Will Combat Mission have copy protection?

[Richard]

I have no problem with a CD in but HATE a doc check. Hate it a great deal .

Now as far as CD's and laptops I think the main reason someone would want a full install is that most modern CD drives on laptops will respin once every minute or so with a CD in the drive and that costs precious charging time on the laptop.

But then again I don't plan on playing CM on the only laptop we own, my wife's .

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Richard Arnesen

The Wargamer

http://www.wargamer.com

[Guest Mikeman]

With the current low prices of "CD burners" I would think all anti-piracy measures are futile, but I would still require the CD in the drive if it were my intellectual property (and livelyhood) at stake.

Having said that, I think a game like CM

would be very hard to learn and/or enjoy without the nice manual. I detest incomplete

and poorly written manuals, and would never buy a complicated realistic wargame without any manual at all; which is the way CD burning pirates sell their wares on sites like Yahoo! auctions. Anyone who bought one of the cheap copies would be in for a rude awakening when they tried to learn the game and would probably tire of it soon. I don't

think a real wargamer would even consider buying a CDR of this game (no manual), so no sales are really lost there.

As for legal users giving copies to friends complete with manual, the apparent

quality and basic integrity of the people on this forum leads me to believe that the vast majority of CM purchasers would not give the game away. We have too much respect for the

developers, not to mention the fact that we need them to make it if we want this "dream come true" to continue.

I'm not familiar with the "Warez" groups, but I'll bet you don't get a manual so the above would apply to their brand of piracy too.

As good as this game looks to be I'm almost certain this game will not be a 'hit' by industry standards so the voracious pirates will not copy it much. I'm probably too naive and trusting of wargamers, but I don't think CM needs any anti-pirate stuff. Here's a crazy idea: Sell two different versions of CM, one where the CD must be in place for $50.00, and one with no pirate protection at all for $75.00. Those who are extremely bothered by having to use the CD could buy the latter and help defray the cost to the company of piracy. I'm sure there's a good reason that can't be done but I don't know what it is. Great game and great board! Mikeman out.

[Lee]

Thomas, I think your concerns have just been addressed by BTS. Steve

said that if your CD wears out from normal (albeit heavy ) use

that BTS will replace it at no cost to you. Can't ask for more than that.

So, even if they did make it difficult to make extra copies on your own,

you would be at no risk of having to buy another copy, ever. Not bad, eh?

[Fred]

I agree with you Steve; no manual check but the cd has to be in the drive in order to play CM.

And to be honest, I really trust all those dedicated wargamers on this website, that we all realize the efforts of Charles and you and the others to create such a fine game. That would feel like betraying a buddy, and most people won't do that (I hope so

Fred

[HAL]

Just thought I would mention that one of the game compaines they I used to work for used a copy protection scheme that worked very well for them, and didn't cost a lot to implement. They required the CD in the drive, but to get around CD/R's they wrote the part that the program uses for validation to look like bad sectors on the CD. Most CD/R's won't copy bad sectors so the Burnt copies would fail the copy protection check. I know this is a little vague, but what do you want I am a Producer not a programmer

HAL

[Moon]

Hal, from what I recall this is EXACTLY what BTS is going to do!

[ebaker]

I haven't been watching the progress of CM lately, but I checked in and these darn AAR got me hooked again.

Concerning copy protection I've always gotten weary of the game background music and wanted to play a music CD in the background. Is it practical to have both, by requiring the game CD to be in the drive when entering (and exiting if needed for full protection). During gameplay you could slip in a music CD of your choice. And yes I realize this is a minor point and maybe not popular enough to worry about. ebaker

[Thomas Davie]

Lee: Battlefront's return policy is good I'll admit. Most other companies would do well to emulate them in this area.

Moon: If the CD turns out to be uncopyable due to incorporation of 'bad' sectors on the original CD my policy is simple; I'll send the CD back to Battlefront at my expense, and they have my money for free I will *not* support an uncopyable program in any way, shape or form after W*st Fr*nt from T*l*ns*ft. So, if it turns out to be the case that Combat Mission is uncopyable (which is entirely within their rights as a producer), I would appreciate it if someone would make this fact known to me before I buy the game.

Tom

[kingtiger]

A cohort ran into a program that copied to hard drive into a 700 MB set of files. The result, can't copy onto another CD. Same result when copy from CD to CDR - no way to do it. Of course some creature (worm) will figure it out, but it surely eliminates the friend giving a friend a copy syndrome. Also, most people just can't download 600 MB files from the net. I can't remember the name of game - I'll check. I am all for copy protection. I think it is great. Also, saw an install key good for 10 installs of game, then must go back to developer to purchase more install keys. I can't remember installing a game more than 4 times with drive rebuilds and Windows re-installs. Also, saw DRAKEN with ability to copy, but the installed copied game CD won't function after that. However, restoring a saved game does work. I strongly agree with copy protection, CD required and anything else that can be included.

Richard Kalajian

[Mike D]

"P.S. See other thread about "spawning" for multi-player. Something we haven't decided on yet."

Ahhh, Steve, you read my mind. I asked about this quite some time ago. Still no decision eh? Well, it's probably a minor point either way, but I actually think it might help attract more paying customers. But then that is just my opinion.

On a totally different topic, what have you guys decided about the game turn timer? Is it in? Not in? Still undecided as well?

Regards,

Mike D

aka Mikester

A fools wisdom knows no bounds other than the infinite space between his ears.

[Rick]

As a photographer, copyright law is very important to me as well.

Protect your game as much as you can and sue any pirates you can to the extent of your ability. People are committing exactly the same crime by copyright infringement as if they burglarized your home.

[Lee]

Thomas, apparently none of this will be an issue, as Steve has

already indicated that they are heavily leaning toward requiring

the CD be in the drive as the means of protection. So, you can

have your backup copy and BTS can protect their product from the

majority of abuses all at the same time. Seems like a good

solution to me.

[This message has been edited by Lee (edited 09-15-99).]

[Thomas Davie]

Lee: accepting that the CD be in the drive in order to play the game is a price I don't mind paying *as long as* I can copy the original CD so that I do not have to use the original disc.

Tom

[Lee]

Ebaker makes a good point. If BTS is going to require the CD be in

the drive for authentication (which I don't mind), then it would be

highly desirable to have the CD checked only at game launch and

game end. This way, those that like to listen to their favorite

music CD while playing a game can do so. The game is still

protected and the player can play "Ride of the Valkyries" as his

panzers storm into battle, hehe. 8)

[This message has been edited by Lee (edited 09-15-99).]

[Brian Rock]

Agreed.

Probably 90-95% of the time I can't be bothered whacking in a music CD. But I get quite irritated about the 5% of times when I do want some music and can't because the game is needs the CD.

CM may be a bit different in that I want to hear the game sounds during the playback phase, but I wouldn't mind my choice of think music during the planning phase.

[Fionn]

You'll be missing out a LOT if you don't listen to the sounds of battle in CM.

Rifle, MG, tank fire, the crackle of a fire etc all come at you in 3D so you can tell exactly where the firing starts.

We can't show it to you in the AARs unfortunately but it is very immersive and not something you'd want to miss out IMO.

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Fionn Kelly

Manager of Historical Research,

The Gamers Net - Gaming for Gamers

[Lee]

Fionn, if I decided to listen to some music while playing CM, I

definately wouldn't play it so loud as to block out the sound

effects. I would only play it on low in the background as

good mood music for the battle. I wouldn't want to miss out on

all the cool sounds of battle, either.

[Fionn]

Lee,

Three words. Limited sound channels..

Your computer has limited sound channels. It can't pay BOTH a CD AND CM's sounds at the same time.

I tried this already myself (those people who say we testers won't try all the weird things are way wrong hehe )... Playing a CD, a midi, a wav or an MP3 ALL prevent ANY CM sound being played..

Let me tell you, I did NOT like not having the sounds. I was so used to hearing MG bursts, rifle fire and tanks motors that I just couldn't stand to play on without the sounds and quit and restarted.

FWIW if you want music with CM I suggest you just pop the CD in a portable CD player. That works for me and isn't any hassle.

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Fionn Kelly

Manager of Historical Research,

The Gamers Net - Gaming for Gamers