Pirate Bill Posted October 27, 1999 Share Posted October 27, 1999 How bout the Mac demo? Aren't all the problems currently on the Windows side? Maybe it's not good form, but releasing the Mac demo now will prevent at least 413 cases of scitzophrenia [This message has been edited by Pirate Bill (edited 10-26-99).] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davidh Posted October 27, 1999 Share Posted October 27, 1999 My thought exactly. If the Mac version is ready, how about releasing it? Not to start a fight amongst the battlefront.com folks, but I note that MajorH didn't hesitate to release his version of TacOps3 for Windows first rather than waiting for the Mac version to be ready. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest John Maragoudakis Posted October 27, 1999 Share Posted October 27, 1999 (Slowly raising my 45) Ain't nobody getting out unless there's enough life boats for everyone. Back, all of you or I'll shoot you like dogs. [This message has been edited by John Maragoudakis (edited 10-26-99).] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest PeterNZ Posted October 27, 1999 Share Posted October 27, 1999 And if he don't get ya, then i will! in honesty, i could handle seeing the mac demo out first as long as i had a definite idea when the windows demo was coming. My guess is that it will be within a week easy, since Steve said that it had been delayed a week due to API stuff, programming stuff, and that it would have been out already had this not been the case. So deduction is that it's out before this time next week, maybe sooner if the guys want to have a relaxing weekend eh? PeterNZ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Tom punkrawk Posted October 27, 1999 Share Posted October 27, 1999 haha John I recently thought about something...let's stop pestering them about the demo! I mean it's just distracting them more.How about we just make another time consuming topic like the last couple months,like umm..what games has everyone been playing while waiting?I've been playing CC3(the demo of course,'cause I'm a poor bastard right at the moment),started playing Diablo again...what a flash back(not very war related,but it's variety) and Chain Of Command ------------------ We ain't got no place to go,let's go to a punk rawk show Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest MajorH Posted October 27, 1999 Share Posted October 27, 1999 Company ... TenHut! You there ... over in the corner ... eyes front and get them heels together! Awright ... I didn't want to have to be this way but I'm tired of all the grousing. Steve and Charles gave me youse guys until the Combat Mission demo is ready. Now get over to the download area and draw your TacOps field issue. Run it once day and don't forget to turn in your SITREPS. Platoon sergeants see the Company Gunny for ammo and rations. Fall out .... Hup, Hup, Hup, .... ------------------ Best regards, Major H majorh1@aol.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest PeterNZ Posted October 27, 1999 Share Posted October 27, 1999 Downloaded the demo SIR! got confused SIR! don't know anything about modern stuff SIR! can we have CM now? hehe just kidding. I thought TacOps was great. But i really know didly about modern stuff.. and feel scared at the thought of learning. Maybe i will do so over summer when i'm not supposed to be studying for my exams PeterNZ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Oberly Posted October 27, 1999 Share Posted October 27, 1999 LMAO,John! Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomas Davie Posted October 27, 1999 Share Posted October 27, 1999 PeterNZ: Although TacOPs might be a little bit hard to get into at first, you might try easing your way in by downloading the Steel Panthers 2 demo. Covers roughly the same subject matter as does TacOPs, but in my opinion less well. Confused? You thought you were confused? First time I downloaded the TacOPs demo a few years ago, I setup all of my units with a nice clear field of fire to what I thought were the approaches that the OpFor would take. WHAM! Arty rains down. I die. However, TacOPs takes an approach to wargaming that I think is underappreciated. I hope that this will allow the development of Panzers East Tom Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest PeterNZ Posted October 27, 1999 Share Posted October 27, 1999 actually, i wasn't THAT confused, I exagerate a tinsy bit sometimes I managed to play about 30 turns i guess, where the opfor is trying to run west across the map. Hadn't read the manual or anything but managed to take out some 20 or 30 unit tiles i think for the loss of some 4 m1a2 tiles.. ouch.. damn bmps' and their rows of AT missiles (I think! ). Had arty blasting away and and planes zooming around, was cool. Still, i need to read the manual! PeterNZ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest John Pender Posted October 27, 1999 Share Posted October 27, 1999 Answers to the question when the demo will be released. 10-18 VERY soon. Would have been sooner, but MS APIs cost us another day. Seems that if you use a custom cursor (of at least a certain size) it doesn't work very well, even though it is supposed to. (sigh) what else is new... Good news is technically we are ready. Just need to do a few more things before release. My reaction, cool we will be playing the demo in the next few days. Yahoooooo!!!! 10-19 Can't give you an exact date, but it won't be in a day or two. However, I will make a semi-cryptic post (with link) on this BBS to tip you guys off before anybody else. We feel strongly that you guys should get a shot at the download before the unwashed masses do You'll all know the post when you see it My reaction, cool we will be playing the demo in three or four days. Yahoooooo!!!!! 10-26 New question. Steve when (just an honest estimate). Are we talking hours, days, weeks? Please be honest even conservative we can take it. Take care John Pender Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Big Time Software Posted October 27, 1999 Share Posted October 27, 1999 John, starts with a "D" Steve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest John Pender Posted October 27, 1999 Share Posted October 27, 1999 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Rock Posted October 27, 1999 Share Posted October 27, 1999 PeterNZ: modern stuff is easy. Rule #1: everything is lethal. That's it really. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Rock Posted October 27, 1999 Share Posted October 27, 1999 OK, while on the subject of modern mech combat... This is well-off topic of course, but a) it fills time until the demo, I love TacOps and modern equipment. The following is a quick guide, for the uninitiated, to a few modern weapons systems in TacOps . All gross generalisations (of which there are many) and errors are mine: +++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Modern mechanised combat is not all that different from WWII - a few new weapon systems, more lethal munitions, and longer ranges, but a good WWII wargamer can make the transition pretty quickly. In TacOps the OPFOR (think: Russian) stuff is presumed to be up-to-date and lethal: modern fire control systems &thermal sights in tanks, improved warheads in ATGMs (anti tank guided missles for the WWII fixated ) and so on. So the following generalisations pretty much apply to both sides. (Incidentally you can "de-tune" the OPFOR stuff if you want to play with a more realistic Russian fitout. Fun, but a lot easier. Recommened for real newbies.) A few comments on some modern battle systems - again, conceptually not really very different from WWII. +++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Tanks: the beasts we all know and love. Strengths: immune to small arms and most artillery, good ROF. Weaknesses: to other tanks (surprise, surprise), ATGMs, inf AT weapons, killing power against tanks declines with range. Typical units: Blue: M1A2 Abrams (remember Desert Storm?); OPFOR: T80 Summary: substitute AT guns for ATGMS and it's pretty much like WWII, with the M1A2 having the edge on the T80. For real fun give the OPFOR T72s - better still Iraqi T72s for a pure turkey shoot. +++++++++++++++++++++++++++ APCs (armored personnel vehicles): battle taxis Strengths: transport for the infantry (duh), some fire support (MGs) for inf Weaknesses: armor you can punch a buring cigarette through Typical units: Blue: M113s; OPFOR: BTR80s +++++++++++++++++++++++++++ IFVs (Infantry Fighting Vehicles): descendents of the APC, and before that the halftrack; basically battle taxis but with more firepower (guns and ATGMs) Strengths: almost up to APC inf carrying capacity, guns/MGs good fire support (25mm chain gun on M2/3; 30mm cannon on BMP2/3) against infantry and thin skinned vehicles, ATGMs will kill tanks at longer ranges that tanks can fire at. Weaknesses: armor is pretty thin, and just about anything can (and will) kill them at close ranges; ATGMs take some time to reload Typical units: Blue: M2 & M3 Bradleys (scout and inf carrying version); OPFOR: BMP2 & 3 Summary: great weapon systems, but try to resist the temptation to use them as light tanks. OPFOR tends to have the edge in ATGM range, the Brads a tiny edge in armor and more ATGMS +++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Infantry: crunchies Strengths: put them in tough terrain and the little buggers resist getting killed; hard to spot; an inf unit with a radio and arty support is a lethal little weapons platform; can kill tanks at close ranges with AT weapons (which are moderately plentiful in most units) Weaknesses: vulnerable to every weapon system on the battlefield *except* ATMGs, slooooooow Summary: they're groundpounders +++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Artillery: long range noise makers Strengths: off-map or out of LOS; modern arty is lethal against everything - TacOps distinguishes between standard HE and ICM (Improved Conventional Munitions: cluster bombs) - the latter *will* kill tanks very nicely Weaknesses: limited ammo (those guns chew up the tonnes); time delays with indirect fire; fire usually needs to be adjusted on to target Typical units: Blue: 155mm, MLRS (Nebelwerfer meets ICM - will devastate a 1km x 1km area)' OPFOR: 152mm. MLR (MLRS without ICM) Summary: just like the WWII stuff for the most part, only a bit faster to get rounds on target and deadlier +++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Attack helicopters: nice tank killers Strengths: long range AT capabilities; fast and able to hide behind hills and forests; can often pop-up, kill and go back to NOE (nap of earth) before air defence units have time to react Weaknesses: complex pieces of machinery that don't take a lot to knock out of the sky, and pretty much everything that sees one *will* shoot at it Typical units: Blue: AH64 Apache; OPFOR: Mi28 Havoc Summary: probably the biggest change from WWII - like CAS, but more flexible and a lot nastier +++++++++++++++++++++++++++ There is an excellent data base in the TacOps game as well. For what it's worth, it was a TacOps demo that prompted my interest in modern warfighting. Go play. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
guachi Posted October 27, 1999 Share Posted October 27, 1999 'John, starts with a "D" Steve' I know that you've said that working with MS APIs is a pain, but do you really think it will be decades until the game is released? Or were you thinking of some other time part that begins with 'D'? Jason Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moon Posted October 27, 1999 Share Posted October 27, 1999 Like... deeks? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Bryan Corkill Posted October 27, 1999 Share Posted October 27, 1999 If we were talking Road to Moscow it would be 'dears'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zackary Posted October 28, 1999 Share Posted October 28, 1999 "D" fuer Donnerstag??? ------------------ Zackary Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Mikeman Posted October 28, 1999 Share Posted October 28, 1999 Great post Brian, I learned a lot in a short time. Did you learn all that from TacOps itself or have you read up on the subject? Mikeman out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Michael emrys Posted October 28, 1999 Share Posted October 28, 1999 Peter: Brian's (aka Rocky) post covers the subject pretty well (especially about everything being *very* lethal [make that **very**, *very* lethal]). One tip I will offer that may get you started is to use lots and lots of smoke. Generally your side has thermal sights and Opfor does not. It helps. Michael Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Rock Posted October 28, 1999 Share Posted October 28, 1999 Thanks, Mike 1 & Mike 2. As for source of data, I'd guess I've learned about: 30% from playing TacOps, solo and CPXs (a moderated multiplayer IRC game). Great chance to try things out on a virtual battlefield, and the CPX are a great opportunity to get stomped by professional tankers. Very eudcational. 30% from the TacOps listserv. Full of current and ex-professional military types, historians, grogs, semi-grogs (love that term Mikeman ) and ordinary people with an interest in modern hardware & warfare. The Major is a regular participant too. 40% other reading. I have since been inspired to develop a modestly serious library on manuever warfare theory and contemporary military tactics and hardware. Michael's tip on smoke is a good one, and a clear oversight on my part. Modern thermals make target acquisition through smoke much easier. Just remember in TacOps to turn the OFPOR thermals off at game start. [This message has been edited by Brian Rock (edited 10-28-99).] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davidh Posted October 28, 1999 Share Posted October 28, 1999 The only problem with giving yourself and not OPFOR thermal sights is that it seriously unbalances the game, i.e. you will have a tremendous advantage, and will develop bad habits. Try the game with both sides having thermal sights, or both sides having smoke that defeats thermals. Or, better still, exchange modern units for early 1970's ones that don't have thermal sights. It'll make you a better tactician, and will be better training for CM. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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