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To Vichy or Not

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There is a problem with DE 602 – if an unscrupulous Axis player chooses to NOT take Paris, even when every other city in Continental France has been captured and there is not a single French unit left in Continental France, until Algiers is captured, there is no point in Germany accepting Vichy. In fact, if the Axis 'plan' envisions NOT accepting Vichy then NOT capturing Paris until after Algiers is captured is a bad idea, in game terms. This is simply common sense from a game perspective, even if it violates reality in any reasonable sense.

Therefore, to avoid pure 'gameiness' of this sort, DE 602 should be amended. The offer of Vichy to Germany should happen once the majority of France is conquered OR the majority of French units are destroyed. A random aspect might be useful here. As it is clearly intended that a prolonged defence of France and French territories (such as Algiers) should take place if the majority of Continental France is conquered and Vichy is refused, then this DE should fire without Paris HAVING to be captured, as it is now scrupulously avoided. And having Paris avoided, even when all of the rest of France has been conquered, is just wrong.

For reference, here is DE 602:

DE 602 - Germany: Create Vichy France?

 Event fires: Once France has surrendered and Paris is in Axis hands.

 Cost of accepting: 0 MPPs

 Yes: The following countries are formed: Vichy France formed, as are Vichy Algeria, Tunisia, Syria, French West Africa, French Polynesia and French Equatorial Africa. French Polynesia receives a Corps. Germany is presented with DE 515, the UK with DE 100 and DE 101, while the USA is presented with DE 302.

 No: France continues to fight, with Algiers becoming her capital while she receives units in Algeria, French Polynesia, Noumea, and air units (a tactical bomber and a strategic bomber) manufactured in the USA. Free French units may also arrive at a higher percentage chance. Syria, French West Africa, French Equatorial Africa and French Polynesia will all swing 80-89% towards the Allies if Germany forces the surrender of France from Algiers. Once Algiers falls to the Axis, Germany is presented with DE 603.

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Hi Ludi1867 :) ,

- It's true it seems a bit gamey but there are ways around though the main problem is UK can't send much support in North Africa in that case because all allied foreign units there will be "interned" when Germans take Paris.

- On the other hand not taking Paris cost MPPs to Hitler and delay his preparations for Barbarossa. With those "extra" MPPs (hey, Paris' still worth 20 MPPs ^^) France can transfer surviving metropolitan units (especially the tank if still alive) to North Africa and "force" a Vichy by delaying Axis capture of Algiers.

- However it's true a bit more randomness in the Vichy event to add some uncertainty could be interesting.

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Hi Layabout

While I welcome your enthusiasm, and certainly agree that NOT having Paris does cost the Axis a few MPP, there is a negative downside to DE 602 NOT being offered (as it will likely be rejected) to the Axis until Algiers falls. While you will, I am sure, never get into this situation, it is all too possible (as I have learned from personal experience) for the Allied player to not only be in trouble in continental France (ultimately everything but Paris captured), but Italian units start moving towards Algiers as well. The fall of Sousse is a bad sign, but when Tunis is aggressively captured then it is clear that things are going badly for the Allies. At this point – with Tunis captured and all of France – except, of course, Paris – in trouble, the Allies SHOULD have some options. Perhaps FRANCE should be given the ability to offer Vichy to the Germans if Tunis falls and France is in serious trouble? The benefit would be, if Germany rejects DE 602 at this point, that the capital is in Algiers AND THE FRENCH get several units (as well as the possibility of having units in the production queue arriving more quickly, if I read DE 602 correctly). These are useful benefits to the Allied player when things are looking very bad for the French. Currently the Axis player can completely AVOID DE 602 by holding off on capturing Paris until Algiers is captured. Now, this may never happen if the Allied player is skilful (clearly, I am NOT skilful enough), but the status quo, that allows the Axis player to completely avoid DE 602 if he is unscrupulous enough, is not reasonable.

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Hi again :) ,

- I agree and another point I forgot is that not capturing Paris prevents the capital from being transfered to Bordeaux which ruins a bit historical flavour.

- One solution would be to tie the Vichy event to french NM instead of Paris capture. Once french NM falls below some critical point (say 50) the Vichy will fire or have a high probability to each turn.

- That would bring several interesting twists to the game:

1) french players would have to be a bit more cautious with french navy as losing ships could lead to a quick NM fall

2) it will make it more interesting for UK to send units in France to delay the NM fall

3) Paris will still be a major factor in the campaign but not decisive as if most of french army and territory are out Vichy will kick in.


- Otherwise an event could also be created leaving the choice to the french player when Germans are adjacent to Paris at the end of an allied turn:

"Would you like to declare Paris an open city ?"

YES = big fall of french NM morale (say 25%)

(whatever happened before, France should be well below the above 50% Vichy trigger with that)

NO = well you'll have to fight to the end huhu


- To help a bit if it happens again in your games maybe you can consider leaving the french units in North Africa there to entrench and delay Italians (the tunisian pop unit and the Algiers one).

- Another possibility is to send one british division down there to help. Even if Vichy is declared and your unit is interned you won't lose much as long as it is in good supply 5 or above (buy back at half-price).

- Or you can just use the french tank to attack Tripoli with some UK help hahaha ^^ !

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