Guest Scott Clinton Posted May 19, 2000 Share Posted May 19, 2000 I noticed the AI moving infantry through my minefields even after it walked squads into the same mine fields earlier in the game. It appeared to me that the AI continued to plot paths for infantry through this same mine field even after it has sustained losses (I assume, I saw the mines explode). I zoomed in several times and watched the mines going off...so I know that they triggered at least three mines on three different occasions...but they kept on coming through this SAME minefield. Was this repeated movement through known mine fields a 'tactical decision' by the AI to choose the 'lesser of two evils' (my mines were in the only good cover nearby ) or did the AI 'forget' about the mines? On a side note: Has anyone seen the AI 'Clear Mines'? The AI did not in my game, but then again, I never really gave it a chance to either... ------------------ Please note: The above is solely the opinion of 'The Grumbling Grognard' and reflects no one else's views but his own. [This message has been edited by Scott Clinton (edited 05-19-2000).] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Madmatt Posted May 19, 2000 Share Posted May 19, 2000 In my infamous battle against Fionn I had an Engineer team inadvertantly explode a hidden mine (taking 1 casulity IIRC) as they crossed it. They then walked a little bit further (to get OUT of the field I would assume) turned around and after just a few seconds (maybe 20) they threw a satchel charge unto the field and cleared it for my other units to cross. Madmatt ------------------ If it's in Combat Mission, it's on Combat Mission HQ! And if it's NOT on CMHQ then its just GOT to be on CMHQ-ANNEX... CMHQ http://combathq.thegamers.net CMHQ-Annex http://cmhq.tzo.com Both now proud members of the Combat Mission WebRing [This message has been edited by Madmatt (edited 05-19-2000).] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Scott Clinton Posted May 19, 2000 Share Posted May 19, 2000 Yes, but has anyone seen the AI clear a mine field? This would be a fairly complicated task (logically) for the AI to accomplish IMO: 1.) Locate the mines 2.) Decide the mines were worth clearing 3.) Move engineers to the site while... 4.) Providing covering fire (if needed) 5.) Finally, clear the mines We all take these steps in stride...for the AI a 'stumble' at any point dooms the sequence to failure. Anyone seen it yet? But I am more concerned about the AI continuing to move through 'known' mine fields. ------------------ Please note: The above is solely the opinion of 'The Grumbling Grognard' and reflects no one else's views but his own. [This message has been edited by Scott Clinton (edited 05-19-2000).] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Madmatt Posted May 19, 2000 Share Posted May 19, 2000 Ok, I see your point. I would have to assume it 'could' as to be perfectly honest I did NOTHING to make the above happen. I had given the Enginer squad a move order that was supposed to terminate PAST hidden minefield. In this instance right after the mine went off the TacAi kicked in, stopped the squad, turned around and cleared the field utilizing one of their stachell charges. So in the tactical sense it is very much in the AI's ability to do this. Now then, in the strategic sense, I do not know if the AI will route Enginer units over to a mine field and clear it. I have not played to often in a defensive role where I had minefields AND Enginers were present. I have not, in my experice, seen the AI repeatedly cross a mine field though as it did in your game. It usually tends to avoid them. Madmatt ------------------ If it's in Combat Mission, it's on Combat Mission HQ! And if it's NOT on CMHQ then its just GOT to be on CMHQ-ANNEX... CMHQ http://combathq.thegamers.net CMHQ-Annex http://cmhq.tzo.com Both now proud members of the Combat Mission WebRing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Captitalistdoginchina Posted May 19, 2000 Share Posted May 19, 2000 How do you clear minefields? Do you move your engineers onto a mine field and they do it themselves or what? CDIC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Scott Clinton Posted May 19, 2000 Share Posted May 19, 2000 To clear a mine field the engineer must have demo charges available (can't be done without demos right?) and then move them ADJACENT to the mine field. If you move them INTO the mine field then they may take casualies themselves IIRCC. ------------------ Please note: The above is solely the opinion of 'The Grumbling Grognard' and reflects no one else's views but his own. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black Sabot Posted May 19, 2000 Share Posted May 19, 2000 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Captitalistdoginchina: How do you clear minefields? CDIC<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Herd your prisoners into a group and march them thru it ------------------ "I do like to see the arms and legs fly" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike D Posted May 19, 2000 Share Posted May 19, 2000 Prisoners are worth more alive than they are dead in the victory calculations if I recall correctly. So using them to find / trip minefields may not be a good idea necessarily. Mikester out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black Sabot Posted May 19, 2000 Share Posted May 19, 2000 Mike, I hope you didn't think i was being serious ------------------ "I do like to see the arms and legs fly" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike D Posted May 19, 2000 Share Posted May 19, 2000 Black Sabot, No, I didn't, but others could. Thing is some people here don't get certain peoples sense of humor and/or understand English very well. Also lots of newbies that may have taken you seriously not knowing any better. So I just thought I'd mention it for those that didn't know. Mike [This message has been edited by Mike D (edited 05-19-2000).] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Big Time Software Posted May 19, 2000 Share Posted May 19, 2000 The AI shouldn't move its troops through known minefields. But I'll keep my eye out for that behavior in case there's a bug. Charles Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike_in_texas Posted May 19, 2000 Share Posted May 19, 2000 In my VoT game, I vividly recall the Tac AI re-ordering my units to avoid a newly discovered minefield. Actually, I intially didn't realize what was happening when I saw my men begin to deviate from the path I ordered them along. Upon playback, I realised what happened: my point half-squad triggered a mine, and the follow-up squads had their course re-plotted by the AI accordingly. I was quite impressed. Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Scott Clinton Posted May 20, 2000 Share Posted May 20, 2000 > The AI shouldn't move its troops through > known minefields. But I'll keep my eye out > for that behavior in case there's a bug. Don't spend too much time on it...like I said it was in the only cover nearby. So, perhaps the AI just chose the lesser of two evils. ------------------ Please note: The above is solely the opinion of 'The Grumbling Grognard' and reflects no one else's views but his own. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Big Time Software Posted May 20, 2000 Share Posted May 20, 2000 Scott, you might very well be correct here. I had a similar thing happen with barbed wire. The AI chose to move a unit through it, in spite of plenty uncontested ground on either side. Charles took a look at it and determined that the AI had, in that particular instance, decided that the safest route was to try and make it through the barbed wire (in woods) instead of moving through neighboring open ground. Unfortunately for the AI, I had a hidden HMG42 at about 100m from them. The entire squad, to a man, was wiped out in about 40 seconds. And some people think the HMG42 isn't deadly enough Steve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Dude Posted May 20, 2000 Share Posted May 20, 2000 SPOILER . . . . . . BTS, Just FYI, I too have seen the AI move infantry through the minefields after another unit had previously detonated them. Placed two minefields east of hill 198 in the scattered trees. First unit to enter was a 60mm mortar (!!), followed a turn or two later by an infantry squad. The mines definitely detonated when the mortar first triggered them. Of course, the area was being platered by my 81mm's firing on the TRP I had placed nearby, so maybe the AI thought charging through the fields to get out of the mortar fire was the correct decision. Great game. The Dude Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin Posted May 20, 2000 Share Posted May 20, 2000 While we're on the subject of mine fields... Is there any way you could take out some mines by using arty? If you had enough I would imagine it would detonate a lot of mines and perhaps uncover others. I really have no idea that's why I'm asking. HAVE A GOOD WEEKEND! DON'T DRINK AND DRIVE! Get high and fly home! ------------------ And if we abandon any platform, I can assure you it will not be the Macintosh. -Steve My website! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peterk Posted May 20, 2000 Share Posted May 20, 2000 Another minefield question: Is it possible for an engineer unit to _think_ that it's cleared a safe path through the mines when in reality it hasn't? My first time through VoT, I didn't really know how the engineers were supposed to deal with mines and I sort of guessed at the proper procedure. I had engineers on each side of the road advancing ahead of the Shermans to make sure the road was safe. They stumbled upon the minefield on the road so I moved one squad as close as I could to it (he was still off to side of the road under cover though - I may have forgotten to rotate him towards the minefield though) and just left him there for a turn or 2. The minefield disappeeared as I expected and I decided to move my Shermans past. The first one got through without any problems, but the second one got blasted. Kind of cool actually. p. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
von Lucke Posted May 20, 2000 Share Posted May 20, 2000 I had something similar happen: Marched an Engineer sqd up an down that same road because I just knew there had to be an AT minefield somewhere on it. Never found it --- with the Engineer. The Sherman I rolled down the supposedly clear road found it right quick tho! Is there something about AT mines that makes them harder for Infantry units to spot --- like maybe it takes more pressure/sq.in. to set 'em off, so a leg unit won't key 'em by walking over 'em? [This message has been edited by von Lucke (edited 05-20-2000).] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pcelt Posted May 21, 2000 Share Posted May 21, 2000 One other clarification re minefields------- is awareness of these affected in the same way as enemy unit info by the "fog of war" level selected. I presume yes? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Big Time Software Posted May 21, 2000 Share Posted May 21, 2000 OK, bunch of questions here Nope, artillery does not set off mines. In reality it would certainly detonate a few individual mines, but experience has show that artillery is not a good and safe means of neutralizing a minefield as a whole. AT mines can not be set off by footsloggers. They can be detected, but it is much harder since it usually takes a tank getting whacked first I am pretty sure that when a minefield is cleared it really is cleared. This is an abstraction, because in reality you would have only a very small path cleared, but we can't simulate that. What I think a couple of you guys saw is the difference between the Daisy Chain AT mines and those that are burried. My guess is that your engineers found the Daisy Chain (above ground) mines and missed the burried ones further down the road. Funny enough, even though I designed the scenario and placed the mines myself, I made this mistake once too Stve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snark Posted May 21, 2000 Share Posted May 21, 2000 Speaking of mines. I had an enemy mortar team lingering in a mine field of mine and take NO damage. No one had been thru that mine field before. This mortar team wanderd around at the center of the mine field (next to the marker ) avoiding fire from various sources, moved out of it then back into it then finally out of it again. This went on over a period of about 5 turns. Qusetions are: Can some mine fields be duds? Can you plat a mine field in the trees? (this mine field was in the trees, maybe thats why it didnt work) Is a mortar team small enough that they could be 'Lucky' and just missed them? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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