Childress Posted October 1, 2016 Share Posted October 1, 2016 On 19-27 July 64, Rome was destroyed by a great fire: only four of its fourteen quarters remained intact. Untold thousands perished. Nero was held responsible by the Roman populace, a charge that was given substance by the emperor's subsequent urban renewal project that included the construction of his Domus Aurea- the Golden House (partially excavated). The vast palaceThis included lush artificial landscapes and a 30-meter-tall statue of himself . Suetonius and Cassius Dio claimed that the emperor played the lyre and sang in stage costume while the city burned. Nero, in turn, deflected the blame on the Christians, a proselytizing but tiny sect. The Roman historian Tacitus, who places Nero in Antium during the conflagration, was the first ancient author to mention Christ. He explains what happened: 'But all human efforts, all the lavish gifts of the emperor, and the propitiations of the gods, did not banish the sinister belief that the fire was the result of an order. Consequently, to get rid of the report, Nero fastened the guilt and inflicted the most exquisite tortures on a class hated for their abominations, called "Chrestians" by the populace. Christus, from whom the name had its origin, suffered the extreme penalty during the reign of Tiberius at the hands of one of our procurators, Pontius Pilate, and a most mischievous superstition, thus checked for the moment, again broke out not only in Judaea, the first source of the evil, but even in Rome, where all things hideous and shameful from every part of the world find their center and become popular. Accordingly, an arrest was first made of all who pleaded guilty; then, upon their information, an immense multitude was convicted, not so much of the crime of firing the city, as of hatred against mankind. Mockery of every sort was added to their deaths. Covered with the skins of beasts, they were torn by dogs and perished, or were nailed to crosses, or were doomed to the flames and burnt, to serve as a nightly illumination, when daylight had expired.' Modern historians refrain from inculpating Nero or the Christians. Given Rome's crowded narrow streets and rudimentary fire brigades, it was a disaster waiting to happen. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Kettler Posted October 7, 2016 Share Posted October 7, 2016 (edited) Childress, You got me again. Thought you meant the Great Chicago Fire. Most people these days think Nero fiddled while Rome burned. Turns out even the lyre is iffy. Roman fire brigades! An extortion operation in which they negotiate for the, er, fire sale of your home as it burns. Full marks for using "inculpate," something not ever seen by me before. Meanwhile, I'm happy to contribute my efforts to getting "gruntled" back into common use. Progress there. Thanks for another romp through the classics! Regards, John Kettler P.S. How I miss the halcyon days of the GDF! Edited October 7, 2016 by John Kettler 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Childress Posted October 28, 2016 Author Share Posted October 28, 2016 On 10/7/2016 at 3:37 PM, John Kettler said: Roman fire brigades! An extortion operation in which they negotiate for the, er, fire sale of your home as it burns. Right again, JK. That's how Crassus got as rich as, well, Crassus. Many years later Augustus turned the brigades into a more professional outfit. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Kettler Posted October 28, 2016 Share Posted October 28, 2016 (edited) While we're doing Roman stuff, I thought I'd share an anecdote from my days of playing Gladiators, a cool set of rules for doing that man-to-man with miniatures. We were at a game con, and having heard one of the other teams was scary, I decided to provide some of my own. I was campaigning a retiarius, a type I was really good with, and my friend, Don, had his obsessively needed Thracian. Two pairs would fight. While waiting for the other guys to arrive, I gave a quick, pertinent Latin lesson to Don. Spartacus fuit clarus servus qui habitabat in Capua. I then explained what it meant and had him commit that to memory. In come the presumptive top dogs, very much full of themselves. That abruptly ceased when I intoned the above, and Don, missing not a beat, replied "Spartacus was a famous slave (pause for effect) who lived in Capua." Pretty much unhinged them going in. Something to the effect of "They're speaking Latin. We're doomed!" Don won his fight (don't recall details), and despite some excitement early on, I anticipated the move of the Secutor, leg swept him with the net, then started gigging away until he caved. We took first! Still have the ribbon. Regarding the pic from a mosaic, most people don't realize that these fights were strictly refereed, at least in pair combat. What an exciting job if you wind up in the wrong place at the right time. Regards, John Kettler Edited October 29, 2016 by John Kettler 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Childress Posted November 8, 2016 Author Share Posted November 8, 2016 (edited) On 10/28/2016 at 4:19 PM, John Kettler said: Regarding the pic from a mosaic, most people don't realize that these fights were strictly refereed, at least in pair combat. What an exciting job if you wind up in the wrong place at the right time. 1 Re: the referee: very true, and never depicted in gladiator films. The chariot races in Circus Maximus were also strictly monitored to the point of imposing constant restarts, exasperating the 100,000 plus spectators. The fighter on the left appears to be a Retarius. Who's on the right? Though little remains, the Circus still ranks as the largest sports venue ever constructed. It seated 250,000 spectators. The Rolling Stones gave a concert there in 2014. Edited November 8, 2016 by Childress 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Kettler Posted November 8, 2016 Share Posted November 8, 2016 Childress, That would be the secutor, the standard foe for the retiarius. This will explain why. Regards, John Kettler 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Kettler Posted November 8, 2016 Share Posted November 8, 2016 (edited) Site burped when I posted, so I got it twice. Regards, John Kettler Edited November 8, 2016 by John Kettler 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Childress Posted November 17, 2016 Author Share Posted November 17, 2016 Great link from a great Ancient site, John. Quote: The terrible symmetry of gladiatorial combat can best be appreciated in this pairing. The strategy was for the secutor to attack his opponent, using the shield for protection. The retiarius, on the other hand, tried to keep his distance so he could swing his net and use the trident effectively, thrusting at both the head and legs of his pursuer. Unless the secutor could strike quickly, there was a danger of exhaustion from the heavier armor and, more importantly, the helmet's constriction on breathing. If the retiarius, on the other hand, could entangle the secutor or manage to close with his adversary, there was the chance to use the dagger, which can be seen in his left hand. Prizefighting attracted huge audiences in Rome as well. Curiously, weight categories were unknown. Participants fought in the nude and wore the caestus, a type of leather hand-wrap. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Kettler Posted November 18, 2016 Share Posted November 18, 2016 (edited) Childress, Was at a discount bookstore recently and was eyeing a small book on gladiators. My opinion of it dropped like a stone in free fall when I read the retiarius had no armor. What, then, are the galerus, protecting his shoulder and neck, and the manica, which protects his arm? Speaking of the manica, Trajan ordered it en masse after discovering the Dacian weapon called the falx was wreaking havoc on the sword arms of his legionaries. Regards, John Kettler Edited November 18, 2016 by John Kettler 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Childress Posted November 18, 2016 Author Share Posted November 18, 2016 27 minutes ago, John Kettler said: Was at a discount bookstore recently and was eyeing a small book on gladiators. My opinion of it dropped like a stone in free fall when I read the retiarius had no armor. What, then, are the galerus, protecting his shoulder and neck, and the manica, which protects his arm? You're a purist, John. I like that about you. A counsel: it's best you avoid the TV series, Spartacus: War of the Damned from Starz. And what's the bull doing lurking behind the boxers in the above image? An ancient threesome? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Kettler Posted November 18, 2016 Share Posted November 18, 2016 (edited) Childress, I've seen only a few minutes from the first Spartacus series (none from the second) and have several times encountered online and enjoyed some sequences with the luscious (swear she's hotter now than when she was Xena) Lucy Lawless, with or without female slaves in attendance! The production values looked impressive, but to date, I've seen no gladiatorial combat from it. Very funny about the bull, but it could be symbolic of the power of the boxers, a religious or even astrological reference. My droll side would argue, though, that it's a trained bull which will be set upon the boxers if they fail to fight with sufficient zeal! Regards, John Kettler Edited November 18, 2016 by John Kettler 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Childress Posted November 18, 2016 Author Share Posted November 18, 2016 (edited) One realistic detail in the Spartacus series was the depiction of board and dice games which the Romans adored. Spartacus sits down to play Latrunculi, a war game with chess aspects, against his Lanista (he wins). There's also a scene in which the actors engage in Tabula that with small alterations became our backgammon. The Emperor Claudius had a board affixed to his carriage and wrote a book on the game, now lost. Impromptu Tabula boards can be found engraved in stone among the ruins of Pompeii. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ludus_latrunculorum Edited November 18, 2016 by Childress 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Childress Posted November 21, 2016 Author Share Posted November 21, 2016 (edited) The recreation of the Carnutum amphitheater depicts a pair of gladiators with a referee. Also, check out a novel that features that city: Household Gods by Harry Turtledove. Highly recommended and exceedingly well researched. 'Nicole Gunther-Perrin is a modern young professional, proud of her legal skills but weary of the daily grind, of childcare, and of sexist coworkers and her deadbeat ex-husband. Then after one exceptionally awful day, she awakens to find herself in a different life, that of a widowed tavernkeeper on the Roman frontier around A.D. 170.Delighted at first, she quickly begins to realize that her new world is as complicated as her old one. Violence, dirt, and pain are everywhere; slavery is commonplace, gladiators kill for sport, and drunkenness is taken for granted. Yet, somehow, people manage to face life everyday with humor and goodwill.No quitter, Nicole manages to adapt, despite endless worry about the fate of her children "back" in the twentieth century. Then plague sweeps through Carnuntum, followed by brutal war. Amidst pain and loss on a level she had never imagined, Nicole must find reserved of the sort of strength she had never known.' https://www.amazon.com/Household-Gods-Judith-Tarr/dp/0812564669 Edited November 21, 2016 by Childress 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Kettler Posted November 22, 2016 Share Posted November 22, 2016 Childress, As usual, some great information. Will have to watch the video later. Did you know you can buy real ancient Roman dice for very little money on eBay? Lots of other Roman goodies (and not so, as in crucifixion nail) to be had there. Regards, John Kettler 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Childress Posted November 22, 2016 Author Share Posted November 22, 2016 Archeologists have come across numerous Roman dice (plural?) that were lead loaded to come up '6' at every roll. I have- or had- a fine selection of Roman coins including those of Vespasian, Augustus and Claudius. Until the maid vacuumed most of them into oblivion. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Kettler Posted November 22, 2016 Share Posted November 22, 2016 (edited) Childress, "Die" is one (in this case more or less) regular hexahedron, whereas "dice" are two or more. This is reflected in Julius Caesar's famous remark when crossing the Rubicon: "Alea iacta est." Clearly this is one, for otherwise wise it would read "aleae." This all makes perfect sense when you consider Fortuna was female--and notoriously fickle. As for your ancient money, what a horrifying thing to happen to a prized coin collection! Since presumably you didn't leave your numismatic joys on the floor, how ever did she manage to vacuum them up? Also, I can't help wondering how the Roman soldiers resolved the gustatory problem of rolling a "six," since it's an established fact that with six you get egg roll! Regards, John Kettler post scriptum After viewing all the eminently affordable (save for a really cool cavalry helmet) Roman goodies on eBay last night, I decided to pass the word to the good folk of the hardcore Roman reenactor group www.legionsix.org. Almost got to work on their torsion dart thrower, but things fell through. Theirs was a horribly under performing fecal deposit on "Mail Call," sad to say. In any event, there's a section on the beautiful site for Legion Six Valeria victrix with the group's lengthy TV, film and commercial cred, which is how I learned about this little gem. The purist in me, though, feels constrained to point out Roman military commanders rode horses, not chariots, into battle. Regards, John Kettler Edited November 22, 2016 by John Kettler 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Childress Posted November 22, 2016 Author Share Posted November 22, 2016 41 minutes ago, John Kettler said: As for your ancient money, what a horrifying thing to happen to a prized coin collection! Since presumably you didn't leave your numismatic joys on the floor, how ever did she manage to vacuum them up? I left the guys on a perilous shelf of furniture. The perp must have knocked them off with her vacuum cleaner then sucked them up into said appliance. Antoninus Pius survived- an emperor who died in bed. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Emrys Posted November 23, 2016 Share Posted November 23, 2016 I have a sinking feeling that this is going to turn out to be a horrendously stupid question, but why not simply take the vacuum cleaner apart and retrieve the coins? Michael 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Childress Posted November 23, 2016 Author Share Posted November 23, 2016 It was her VC. And, the loss passed unnoticed for a week. I doubt they were stolen, what was she supposed to do with the goods? Ebay is beyond her ken. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Kettler Posted November 24, 2016 Share Posted November 24, 2016 Childress, Decided to see whether Tumblr had anything useful on catapults. Since that was bust on page one at least, having found an array of things not martial, I turned to the ballista instead. Many not the weapon entries, but I did find two. The first is concerned with knives and relics, but it also gets into siege weapons--great pics (including what I believe was NOVA's full scale one talent ballista), coupled with grossly incorrect explanations of weapon principles. http://knivesrelicsandmore.tumblr.com/post/66869955221/siege-warfare-how-do-you-break-a-siege Regards, John Kettler 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Emrys Posted November 24, 2016 Share Posted November 24, 2016 14 hours ago, Childress said: It was her VC. And, the loss passed unnoticed for a week. I doubt they were stolen, what was she supposed to do with the goods? Ebay is beyond her ken. How big were the coins? Coins are usually dense enough that a vacuum cleaner (at least any that I am familiar with) would have a hard time sucking one up. I would also imagine that they would create a noticeable racket going up the tube. Michael 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Childress Posted November 24, 2016 Author Share Posted November 24, 2016 I thought the same. But all of the coins were denarii, the size of a dime. There were only six of 'em. My Asses were untouched. No wise remarks, pls. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Emrys Posted November 24, 2016 Share Posted November 24, 2016 6 hours ago, Childress said: My Asses were untouched. No wise remarks, pls. *snicker* Michael 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Childress Posted November 24, 2016 Author Share Posted November 24, 2016 I still have Vespasian's As. A burly fellow by all accounts. 'Decided to see whether Tumblr had anything useful on catapults. Since that was bust on page one at least, having found an array of things not martial, I turned to the ballista instead.' Good luck, John. But check with your neighbors first. And your Deed Restriction policy. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Childress Posted November 24, 2016 Author Share Posted November 24, 2016 (edited) The first confirmed gladiator cemetery was discovered by German archaeologists. Contrary to expectations, the fighters lived on a vegetarian diet. The lifespans tended to be short but with potential perks like riches and the adoration and availability of women, often aristocratic. And freedom. The oldest gladiator the researchers came across was aged fifty, apparently a matinee idol whose remains were interred in the middle of the graveyard along with a stone memorial. The gladiators' bones leave evidence of rather sophisticated surgery, sans anesthesia although opium was not unknown by Romans. They imported the analgesic from India where their coinage has been found. The much-revered emperor, Marcus Aurelius, was an alleged junky. https://www.phactual.com/the-first-recorded-opium-addict-the-roman-emperor-marcus-aurelius/ Edited November 24, 2016 by Childress 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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