allied vs german force makeup in QB's

[easytarget]

I've recently been playing mostly the Germans in some QB's and got used to and liked the wide variety of force composition available.

I've just started a new QB PBEM where I've switched to the Allies and the first thing I observe in purchasing units is a dramatic reduction in force choices, especially in infantry.

For example, whereas I could set up a wide range of infantry forces with the Germans, with the allies, I appear to be stuck with a platoon made up of 3 rifle, 1 piat, 1 mortar.

This would not be the composition of this force if I had any choice in the matter.

I must be missing something here, because to me the selection for Germans appears to put them at an advantage to the Allies.

And that's to say nothing of the armor comparison, which is some ways is even worse.

With both sides in this engagement given 1500 pts, how does this work out as even for allies given the Germans appear, at least to me, to have better infantry and armor choices to spend their points on?

[Bruceov]

Two crack churchill VIII, a US parachute company (vet)and extra platoon of some kind 2 heavy machine guns a 76 antitank gun (vet) 2 81 mm FO (regular) 2 bazooks (Vet) and one 120mm FO regular

[easytarget]

and i'll take 2 vet jagdpanthers, 3 or 4 hmg42's, more infantry made up of smg's than would constitute your company of paras, 2 pak40's to your one 76 AT, a couple 81 morts, just about every german platoon has AT weaps(i might buy a couple shreks anyway), i'll take a nashorn and add more opportunity to take out your crack churchills instead of big arty (yeah, could be a mistake)

result: seems to me the germans still have more infantry capable of doing more damage - in an ME once all the fun has been had with arty and armor - all the germans have to do is exchange off the arty/armor and they stand a good chance of winning the infantry battle

but hey, you're post has given me an angle to pursue in my QB's - using airborne - i'll try it and see how it goes - thx

[ January 18, 2003, 11:07 AM: Message edited by: easytarget ]

[SgtMuhammed]

The discrepency that you notice in the game reflects the actual historic situation. The Germans had a ton of different unit TO&Es because of internal politics and changing military policy and fortune. Thus you have SS, Wehrmacht, Luftwaffe, Volksgrenadier, Volksturm, Fortress, etc. This lead to vast differences in their fighting capabilities and complicated an already failing supply system.

For the Allies the main concern was to rapidly expand the army for the conquest of Nazi Germany. The easiest and fastest way to do this was to make all the parts interchangable. One American infantry regiment was the same as another. This also became the case with the rest of the Allies as weapons and equipment became more standardized. This had the advantage of being more flexible (you could mix and match Allied units to an extent not possible in the Axis army) easier to supply and simpler to command.

So while the type of units may be less for the Allies you will find the capabilities to be about the same or better (try attacking an American company with a SMG armed VG unit).

[Firefly]

Originally posted by easytarget:

but hey, you're post has given me an angle to pursue in my QB's - using airborne - i'll try it and see how it goes - thx

Well if you're going to mix Churchills with US airborne stand by for the 'gamey' accusations . You could probably get away with using British Airborne as they did spend some time fighting as normal infantry in Normandy.

[easytarget]

thx for the replies

i'll see how the allies do in this QB - should be interesting - i was just initially dismayed by the seemingly severe limitation on choices as compared to the germans - i liked all the choices and combinations

as for gamey, these PBEM's are with my brother and we've already agreed you can buy anything you care to - as far as we're concerned we're still learning the game and anything you can select is available - which includes both tactics and units - the possibility of us buying and successfully utilizing units in a gamey way is slim

[ January 18, 2003, 04:05 PM: Message edited by: easytarget ]

[easytarget]

one additional comment

i realize it would be considered gamey, but for some us playing CM that's really not an issue - we're playing it at least some of the time (gasp) as just a game

to that end, it would be nice in purchasing to be able to tweak at a platoon level

e.g. buying an allied company sticks me with a piat and a mortar team whether i want them or not - what if i just want a whole bunch of rifle platoons and don't want to burn points on piats or mortars - no luck - all or nothing

[Dook]

You can buy US and French infantry platoons without zooks and mortars (although they are included when you buy a company).

As someone else mentioned, the strength of the allies was large numbers of nearly interchangeable parts. The American infantry, with its 12-man squads, stacks up quite well to any German infantry. I am still experimenting with Commonwealth infantry - they seem very fragile, but they're cheap and more mobile (MMG carriers, lighter mortars).

Part of the enjoyment of CM (for me, anyway) is making do with what you're given. I like playing very small games against the AI (with force and experience bonuses) and the AI choosing the forces because the AI always gives me something other than what I would prefer. More of a challenge that way.