Unmanned Vehicles

[Alan8325]

Here is a short list of some modern unmanned vehicles, some experimental, that will be used increasingly in any near future war. Especially interesting is BAE's "Black Knight" light unmanned tank currently in testing. Those that are currently in use such as the MQ-8, MQ9 and Talon Swords I would fully expect to be included as part of U.S. kit in any near future conflict and should be included in CMSF2 if possible.

http://interestingengineering.com/index.php/top-10-unmanned-military-vehicles/

[Erwin]

You know how some folks love ancients, and some like men o' war, and some like Napoleonics...

I predict that the majority of the folks who like WW2 and tanks and conventional conflicts are not going to "get" next generation warfare.

Not that it isn't interesting. But, so are some sci-fi games...

[Alan8325]

True, there are some people who don't even like modern era combat at all. I'm a fan of modern combat, however I still believe you have to be careful when projecting current experimental technology as actively deployed in a near future-set military sim as to not get into the "space lobsters" sci-fi region in the game setting. I think two to three years in the future is about all they should go while keeping with a military simulation type of game. Any further than that and it might as well be speculation and sci-fi as to what types of equipment we see. With that said, anything that we see in active duty at this point in time should be included in a near future-set game and there are many unmanned vehicles currently in use, including in the combat role.

[Erwin]

The other issue is what sort of map size would a UAV patrol over. I reckon a UAV would have a hard time turning in order to even stay on a typical CM2 map.

And if you're saying that the UAV could be a few miles away using its zoom lens that can read a number plate on a car at 10+ miles away, then what about space-based satellites that reputedly can do the same. Would we see a window showing a TV image of what the UAV or satellite can see - and then we could just order a tomahawk or aircraft missile to take out the target - just like in RL.

My concern is that I do not see a use for these high tech systems in a "miniatures-like" GAME in which people like "pushing" tanks and squads around.

However, if you can describe the how the gameplay of such a scenario would be experienced by a player, it would be interesting.

[Alan8325]

UAVs (aerial) used in the close support role can be simulated in CM in the same way that manned air support is currently simulated. A forward air control unit calls an area or point strike mission and the off-screen "unit" that arrives is an MQ-9 rather than an F-16. Same type of Hellfire missile or GPS guided bomb falls on the target.

The new functionality that they would have to add to make UAVs authentic is real-time spotting ability. A modern battlefield has micro-UAVs up to MQ-9s relaying information to controllers on the ground which have C2 links to the troops. Micro-UAVs are directly controlled by the combat troops and would have to remain in contact to function. To my knowledge they have to remain within a few hundred meters of the controller. I'm guessing that rather than give the player direct control of a micro-UAV it would be fully under TAC AI control. The player would probably select an option to launch the UAV and select an action spot and then the TAC AI would launch and control the UAV in a loitering pattern.

Ground unmanned vehicles like the SWORDS also have to stay relatively close to the controller but I'm not certain what their communication range is. New functionality to CMx2 would have to be added here too to allow for one 'unit' to remotely control another 'unit.' It would probably be some type of conditional relationship where the player has control of the unmanned unit just as if it were 'manned' as long as it is within effective communications distance from the controller and the controller is alive and unsuppressed.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foster-Miller_TALON

[Erwin]

So HOW will it play out during a battle?

If it functions "in the same way that manned air support is currently simulated" then what is the difference?

It would be very helpful if you can describe a single typical one minute turn explaining precisely how these UAV's would function that is different from the way air support is depicted now.

[Alan8325]

It would be very helpful if you can describe a single typical one minute turn explaining precisely how these UAV's would function that is different from the way air support is depicted now.

The scenario briefing mentions an MQ-9 is in support of the mission gathering intel. The player starts the scenario and has significant pre-battle intel showing some locations of enemy contacts with '?' symbol (already included feature). After starting the scenario, the player gets these '?' contacts updated as the UAV spots more contacts and previously spotted contacts move (new feature).

Some of the infantry units in the scenario also have micro-UAVs. A unit with a micro-UAV is on the roof of a building and the player wants to see behind some buildings on a street where he has no LOS. The player clicks on the unit and selects a new "launch UAV" button, or maybe it's just the "deploy weapon" button already there, and then selects an action spot within range, say 200 meters (new feature or maybe not). The unit, as long as it is unsuppressed, will have one member showing a new animation throwing the UAV. Then the UAV will fly over to the selected action spot and loiter between action spots, controlled by the TAC AI while one member of the controlling team is listed as "controlling" while the others are "spotting" (new feature). Enemy units spotted by the UAV are effectively spotted by the controlling team so if you click on that team you see the contacts spotted by the UAV. Perhaps clicking on "deploy weapon" again would instruct the UAV to return to the team that launched it.

As for ground unmanned vehicles, they would be controlled by the player just like any other unit under the conditions that the "controlling" unit is alive and unsuppressed and the UGV is within range (new feature). Enemy units spotted by the UGV would also be "spotted" by the controlling unit.

[Erwin]

Would you also have possible jamming of the UAV by the enemy, or even them taking control and using it vs friendlies?

Presumably the UAV would not be any better at spotting enemies hiding in buildings.

To spot guys hiding on rooftops or in streets I currently I use helicopters with a wide area fire command. I still am unclear what extra info your UAV's would provide over the current helicopter option. I suppose that the only difference is that helicopters are seen firing at unseen targets.

It's not that I am against the concept. But, I would be very surprised if this were a priority for BFC when there are so many other much more urgent issues to fix.

[Alan8325]

The Switchblade is a "kamikaze" UAV that is currently deployed in Afghanistan, is getting good reviews and could be expected in any near-future war. I would think that some functionality for this is already in the CM engine for the Javelin, as the Switchblade can also be used as basically a guided explosive warhead that flies up, then out towards the target, then down onto it. According to Wikipedia explosive payload is about the same as a hand grenade. New functionality would still have to be added to CM for loitering and spotting ability.

http://www.wired.com/dangerroom/2013/03/switchblade-afghanistan/