Apocal Posted November 7, 1999 Author Share Posted November 7, 1999 Wasnt the MP44 supposed to be called the StG 44? I was watching a show on the History Channel and they talked about the evolution of rifles, from medevil times to the future. At first they used the the MP designation to get it past Hitler (because he liked MPs) then when he found out about it, he changed it to the Sturmgewehr '44. I don't know how accurate this is (even though it was off of the History Channel), and I know its a nitpick, but I'm curious to BTS's decisions (even nitpicks like this ) ------------------ "Battles are won by slaughter and maneuver. The greater the general, the more he contributes in maneuver, the less he demands in slaughter." Sir Winston Churchill Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fionn Posted November 7, 1999 Share Posted November 7, 1999 Actually that weapon was INITIALLY called the MP44 and later had its name changed to the StG 44 so both names are valid but at different times. ------------------ ___________ Fionn Kelly Manager of Historical Research, The Gamers Net - Gaming for Gamers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Apocal Posted November 8, 1999 Author Share Posted November 8, 1999 I wanted to know why BTS calls it a "MP44" instead of "StG44". I was playing the game yesterday and I just now noticed that the SS squads carried assault rifles and not a whole bunch of submachineguns (MP40 and MP44 blended together in my mind ). ------------------ "Battles are won by slaughter and maneuver. The greater the general, the more he contributes in maneuver, the less he demands in slaughter." Sir Winston Churchill Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fionn Posted November 8, 1999 Share Posted November 8, 1999 Well, I think most people remember it fondly as an MP43 and not a Sturmgewehr 44.. I prefer to think of it as a little MaschinenPistole than a Sturmgewehr ... And I call it the MP43 for some reason. It's 15 minutes to midnight so for the life of me I can't remember why I call it an MP43 and not an MP43.. Probably something to do with production orders: Here's something I wrote for my history site about it "Hitler’s decision to ban development and production of the maschinenkarabineren naturally shocked the army commanders, front-line commanders and their supporters but, as they did so many times during the latter years of Hitler’s reign, they decided to produce the maschinenkarabineren covertly. The undercover group adjudged the Haenel design (another of Schmeiser’s efforts) , the 7.92mm MKb 42(H), to be superior to the Walther’s. Conjointly with this they changed its designation to the MP 43 (Maschinenpistole 43) to deceive Der Fuhrer. This served a dual purpose of giving the front-line troops the weapons they wanted while delighting Hitler with the ever-increasing maschinenpistole production figures. It had a slightly longer barrel then the MKb 42(H) and weighed slightly more but was otherwise identical. These slight changes served to give a better balance to the weapon and also slightly greater accuracy. The weapon was a huge success and instantly popular with the troops. Hitler remained unaware of its production until, during a conference with young (and it must be said politically inexperienced) junior infantry commanders from the Eastern Front, he asked these junior officers what they most wanted more of. With a cringe factor of infinity for Speer and the Army High Command these officers acclaimed virtually in unison that they needed more of the specifically banned "assault rifles". It must have been a tremendously scary experience for those who had duped Hitler when he flew into one of his rages after hearing this. Ranting about those who had disobeyed him etc. Fortunately for them, this was prior to July 1944, and didn’t result in any marked unpleasantness. Eventually Hitler was persuaded to their viewpoint and production was expanded as well as a change in designation to the Sturmgewehr 44. Unfortunately, in part thanks to Hitler’s previous bias against the weapon, production never was sufficient to meet demand. Only some 80,000 rifles were made and, after the war, many of these were retained for use by the East German Border Police. The Sturmgewehr 44 was an outstanding weapon which led the way for much post-war rifle development. Just look at the AK-47 and then at the Sturmgewehr and note the obvious similarities to see what I mean. Despite its short, low-powered ammunition, its high rate of fire and greater accuracy than a sub-machinegun more than compensated. Several versions were produced including an infra-red scope-equipped version for night fighting and the unique Krummlauf design. " Characteristics were: Length 940 mm Barrel Length 419 mm Loaded Weight 5.22 Kg Muzzle Velocity 640 m/sec Magazine Capacity 30 rounds Max. Effective Range 400 metres Rate of Fire 500 rpm, cyclic. And here's a little data about the Krummlauf for those who are into weird and wacky inventions (with some utility i admit) "Krummlauf. This device consisted of a curved barrel attachment which, when fitted to the StG 44, allowed it to shoot around corners. The device was requested in order to permit infantrymen to shoot from cover without exposing themselves and also to allow the crew of a tank to fire downwards and cover what was usually "dead ground" and was depended upon by the infantry who tried to attach explosives to the tank. Development was undertaken by Haenel who, after extensive trials, found that a simple extension would turn the bullet through 30 degrees and deliver it accurately to the target up to a range of about 850 metres. The Krummlauf was first applied to the standard Gewehr 98 rifle; then it was tried with the MG34 but it was found that the deflection altered the recoil forces and this prevented the MG 34 from firing in fully automatic mode. It was finally fitted to the StG 43 since this fired shorter bullets which subjected the Krummlauf assembly to less strain when fired. In 1944 some 10,000 Krummlauf were ordered but it is doubtful if more than 1,000 were ever produced. Certainly they were not common or decisive. In addition to the infantry 30 degree model a special 90 degree model was developed for tank use. It was impossible to hand-hold this model and so it was mounted in a ball-joint which fitted into the tank armour. This version’s design was completed in 1945 but it appears that only a few Panther Ausf Gs and Tiger IIs were modified to accommodate it." I think the MP43 was due to when it was ordered but the MP44 was when it was first delivered. Nomenclature's always a bitch to explain ------------------ ___________ Fionn Kelly Manager of Historical Research, The Gamers Net - Gaming for Gamers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Big Time Software Posted November 8, 1999 Share Posted November 8, 1999 Apocal, MP44 is slightly more correct as the Sturmgewehr 44 designation wasn't adopted until late 1944. So for the earlier part of CM it was MP44. Plus, MP44 is what is stamped on my 30 round magazines Steve [This message has been edited by Big Time Software (edited 11-08-99).] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
guachi Posted November 8, 1999 Share Posted November 8, 1999 I have a book on combat guns that goes into the development of the MP43/MP44/StG44. Nothing much different from what Fionn has written but it does give the designation of the infrared night sight. It was appropriately named the Vampir. Jason Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JonS Posted November 9, 1999 Share Posted November 9, 1999 Grrr, a 'gun' is a piece of artillery, and at a stretch an MG. Not a rifle or other smallarm. An old army expresion used during basic training goes: "This is my rifle," (points to rifle) "This is my gun," (points to old-fella) "This is for fighting," (points to rifle again) "This is for fun!" (points to old-fella again) JonS ------------------ Quo Fas et Vino du Femme Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fionn Posted November 9, 1999 Share Posted November 9, 1999 Ah that sight was great.. I'd love to see it included just for fun in CM2.. The fun of being able to issue it to sharpshooters and watch them drop Red Army soldiers at 300 metres in pitch darkness would just be hard to beat ------------------ ___________ Fionn Kelly Manager of Historical Research, The Gamers Net - Gaming for Gamers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Los Posted November 9, 1999 Share Posted November 9, 1999 BTW another nice thing about the bridge is that you see a nice assortment of weapons for this little squad of boys. Between the seven of them they have two MG42s, an MP40, and STG44, and 3 Kar98s. Plus a few armloads of Panzerfausts. Los Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Apocal Posted November 9, 1999 Author Share Posted November 9, 1999 I guess I'm going to have to get used to mistaking a full-on assault rifle for an SMG (in case you guys haven't noticed, there isn't much difference between MP40 and MP44 ). ------------------ "Battles are won by slaughter and maneuver. The greater the general, the more he contributes in maneuver, the less he demands in slaughter." Sir Winston Churchill Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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