Guest PatB_TGN Posted September 6, 1999 Share Posted September 6, 1999 Fionn has written an article that explains how Combat Mission handles certain Fog of War aspects. His article also displays the lethality of Anti-Tank guns during the latter part of World War 2. There's over 30 screen shots in document. The url below will take you directly to the first page. There's an option to view all pages at once. But I strongly recommend that only the folks with fast internet connections take this option. http://combathq.thegamers.net/articles/fogofwar/fowatg_1.html -Patrick patb@thegamers.net Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomm Posted September 6, 1999 Share Posted September 6, 1999 Ouch ! What a mess ! One question: Will the AT gun graphics be refined ? Looks like a place-holder ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike D Posted September 6, 1999 Share Posted September 6, 1999 Hey Fionn, First of all thanks for this little demo. It's really insightful and goes a long way to illustrate CM's strengths in a number of areas. Next, I've got another of my dumb questions. In several of the screen shots showing the unit info for an 88mm AT gun down at the bottom there is a "T-2", or "T-3" followed by a red circle w/ a slash through it. What does this mean? Also, under the ammo listing for these guns there are a couple of rounds of "S" type ammo listed. I assume this is smoke? Regards, Mike D aka Mikester Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest PatB_TGN Posted September 6, 1999 Share Posted September 6, 1999 I believe Fionn is away for the Day, so I'll try to field the questions until his return. Thomm wrote: <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>One question: Will the AT gun graphics be refined ? Looks like a place-holder!<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> I don't know if the images will be enhanced before the final release. Steve or Charles would have to answer that. But from what I have read of their responses on this board, the game is pushing the limits of 3d polygon usage. So unless they dive into using sprites, I don't foresee more enhancements. Doug wrote: <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>In several of the screen shots showing the unit info for an 88mm AT gun down at the bottom there is a "T-2", or "T-3" followed by a red circle w/ a slash through it. What does this mean? Also, under the ammo listing for these guns there are a couple of rounds of "S" type ammo listed. I assume this is smoke?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> The symbol to the right of the unit indentifier is the 'In Command' indicator. It shows whether a unit is under the direct influence of a HQ. I believe Fionn excluded any HQ units from his article. Thus all his Anti-Tank guns suffered from lack of Command. Lack of commmand is indicated with that red circle and slash. The S is indeed the number of available smoke rounds. Good call -Patrick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fionn Posted September 6, 1999 Share Posted September 6, 1999 I'm back ! T indicates a unit which has no HQ.. E.g. If I bought an infantry platoon they'd be G0, G1,G2,G3 BUT when I buy a single machinegun it becomes T1, the next unattached unit becomes T2 etc.. That's roughly how it works. The rest of it Pat got right on the nose. ------------------ ___________ Fionn Kelly Manager of Historical Research, The Gamers Net - Gaming for Gamers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rick Posted September 6, 1999 Share Posted September 6, 1999 Great article. It has some of the coolest screenshots that I've yet seen. Can't hardly wait to play a game with some anti-tank ambushes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Big Time Software Posted September 6, 1999 Share Posted September 6, 1999 Thomm - the AT gun model is a generic one and we plan to replace it with better ones. Charles Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hunter Posted September 7, 1999 Share Posted September 7, 1999 Fionn, Great article. The AT thing and the AARs are a real turn-on. I can't wait to play my "grog" friends with this baby Bruce Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pixman Posted September 7, 1999 Share Posted September 7, 1999 Fionn, great job on the article. It really showed of the LOS, tactical AI, rate of fire and other aspects of the game. It also showed why infantry is so valuable when advancing! Question: What happens to AT Gun crews when their piece is knocked out? I noticed that the Stuart crew took on a bailed out identity with pistol armament and the like. But in the first screen shot where you show the AT gunner taking off, the unit detail display just gives a status for the gun, i.e. "knocked out", but nothing about the crew. Is this because, once the crew runs away, they are a separate entity from the gun and you would have to specifically select them? Thanks again for all the great work. Pixman ------------------ The enchanter may confuse the outcome, but the effort remains sublime. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fionn Posted September 7, 1999 Share Posted September 7, 1999 Pixman, Absolutely correct. Once the AT gun crew has run away they are, in effect, "bailed crew" and thus are separate from the weapon they used to man. The way it works is: "Working Stuart + crew = one entity" "Knocked out Stuart + bailed crew = 2 entities" Same for AT guns. ------------------ ___________ Fionn Kelly Manager of Historical Research, The Gamers Net - Gaming for Gamers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pixman Posted September 7, 1999 Share Posted September 7, 1999 Thanks for the clarification Fionn. Makes sense. By the way, how many times in one 60 second turn do you think one of those Pak88s can fire on average (assuming all targets are in the initial covered arc)? I know this was talked about in theory in another thread, but I figured your little demo gave you an opportunity to see the game specifically model it. Thanks. ------------------ The enchanter may confuse the outcome, but the effort remains sublime. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Rock Posted September 8, 1999 Share Posted September 8, 1999 I keep trying to work the "G" and "T" abbreviations out... but no joy. Why "G" for units with HQs and "T" for unattached units? "G" for "Goodie! there are officers to think for us!" & "T" for "Tell the High Command we are on our own" seems improbable... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moon Posted September 8, 1999 Share Posted September 8, 1999 "T" is probably be standing for Team. The "G" is only one possible designation. There can be A, B, C etc. So e.g. first platoon HQ would be A-0, the first squad of the first platoon would be A-1 etc. Second platoon would be B (B-0, B-1...) and so on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fionn Posted September 8, 1999 Share Posted September 8, 1999 T are for "unaTtached units" Other units with HQs are termed A, B, C, D, E etc. E.g. If I bought an infantry company as my first units it'd go something like this A1 Infantry company leader B0 Infantry platoon leader B1 B2 B3 (The squads) C0 C1 C2 C3 D0 D1 D2 D3 Then if I wanted an MG 42 I'd purchase it separately as : T1 and so on and so forth. Pixman: I didn't count exactly but I'm guessing they got off between 3 and 4 rounds a minute.. BUT they were being heavily fired on by US tanks during that time so that's a poor benchmark to use. ------------------ ___________ Fionn Kelly Manager of Historical Research, The Gamers Net - Gaming for Gamers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Big Time Software Posted September 8, 1999 Share Posted September 8, 1999 Also note that aiming and traversing are seperate factors to the RoF. Say the gun can fire 5 rounds per minute. If all targets are in the same firing arc, then it is possible that all 5 could be fired. But if the targets were spread out and required a 90 degree change of facing, there is NO way it could fire 5 rounds. Reason is that the traversing speed is simulated. Steve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Rock Posted September 9, 1999 Share Posted September 9, 1999 OK, it's becoming clearer. I think... In Fionn's example A1 is the infantry company leader, B0 the infantry platoon leader, and B1, B2, & B3 the squads. Then C0 for second platoon leader, with C1, C2 and C3 the squads, etc. Why aren't all units identified by company - eg A10 A Coy, 1st Platoon's leader, A23 for A Coy, 2nd platoon 3rd squad, etc? I think it would be easier to track who commands whom. Or is this one of those non-issues that doesn't come up when playing the game? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fionn Posted September 9, 1999 Share Posted September 9, 1999 Hi Brian, It is one of those things which is a non-issue in a game simply because: A: The platoon is the tactical unit of manouevre in the game thus naming unit G0, G1, G2, G3 makes it EASIER to keep platoons coherent than if you used the company as a reference point. And very simply since A1 is a company HQ it follows that B, C and D are the platoons under it. Anything beginning with a B, C or D belongs to company A. I've certainly never been in the slight bit confused by the system although I think I'd be confused by using the company as the reference point. ------------------ ___________ Fionn Kelly Manager of Historical Research, The Gamers Net - Gaming for Gamers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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