Myles Keogh Posted March 30, 2018 Share Posted March 30, 2018 I am playing a scenario with several companies of American armored infantry in which every platoon has a 60mm mortar. When playing with regular American infantry, I usually take the 60mm mortars away from their platoons and place them near their company commander well to the rear. Once the platoon commanders are out-of-contact/sight, the mortars become "attached" to their company commander which enables them to always be on-call for arty requests. Yet, trying the above with an armored infantry company doesn't seem to work. Once the armored infantry platoon commanders were out-of-sight/contact then the mortars remained out-of-command & control regardless of how close they were to their company commander. Is this working as designed that the company commander of armored infantry company cannot exert C&C upon a mortar that is out-out-of-contact with its platoon HQ? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
General Liederkranz Posted March 30, 2018 Share Posted March 30, 2018 It seems weird if the mortars don't stay in C2 based on proximity to their company commander (voice/close visual). But the rules for calling indirect fire are different from the rules for C2--the mortars need a communications link with the platoon HQs calling the fire, not just with the company HQ. The problem here might be that armored infantry platoon HQs, unlike their regular counterparts, don't have radios. So the missing link wouldn't be between the mortars and the company HQ, but between the platoon HQs and the Company. Just a guess. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erwin Posted March 30, 2018 Share Posted March 30, 2018 You may need their vehicles which do have radios in proximity. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Myles Keogh Posted March 31, 2018 Author Share Posted March 31, 2018 3 hours ago, General Liederkranz said: It seems weird if the mortars don't stay in C2 based on proximity to their company commander (voice/close visual). But the rules for calling indirect fire are different from the rules for C2--the mortars need a communications link with the platoon HQs calling the fire, not just with the company HQ. The problem here might be that armored infantry platoon HQs, unlike their regular counterparts, don't have radios. So the missing link wouldn't be between the mortars and the company HQ, but between the platoon HQs and the Company. Just a guess. Thanks for the reply and explanation. That's most likely the reason: armored infantry platoon HQs don't have radios enabling them to keep in contact with company HQ. However, that raises another issue. Why don't US armored infantry platoon HQs have radios? Steven Zaloga stated that each armored infantry company had seven SCR-536 "handie-talkie" radios specifically for dismounted combat purposes with three being located with the company HQ and each platoon having one. So, either Zaloga or BF is incorrect. Having to keep the 60mm mortar tied to platoon HQ does limit its flexibility. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Myles Keogh Posted March 31, 2018 Author Share Posted March 31, 2018 (edited) Ok, now I am confused. Armored infantry platoons do have radios! (It's been a while since I played CM and remembered (or misremembered) when CM initially changed the TO&E for armored infantry by having their platoon HQs embedded in the 1st squad that they didn't have radios. So, either my memory is faulty (a possibility) or something was changed by patch or upgrade?) Anyway, I took a closer look at my current saved game and every armored infantry platoon HQ has a radio. (I also have a company of engineers whose platoon HQs don't have radios which probably added to my confusion.) So, my platoon HQs are able to stay in C&C with distant company HQs. So, it's now doubly confusing why armored infantry platoon mortars when out of C&C with their platoon HQ won't "attach" to their company HQs so I can use them as on-call arty assets like one can with a regular US infantry company. Edited March 31, 2018 by Myles Keogh 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akd Posted March 31, 2018 Share Posted March 31, 2018 (edited) Your memory on the Armored Rifle Platoon HQs is not faulty. It was an error that was corrected. Mortars have never been able to be in contact in the fire support menu by using the local, temporary C2 feature of an adjacent higher HQ. IIRC, they must either: 1. Have a good chain of C2 up through their normal chain of command to a higher HQ with a radio. In this case that would be the Platoon HQ. In other cases it might be the Section HQ. 2. Be equipped with a radio themselves. 3. Be located next to a vehicle with a radio. Basically, they cannot leap frog up to a higher HQ and take over their radio for fire missions. They either need to use their organic C2 structure to receive fire missions or poach a vehicle radio. Edited March 31, 2018 by akd 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
General Liederkranz Posted March 31, 2018 Share Posted March 31, 2018 3 hours ago, Myles Keogh said: Ok, now I am confused. Armored infantry platoons do have radios! Sorry to have misled you! I see that they do in CMFB. I've been playing CMFI a lot lately, where they don't, and wrote without realizing they now had radios in CMFB. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erwin Posted March 31, 2018 Share Posted March 31, 2018 18 hours ago, Erwin said: You may need their vehicles which do have radios in proximity. Have you tried this? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Myles Keogh Posted March 31, 2018 Author Share Posted March 31, 2018 5 hours ago, akd said: Your memory on the Armored Rifle Platoon HQs is not faulty. It was an error that was corrected. Mortars have never been able to be in contact in the fire support menu by using the local, temporary C2 feature of an adjacent higher HQ. IIRC, they must either: 1. Have a good chain of C2 up through their normal chain of command to a higher HQ with a radio. In this case that would be the Platoon HQ. In other cases it might be the Section HQ. 2. Be equipped with a radio themselves. 3. Be located next to a vehicle with a radio. Basically, they cannot leap frog up to a higher HQ and take over their radio for fire missions. They either need to use their organic C2 structure to receive fire missions or poach a vehicle radio. Thanks for info and the explanation. As stated, it's been awhile since I last played CM. So, it could be a memory mistake that led me to believe I could use the company HQ in this manner. I do remember being able to do it, but maybe I'm forgetting other factors involved such as having a radio jeep present. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Myles Keogh Posted March 31, 2018 Author Share Posted March 31, 2018 5 hours ago, General Liederkranz said: Sorry to have misled you! I see that they do in CMFB. I've been playing CMFI a lot lately, where they don't, and wrote without realizing they now had radios in CMFB. No problem. I should have taken a closer look myself prior to posting. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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