LOS through the woods

[mbarbaric]

 

It already occured to me that sometimes units can see through the woods where you wouldn't expect them but recent mission really got me wondering how it works. 
 
The screenshots are taken from ATG position that is obviously overlooking a field i was deeming safe due to a forrested area.
 

 

however, the ATG got a nice shot into the side of my sherman knocking it out immediately.

 

 

Now is there any mechanics i dont know beneath? di he just take a pot shot at the sound contact and got really lucky?

 

and how do i make bigger screenshots???

Edited May 2, 2015 by mbarbaric

[delliejonut]

Its a little hard to tell what's going on in your screenshots. Typically, forests will mostly block line of sight. There's always a chance you'll be able to see through them though.

[Bulletpoint]

Targeting through trees seems wonky to me as well.

 

I think the problem is that what you see on your screen is not always what the game "sees" with its internal mechanisms.

 

It can be one of two things:

 

1: Try moving the camera to the position of the AT-gun, then zooming in towards your Sherman. Sometimes, you will find that when you zoom in, there's a tiny bit of the target visible. And as long as the AI can trace a line to just a single pixel of your tank, it can open fire.

 

2: Sometimes there will be nothing visible. In this case, I think that some parts of the tree graphics are actually translucent to the computer, but appear as solid branches to the player. In other words, the actual LOS-blocking part of the tree is a bit smaller than the tree graphics.

Edited May 3, 2015 by Bulletpoint

[womble]

Using the Zoom function from the shooter's position, and trees on can sometimes show you that what you thought was complete concealment actually wasn't. And then there's the aberrant and confusing times you get spotted through umpteen tree canopies. There are some edge cases where we don't know what's going on, and it does seem hinky.

[mbarbaric]

indeed it is strange and the example in the screenshots shows is taken from shooters position in the woods. but if you look the screenshots it is not that wood that hampers the ATG, it is two huge trees about 400 meters forward that lay between the gun and my tank. so the problem isn't the branches. it seems like two big trees are translucent from AI's point of view.

[womble]

indeed it is strange and the example in the screenshots shows is taken from shooters position in the woods. but if you look the screenshots it is not that wood that hampers the ATG, it is two huge trees about 400 meters forward that lay between the gun and my tank. so the problem isn't the branches. it seems like two big trees are translucent from AI's point of view.

Ah. No. Just because the ATG (low to the ground) can see some part of your tank (the lower part of the hull, say), doesn't mean your tank's commander and loader (the only guys able to look to the right) can see the ATG (because they're high up and the line from them to the ATG goes through the foliage. Also, there's no guarantee they actually see the ATG, especially if it's not moved since game start, and they're peering through the lower branches of those pine trees.

 

LOS != Spotted. Not by a long chalk. Even if your TC had an unimpeded view of the ATG, any concealment it has will reduce the chance of it being spotted, and it is a deliberate design decision that AFVs don't spot infantry weapons very well (because there was general acceptance that perhaps they had slightly too perceptive vision, and BFC adjusted it).

 

It's very important to realise that being at the edge of a patch of trees gives very little concealment in and of itself. From what I can see from your screenies, the result here is both to be expected in-game and representative of real life.

[mbarbaric]

i will have to go with bulletpoint's explanation as most likely in this scenario. 

 

2: Sometimes there will be nothing visible. In this case, I think that some parts of the tree graphics are actually translucent to the computer, but appear as solid branches to the player. In other words, the actual LOS-blocking part of the tree is a bit smaller than the tree graphics.

 

 

from ATG pov there should be only 2 big trees and he couldn't see any tank there. however, since they saw it, i guess it is somewhat less than perfect representation of foliage in this particular case.,

[Bulletpoint]

 

i will have to go with bulletpoint's explanation as most likely in this scenario. 

 

2: Sometimes there will be nothing visible. In this case, I think that some parts of the tree graphics are actually translucent to the computer, but appear as solid branches to the player. In other words, the actual LOS-blocking part of the tree is a bit smaller than the tree graphics.

 

 

from ATG pov there should be only 2 big trees and he couldn't see any tank there. however, since they saw it, i guess it is somewhat less than perfect representation of foliage in this particular case.,

 

 

To the player, a tree looks like a jagged, complex object, but to the game engine, I think it looks more like a box on a stick. And that box is a bit smaller than what we see as a tree.

 

At least that's my theory.

 

Level of Detail may also be influencing this. When you zoom in, you get a higher detailed tree, which might correspond better with the actual LOF.

 

If I'm correct about this, I wish BattleFront would either make the hitbox fit the trees better, or simply make the tree hitbox very slightly larger than the tree graphics. It could mean a few instances of not being able to target, despite being able to zoom in and see a tiny bit of the target visible, but I would prefer this and find it more realistic than being shot by enemies that should be blind.

Edited May 4, 2015 by Bulletpoint