Dar Posted September 16, 1999 Share Posted September 16, 1999 Great plan, Martin! No sense in exposing your men to long range fire from AFVs you can't hurt. You should be able to unleash a world of short-range, automatic hurt from cover when he moves up his infantry, and you've got enough AT teams to cover several avenues if he brings up any of the vehicles. I like it! I'm pullng for ya! Dar Steckelberg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
therontmoore Posted September 16, 1999 Share Posted September 16, 1999 This maybe a general question? I have been reading the battle reports (Allied only) daily, but I was wondering about this points for retreating off the town edge of the map. In an earlier post, it was mentioned that by escorting the German POW's and freed US MG POW's off the map gained Martin double points(or something to that affect). With the situation as it is (loss of most of his Shermans, low ammo, low morale), what would his points be if he began a fighting retreat from the town to the map edge ("hold at all costs" orders were rarely followed by US troops during WW2)? How would it affect his Global Morale? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moon Posted September 16, 1999 Share Posted September 16, 1999 I am not 100% sure about the effect of withdrawal on the global morale (Steve?), but actually the fighting withdrawal off map is my fall back plan if the Germans prove to be too strong. From what I heard form Steve, that way I might end up losing the game by a few points - but who cares if I win or not (I don't really, even losing with style is fun )! It was an incredible gaming experience and I want to end it realistically and not by desperately holding to the victory locations. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dano6 Posted September 16, 1999 Share Posted September 16, 1999 Moon, I'm not to worried about you having to move your forces off the map, as I believe that your forces hold the superior defensive positions. What I am curious about is, how far does fionn have to come into the town in order to cause a draw. This should be your main concern. How many given up victory locations results in a draw. Your defense should be set up to repell the attackers in order to achieve a victory, not a draw or a loss. You have had plenty of setup turns in order to place your defense so as not to have to pull back. You saw how that resulted when you attacked fionn. I feel that there is no way you should even consider falling back past the second row of houses. If positions are taken a reserve should be used to take them back instead of falling off the back of the map. dano6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moon Posted September 16, 1999 Share Posted September 16, 1999 Thanks Dano for your thoughts! I am very happy to discuss this stuff! <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>What I am curious about is, how far does fionn have to come into the town in order to cause a draw.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> That's difficult to answer, really, since it largely depends on his force strength. If he has weak forces when he enters the town (weaker than mine for example), he can come as far as he wants and won't gain any victory locations - he can only revert them to neutral, which will end in nobody earning the points for holding the flag. In that case, the game might end as draw or small victory for me. Right now, the victory level shown in the interface is something like 60% for me, 40% for Fionn. I'd have to ask Steve how this is calculated exactly, but it does give a rough estimate of the CURRENT situation. <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>This should be your main concern. How many given up victory locations results in a draw. Your defense should be set up to repell the attackers in order to achieve a victory, not a draw or a loss.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Correct - but there is no point I think in setting my forces up too much in front and let them being overrun one by one by four enemy platoons. The way victory locations in CM work, I do not have to be worried by some artificial "who moved last through this hex has the victory location" crap - if I have forces nearby to threaten to take back that VL, the flag won't go to Fionn! <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>You have had plenty of setup turns in order to place your defense so as not to have to pull back. You saw how that resulted when you attacked fionn.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> I think I have a much stronger force than he had at that point. I have six platoons in the town! And what I want to do is the classic fighting withdrawal - harrass them as they come closer, then fall back one platoon at a time to a second line... and so on. If, at one point, I see that their assault stalls, I will decide to counterattack or not. <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>I feel that there is no way you should even consider falling back past the second row of houses. If positions are taken a reserve should be used to take them back instead of falling off the back of the map.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Yep - that's what is going to happen IF Fionns forces prove relatively weak. I have no clue if his assaulting platoons are at full strength, half or whatever. If I see that they become pinned early etc. I am going to counterattack. If I see that his guys slice through the town like through butter, I will take whatever is left and run away. Forget my orders... I am not going to let ALL of my men die because of some freakin' orders Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doug Beman Posted September 16, 1999 Share Posted September 16, 1999 Martin, I really don't think you should move your infantry just yet. The Germans are close enough that you will either expose those troopers to close-range assault, or else spend so long moving them through the trees into the town's southwest corner that they'll be out of the main part of the fight for the town. Just my thoughts, DjB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moon Posted September 16, 1999 Share Posted September 16, 1999 Well, this platoon is no more... most of them are panicked or badly shaken and will be simply overrun without firing a shot I'd say (heh... I know since we're a FEW turns further with Fionn ) Next turn you will see that I was able to save a few nervous wrecks from what used to be a platoon, but lost a few guys as POWs... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doug Beman Posted September 17, 1999 Share Posted September 17, 1999 Martin, I had realized that you had as much room between your southern troops and the Germans as you did. I thought they were only a few dozen meters away, and so would jump all over a redeploy to the north. It seems they're far enough away that the infantry can redeploy without facing close-range small-arms fire. DjB [This message has been edited by Doug Beman (edited 09-16-99).] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Highlander Posted September 17, 1999 Share Posted September 17, 1999 Martin, In regard to your decisions about your southern platoons. I thought initially you planned on leaving them there and making the Germans fight through you. The Germans were crossing open ground and if you had stayed down until they closed the range you could have caused considerable casulaties to them. Now admittedly, you had bad luck on timing, that the artillery fell just as you started to move them, but I would think you could have hunkered down and waited for the Germans to come to you. I might understand some reluctance to fight it out after seeing you forces out east decimated, but these troops had cover behind them, and were only facing infantry approaching them. I'm just curious as to what made you decide to initially start withdrawing them. Scott Beall Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moon Posted September 17, 1999 Share Posted September 17, 1999 One very simple reason - these guys were toast The artillery barrage had killed one Platoon HQ, which resulted in the two squads panicking. The other platoon fared a little better, but was down to 3 or 4 men per squad after the barrage. Basically these guys have had it. Exposing them to a close range firefight in the woods would have ment a death sentence... I am going to ask Pat tomorrow to upload a force composition as of turn 30, so you'll be able to see in more detail what was left up there on the hill... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Highlander Posted September 17, 1999 Share Posted September 17, 1999 Martin, Sorry, I didn't make my question clear enough. I understand why you are withdrawing them now after losing the HQ and other men. My question was to why you started moving them in the first place, which led to the heavier casulties from the artillery? Scott Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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