Guest Pillar Posted June 27, 2000 Share Posted June 27, 2000 Does anyone know and care to explain to me how a mortar works? I'm meaning mechanically in terms of how the projectile is launched and how they aim the thing initially. Thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KiloIndiaAlpha Posted June 27, 2000 Share Posted June 27, 2000 Rough and ready answer. The projectile has a propellant in its base, when it's dropped into the mortar tube it hits a spike in the bottom of the tube, this fires the propellant thus ejecting the projectile. The range is set by the angle the tube makes with the vertical, the max range being at approx 45 degrees to the vertical. (Incidentally for a given range there are two angles that will achieve that range) The direction of fire is simple, just point it. ------------------ A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
guachi Posted June 27, 2000 Share Posted June 27, 2000 Can't you also adjust range by adjusting the amount of propellant charges (i think they are called 'cheeses' or something similar)? Jason Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BorderBill Posted June 27, 2000 Share Posted June 27, 2000 Kilo thats a pretty good down and dirty answer. Actually most mortars 81mm and above use removable charge bags that allow you to change the propellant charge for various reasons. The primer is in the base of the round and the propellant bags are actually outside of the round itself between the fins and the main body of the round. Therefore, there are times at a given range where you can have multiple combinations of elevation and charge levels to hit your target. This allow mortars to hit targets on reverse slopes by using a high angle attack out to a reasonable distance. Or you can shoot a target at the same distance with a low angle to reduce the flight time of the round. This gives less time for the enemy to move out of the impact area between rounds. A good crew can fire one round high change the elevation and fire another round on a lower angle of attack and have both rounds impact almost simultaneously on target due to the difference in flight time. I have personally seen this done with both mortars and 105mm howitzers. Mortar setup and fire control procedures are a little more complex than most realize. One exception is the 60mm mortar which can be fired without the tripod in the handheld mode. You have a handle on the tube that allows you to place the buttplate on the ground and then you just lower or raise the barrel to change elevation and manually move right or left for deflection. A bubble level on the barrel has range markings corresponding to the approximate range the round will fire when held at that angle. This is only used when you have LOS to the target and need quick suppressive fire and is not near as accurate as using the tripod and calculated firing data. As you can tell I love mortars. As a former Infantry officer, I knew I could almost always count on the infantry's personal artillery when I needed it. Artillery is the "King" but like most kings is never available when you personally need him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neutral Party Posted June 27, 2000 Share Posted June 27, 2000 BorderBill thank you for that very informative post Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Pillar Posted June 27, 2000 Share Posted June 27, 2000 KiloIndiaAlpha and BorderBill: THANK YOU! I've been wondering about them for a while now. I thought it was a spring hammer at the bottom that was released by trigger to impact the botttom of the the round, which then ignited the round resetting the spring/hammer in the process. That's how a PIAT works apparently. Any of you know of a website that has more on mortars? I really really like them too Bill I wouldn't mind seeing one in action either! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redleg Posted June 27, 2000 Share Posted June 27, 2000 I always liked the M203 for very personal artillery. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BorderBill Posted June 27, 2000 Share Posted June 27, 2000 Pillar, the modern version of the 60mm does have a trigger mechanism on it. I don't think it really varies too much from the WW2 version but I won't lie to you -- I'm not positive. The 60mm mortar actually disappeared from standard US Army Infantry TO&E's for a number of years and was reintroduced with the increased emphasis on Light Infantry Divisions in the mid-eighties. The trigger can be set to a fixed position like the bigger mortars or manually operated for each shot. When used in the handheld mode the user usually uses the trigger for each shot; this allows him to drop the round in (which usually disturbs his aim), readjust his aim, and then fire the mortar. When in a fixed firing position with the tripod, a fixed firing pin position is used. As you explained, the trigger is recocked when the mortar is fired when using the trigger firing mode. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Pillar Posted June 27, 2000 Share Posted June 27, 2000 Argh, now I'm confused. What's the "spike" at the bottom? Is this the same as the plate? Does the mortar automatically ignite when it touches the "spike" if the trigger is in the fixed position? If so, how does the spike ignite the motor? Are there any moving parts inside a mortar besides the shell itself? At least I'm persistent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMC Posted June 27, 2000 Share Posted June 27, 2000 The spike is a firing pin inside the tube at the bottom. It sets of the primer which sets off the charge in the stem of the round that sets of the charge bags (or solid propellant "cheese" charges). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BorderBill Posted June 27, 2000 Share Posted June 27, 2000 OK, In most mortars, the firing pin is fixed inside at the bottom of the tube. When the round slides down the tube a primer in the base of the round strikes the firing pin and ignites the propellant charges. Therefore, you drop a round in, it slides to the bottom, and immediately fires itself. On the 60mm, you can elect to fire it in this traditional method or using a selector switch actually have the firing pin retracted so that the round does not make contact with the firing pin when you drop the round in. Then when you activate the trigger, the firing pin operates similiar to the firing pin in a rifle where the trigger spring slams the pin into the primer of the round. When the round fires, it resets the firing pin in the retracted position. All the larger mortars (81mm and above) usually have fixed firing pins. I believe there are some exceptions to this general rule (i.e. some Soviet era mortars). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobVarak Posted June 27, 2000 Share Posted June 27, 2000 Gentlemen, this is one outstanding thread! ------------------ Rob Varak Editor Site on Sound: The Web's Premier Site For Musical Discussion www.siteonsound.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Jenkins Posted June 27, 2000 Share Posted June 27, 2000 There is another way of firing the 60mm. The mortar men taught us about it. You load the round, brace the tube against a tree, and fire it almost horizontally. Only used during patrolling, and then only in emergencies. Also, if they think the position will be taken, they fire four rounds straight up on the maximum charge and run. The enemy gets the position, then they get creamed. ------------------ "Rinky dinky stinky thinky" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KiloIndiaAlpha Posted June 27, 2000 Share Posted June 27, 2000 The Japanese had a 'Knee Mortar' (50mm ?) but you couldn't actually fire it by resting it on your upper leg while kneeling as you would break it ( your leg not the mortar). ------------------ A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
:USERNAME: Posted June 27, 2000 Share Posted June 27, 2000 WWII Mortars were smoothbore weapons (with a few exceptions) and fired fin stabilized projectiles. This and the fact that the distance of its flight path (long even for short range targets) made it it very susceptible to wind errors. But being a non-spin stabilized projectile made its flight characteristics quiet and great for harrassing fires. Individual rounds fired at road junctions, dead zones, etc. could catch infantry unwares. Lewis Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Pillar Posted June 27, 2000 Share Posted June 27, 2000 Ok I'm clear on this whole mortar thing now Thanks for the info all of you. Turned out to be a really great discussion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Michael emrys Posted June 27, 2000 Share Posted June 27, 2000 One more thing (and bringing it back to WW II), the British 2" mortar had a trigger mechanism that permitted it to be fired in a nearly horizontal position. This was handy for lobbing rounds through windows etc. in city fighting. It may have been unique in having this feature during the WW II time period. I don't know if it is specifically modelled in CM. Michael Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dNorwood Posted June 27, 2000 Share Posted June 27, 2000 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by KiloIndiaAlpha: The range is set by the angle the tube makes with the vertical, the max range being at approx 45 degrees to the vertical. (Incidentally for a given range there are two angles that will achieve that range) <HR></BLOCKQUOTE> About the ballistics - that 45 degree result is definitely true if: a) there is no air drag, and both mortar and target are at the same elevation. If a shell moves slow enough, I might buy the air drag being a small effect, but elevation differences abound. Can any mortar crewmen set me straight about mortar ballistics? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KiloIndiaAlpha Posted June 27, 2000 Share Posted June 27, 2000 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by dNorwood: About the ballistics - that 45 degree result is definitely true if: a) there is no air drag, and both mortar and target are at the same elevation. If a shell moves slow enough, I might buy the air drag being a small effect, but elevation differences abound. Can any mortar crewmen set me straight about mortar ballistics?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Yes I know my bit was rough and ready. Drag would perhaps be a function of (velocity)^4 up to a limit and compounded by the active cross-section of the missile. (Which will vary) But this don't mean doodley if one lands next to you!! ------------------ Only the enemy in front, every other bugger behind. - unofficial motto of the British Infantry Reconnaissance Corps, W.W.II Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
waffen Posted June 27, 2000 Share Posted June 27, 2000 http://www.geocities.com/Augusta/8172/panzerfaust.htm hi there anyone interested in german wepons should drop in here .PIAT is also there in detail ,a very good read im sure you will enjoy cheers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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