Tiger Posted October 4, 2000 Share Posted October 4, 2000 Sheesh all the enemy spotter has to do is sneeze and all the crews of your field guns abandon their weapons. Just had a game where the nearest shell landed 2 real life inches away and a gun crew abandoned their gun. It was not a large calibre shell either. Mortar. Hell, how much are these gun crews paid to run away? AAAAAARRRRRRRRRRRRRRRGGGGGHHHHHHHHHH -john ps~ feel much better now Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aussie Smith Posted October 4, 2000 Share Posted October 4, 2000 John Had same thing happen:- Hidden Pak40 in Tall Pines in a bloomin foxhole - shot at once by a Sherman 75 - graphically the shell landed close by and you guessed it - the crew bolted (they were Regs). Which leads to another question - do AT guns fire fast enough in CM? As historically a AT gun could get off 2 shots to a tanks 1 (a highly trained crew even more) Craig Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Banshee Posted October 4, 2000 Share Posted October 4, 2000 Do what I do, move your guns They limber up instantly, it only takes time to unlimber them. I had 1 lynx, 1 75mm gun, and 1 schreck vs 4 shermans, I positioned a HT close to the 75mm and right after it nailed 1 sherman it was off to a new position.. a round later 81 mm drops all over the old position .. schreck bangs a sherman trying to make a flank run against my revealed positions.. the newly repositioned 75mm does a double tap taking out the last 2 shermans cresting a hill (I would have moved it again but by that time my whole side of the map was under observation, but I had spotted an arty spotter and chased him down with a HT).. a lot of times AT guns are basically left in place to die and Arty makes short work of them.. If you have no transportation available only count on about 3 shots before getting knocked out.. (it will usually be more). Also try placing them deeper in the woods as that will affect how easily they are spotted, I once had a 20mm firing at me for 5 turns straight (hitting a Firefly), I never spotted the gun till the surrender.. it was very deep in woods but had good LOS. ------------------ Veni, vidi, panzerschrecki Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Commissar Posted October 4, 2000 Share Posted October 4, 2000 Hmm, not so Tiger. In my recent game in which me and a buddy are playing a Infantry VS Infantry force battle, he has several Pak 20mm Flak Guns (im not sure if that's the exact name) which are dominating several very nice hills on his side of the map which he is defending. Well, needless to say those guns are more then a nuisance. Infantry which would try to cross over their line of fire are hamburger. So I placed several 105 mm spotters and one 85mm spotter to take them out. It took my 81mm spotter more then 150 rounds and about 4 turns to take out one of the guns which was IN THE OPEN. The 105mm wasted about 5o rounds and about 2 turns to take out another gun, also in the open. Not sure how this would work if the gun was in the woods, rough, or any other such terrain. Anyway, guns weren't meant to stay alive long if they stayed in the same place. ------------------ "...Every position, every meter of Soviet soil must be defended to the last drop of blood..." - Segment from Order 227 "Not a step back" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Pillar Posted October 4, 2000 Share Posted October 4, 2000 Perhaps guns survive far better if in the open? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Banshee Posted October 4, 2000 Share Posted October 4, 2000 They may survive arty better because their are no tree bursts, but they are more easily spotted and destroyed with direct fire.. so you have a tradeoff. Again, guns are very survivable you just have to move them.. not always possible but effective when you can. ------------------ Veni, vidi, panzerschrecki Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiger Posted October 4, 2000 Author Share Posted October 4, 2000 I wasn't commenting about strategies for keeping guns alive longer. I know to move them. What I'm talking about is the penchance of AT/infantry guns to abandon their weapons at the drop of a hat. It happens all too often. My post above was referring to a mortar shell that landed 2 inches away (real life measurement of the map) that caused a inf gun crew to abandon their weapon. This was the closest strike. Flak guns are not the same as AT weapons or inf guns. Flak weapons all have shields for defense against fragments. AT/inf guns need slightly better survivability against shellfire and mortar fire. I undestand that once found, these guns have a low survivability ratio, but it's ridiculously low at the moment, imho and experience. -john Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slapdragon Posted October 4, 2000 Share Posted October 4, 2000 I have found the bigger the gun, the faster it gets ditched, probably because it is a biger target. Hate to have a 155 in the game, they are probably abandoned when the first turn is generated Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jagdwyrm Posted October 4, 2000 Share Posted October 4, 2000 Commissar those 81mm hit everywhere around him...but with 81mm the blast is fairly small. I know I was counting the turns and very surprised how long he lasted regardless.I think my other guns are in the woods if im not mistaken. [This message has been edited by Jagdwyrm (edited 10-04-2000).] [This message has been edited by Jagdwyrm (edited 10-04-2000).] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr Dan Posted October 4, 2000 Share Posted October 4, 2000 Tiger If you can arrange it, you might try getting the gun crew into C&C with a good HQ unit. Sometimes this will make them "feel" more secure. Dan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moon Posted October 4, 2000 Share Posted October 4, 2000 I don't think they die too easily. It's all a matter of placement and keeping them in command. If you put an AT gun on top of a hill in a foxhole in the open without an HQ nearby - yes, they will go down after one or two shots (or less). But if you put an HQ unit with good morale ability nearby and plase them in defilade and as deep in the woods as you can without losing LOS, the enemy will hardly ever spot them until you got a couple of their tanks (or they send in infantry). I had an 88 survive for 30+ turns of engagement recently. ------------------ "An hour has 60 minutes, each minute in action has a thousand dangers." - Karl-Heinz Gauch, CO 1st Panzerspähkompanie, 12th SS Panzerdivision Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kanonier Reichmann Posted October 4, 2000 Share Posted October 4, 2000 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Moon: I had an 88 survive for 30+ turns of engagement recently. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE> I assume it DID fire at some stage during the game did it? Regards Jim R. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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