong), but I remember wondering if the allied tank that killed it had deliberately immobilized it first before going for the kill. Slightly off-topic, next time you're in that area, I'd heartily recommend a visit to HMS Belfast. There's also an RAF museum at Hendon which is worth the trip. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geier Posted October 9, 2000 Share Posted October 9, 2000 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Holdit: There's also an RAF museum at Hendon which is worth the trip.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> I'll second that motion. Great place. ------------------ Johan "The succesful execution of a well devised plan often looks like luck to saps." Dashiell Hammett Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sitting Duck Posted October 9, 2000 Share Posted October 9, 2000 Hello! This seemed like the best place to ask... Business has me traveling to Marbella, Spain in the middle part of November. Is there anything of WW2 interest that I could see while I'm there? Did a bit of searching but it looks like mainly golf... On the way to Marbella, I do have a 12 hour (!) layover on November 9th in London's Gatwick (from 8am - 8pm GMT). The pictures of the military equipment on the other thread have inspired me to use that time to visit the IWM! Does this seem reasonably possible given the layover time? Could I (please) ask someone with familiarity with the London area to email me privately with some hint of directions to get to/from the Museum from Gatwick? I could take a taxi, but I really enjoy riding the trains when I visit London. We don't have much in the way of interesting public transportation here in sunny Florida. It's also the first time I'll be visiting London in November. (If you can call 12 hours a visit.) The fellows in our UK office assure me that I'll need to invest in some cold weather gear? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterNZer Posted October 9, 2000 Author Share Posted October 9, 2000 mail is down at work.. so here goes. No idea where Gatwick is really. You need to get to Waterloo tube station, from there it is signposted. It's open from.. 10am? I dunno. PeterNZ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest machineman Posted October 9, 2000 Share Posted October 9, 2000 I'll give another reccommendation for the Bovington museum. A LOT of tanks in one place. Remember one nice lineup of a PZIV, Panther, Kingtiger, JagdPanther, and JagdTiger all in a row. It may be worthwhile phoning ahead to see if you can go inside the tanks to do research, would probably make it more interesting than looking at the outsides all day. Here's the link to their web site. http://www.tankmuseum.co.uk/home.html I notice they have a bunch of activities coming up on the Oct holidays. Here's a little picture from the site showing their tiger torn apart for restoration [This message has been edited by machineman (edited 10-09-2000).] [This message has been edited by machineman (edited 10-09-2000).] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterNZer Posted October 9, 2000 Author Share Posted October 9, 2000 Thanks for that. One of us should be the spokesy person, I'm happy to do so. Germanyboy? Chupie? Dr Al? CoralSaw? All ok with that plan? And I think we should go soon, i'm keen Um, also um..we will need some research to do.. wonder if anyone has some ideas? PeterNZ ------------------ <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Hamsters Wrote: PeterNZ: He hasn’t proven to be particularly valiant but I think he’d make a good doorman<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Germanboy Posted October 9, 2000 Share Posted October 9, 2000 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by PeterNZer: Thanks for that. One of us should be the spokesy person, I'm happy to do so. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE> That's fine with me. Obviously we are a bunch of game-designers who do research for the ultimate WWII tank simulator game. Which would explain why you are all clueless gits (ie software developers) and I can get away with being the resident grog (despite being a clueless git). Can't go next weekend, but the one after that or later is fine. Sitting Duck, IWM opens at 10am, 12 hours are plenty, you can have breakfast somewhere before. The train only takes 35min and costs either £8.30 (booked inn advance) or £15 on the day. Let me know if there are problems with the way description that I sent by email. ------------------ Andreas Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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