Preacher Posted October 15, 1999 Share Posted October 15, 1999 Is there a way in CM to move tanks and infantry together? In ASL (i know, this ain't ASL!) you can move a squad (or HS) along with armor in close mutual support (ASL calls this armored assault). With differing mvmt speeds (i assume tanks and infantry move at different speeds), how can this - or something akin to it - be accomplished? Thanks in advance. Preacher Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Big Time Software Posted October 15, 1999 Share Posted October 15, 1999 Vehicles can be ordered to move at infantry speed. But close coordination of armor and "crunchies" (even in today's armies) is VERY difficult. Expect that the unexpected will screw up any nice coordination you have going into the problem What seperates a good commanders (and units) from the bad is how much a given situation screws things up. Steve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fionn Posted October 15, 1999 Share Posted October 15, 1999 Preacher, the MOVE command will walk infantry forward and cause tanks to move forward at a walking pace thus maintaining spacing and distance BUT of course the whole aim of the enemy when facing a tank-led assault is to strip it of its infantry component and take it out ASAP. ------------------ ___________ Fionn Kelly Manager of Historical Research, The Gamers Net - Gaming for Gamers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Preacher Posted October 15, 1999 Author Share Posted October 15, 1999 True, Fionn. But there's nothing like a little mobile cover Preacher Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fionn Posted October 15, 1999 Share Posted October 15, 1999 Leutnant von Kelly stirs in his sleep.. "Hmm.. mobile cover.... NO !! Artillery.. AH!! .. NO.. JABOS. JABOS EVERYWHERE !!" Wakes up screaming.. Actually the best sort of cover for such a movement is a nice HE bombardment on the enemy positions although I'm personally thinking that some of the mobile Flakvierling constructions (on trucks and HTs) would make wonderful fire bases ------------------ ___________ Fionn Kelly Manager of Historical Research, The Gamers Net - Gaming for Gamers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Big Time Software Posted October 15, 1999 Share Posted October 15, 1999 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>some of the mobile Flakvierling constructions (on trucks and HTs) would make wonderful fire bases <HR></BLOCKQUOTE> You'll find out soon enough. Sd Kfz 7/1 and 7/2 are coming up shortly... Charles Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Big Time Software Posted October 15, 1999 Share Posted October 15, 1999 And He looked upon them and smiled, for they art really cool looking Probably will do up the SdKfz 7/1 next week and snap a screenshot of it for you. This is the one with the quad 20mm AA mounted on it. Steve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike D Posted October 15, 1999 Share Posted October 15, 1999 Sd Kfz 7/1 ===> aka Wirbelwind ??? (Quad 20mm) Sd Kfz 7/2 ===> aka Ostwind ??? (1x 37mm) I've been reading recently how the Germans used the Wirbelwinds not only for AAA defense, but also as close support infantry weapons during the Battle of the Buldge and later. Must have been devastating to allied infantry units to have one of these suckers open up on them! Also, how prevalent were these in front line units? I seem to find very little, if any, ref. to the Germans using the Wirblewind and Ostwind vehicles much (which I assume means they didn't have them) prior to the very late months of 1944. When were they introduced to combat units in the German army? In any event, it will be very cool to have these units in the game! Regards, Mike D aka Mikester [This message has been edited by Mike D (edited 10-15-99).] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fionn Posted October 15, 1999 Share Posted October 15, 1999 Mike the Wirbelwind's were very rare. The ones you are refering to are conversions mounted on tank chassis. The Sdkfzs were conversions of heavy halftracks to the AAA role. They were much more common although obviously not hugely common. There are numerous cases of those AAA HTs being used as anti-personnel weapons. ------------------ ___________ Fionn Kelly Manager of Historical Research, The Gamers Net - Gaming for Gamers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike D Posted October 15, 1999 Share Posted October 15, 1999 Fionn, I don't know that they were that rare, but most certainly not common place. Order of Battle for the 501 SS Schwere Panzer Abteilung I've recently read seemed to indicate that they had one or two platoons of Wirbelwinds for this battalion going into the Herbstnebel (Battle of the Buldge) operation. Mostly I think they were attached to armored battalions and regiments starting late in 1944. Not sure if any PanzerGrenadier, or other formations ever got any. As far as being built on a tank chassis I believe you are correct there. I know the Wirbelwind was built on a PzKw IV chassis. As was the Ostwind if I'm not mistaken. Mike D aka Mikester Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike D Posted October 15, 1999 Share Posted October 15, 1999 Actually I just checked. It was 1 platoon of 4 Wirbelwinds and 1 platoon of 4 Ostwinds. Mike D aka Mikester Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fionn Posted October 16, 1999 Share Posted October 16, 1999 Mike, The answer to your rarity question is contained in your own post. The 501st Schwere Panzer Abteilung and all other Schwere Panzer Abteilung got first pick of cool new equipment. How many King Tigers were present in Volkssturm divisions? None. How many in Schwere Panzer Abteilung? Lots . They were very rare. IIRC something like 35 Wirbelwinds were produced and a similar number of Ostwinds ------------------ ___________ Fionn Kelly Manager of Historical Research, The Gamers Net - Gaming for Gamers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doug Beman Posted October 16, 1999 Share Posted October 16, 1999 Instead of "crunchies" shouldn't infantry be called "squishies?" DjB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Apocal Posted October 16, 1999 Share Posted October 16, 1999 Bones dont squish. ------------------ "Battles are won by slaughter and maneuver. The greater the general, the more he contributes in maneuver, the less he demands in slaughter." Sir Winston Churchill Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fionn Posted October 16, 1999 Share Posted October 16, 1999 GIs, crunchy on the outside, soft and chewy on the inside. ( a rip-off of a chocolate bar add on this side of the Atlantic). ------------------ ___________ Fionn Kelly Manager of Historical Research, The Gamers Net - Gaming for Gamers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Lokesa Posted October 16, 1999 Share Posted October 16, 1999 And the award for the most tastless/awful joke goes to....... Fionn. Lets have a big round of applause seriously though, that was pretty bad... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Big Time Software Posted October 16, 1999 Share Posted October 16, 1999 Best take off on that slogan was a Gary Larson comic. Showed two Polar Bears bending over an igaloo. The top was busted off and one Polar bear, with paw inside the igaloo and something obviously in his mouth, says to the other, "you gotta try these. They are crunchy on the outside and soft on the inside" To get back on topic... Wirbilwinds, Ostwinds, and Möbelwagens (all mounted on the PzIV chasis) were VERY rare. They were also employed in very small numbers (like pairs I think) for specialized units. In any case, what you see on TO&Es very rarely was the case in the latter years of the war. Sometimes they would have x vehicles of y type and there wouldn't be even one of y type. Whatever was similar would be jammed in there, but the TO&E stated would remain the "official" composition. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike D Posted October 17, 1999 Share Posted October 17, 1999 Fionn and Steve, I went and did a little investigating about the Wirbelwind and it would appear that you guys are once again correct. I found the following at a site called www.achtungpanzer.com "Wirbelwind and Ostwind were fitted with very similar (especially designed) open-top (Wirbelwind's turret had 9 side panels and Ostwind's had 6 side panels) turrets mounted in the place of standard turrets. Main difference was that Wirbelwind was armed with quadruple 20mm Flak 38 L/112.5 guns while Ostwind was armed with single 37mm Flak 43 L/89 gun (both could be used against ground targets as well). 20mm Flak proved to be less effective than 37mm Flak and was eventually replaced by it. Both were produced by Ostbau Works in Sagan, Silesia in limited numbers due to the material shortages and the fact that Ostbau Works moved to facilities of Deutsche Eisenwerke in Teplitz and Duisburg due to danger of being overrun by the Soviets. Overall from May to November of 1944, only 87(105) Wirbelwinds were made, contrary to only 44(43) Ostwinds produced from July 1944 to March of 1945. Both vehicles were issued to Flugabwehrzug (AA platoons) units of Panzer Divisions. There were never enough of them to equip frontline units, which were in the need for adequate mobile AA defense. Both proved to be very effective against low flying aircraft. The interesting fact is that prototype Ostwind was combat tested by 1st Waffen SS Panzer Division "Leibstandarte SS Adolf Hitler" during the Ardennes Offensive (December 16 to 22 of 1944) and returned to factory undamaged." This is a fantastic web site by the way with some good pictures and even sketches of German super tanks that never got off the drawing board. Anyone interested in WWII German armor should check it out! Mike D aka Mikester Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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