Last Defence as Americans?

[Beamup]

Wow, I'm posting a lot today. Contrary to what seems to be typical around here, I find Last Defense easier for Germans than Americans. Just push forward, with support, and overrun them with ease - even if the Hellcats wipe out my vehicles (only happened twice) my infantry is perfectly sufficient. But, I can't come up with good tactics for the Americans, though I still win with them. Whenever I try a forward defense (at the wheatfield wall and the forest on the US right flank) my troops can ambush some leading elements, but then the rest of the Krauts swarm over them, and there isn't enough cover to pull them back to the town. However, I feel sure that defending in the town from the start (which shreds the comp totally every time) would fail against a decent human player. What tactics do you people use that seem effective?

[C Colapietro]

I can give you some general strategies that seem to work well on the defensive...

While the temptation is to put maximum firepower up at the front line, it is extremely important to keep units back out of the action as reserves. While your weaker front-line units may take a bit of a pounding, this allows you later in the battle to bring up fresh troops on a second line of defense while withdrawing the battered front-line troops under covering fire to regroup.

Also, try not to make your defending troops hold out in one place to the last man. Plan your rearward displacements before the battle begins and force the attacker to cross open ground to come to you. Planning good lanes of fire and secondary positions can give a superior attacking force a real problem to contend with.

Giving up ground is not always a bad thing, especially if you are funneling the attacker into a well laid trap...

[Fionn]

Well, Last Defence is a simple map to get the gist of..

Rule 1 of map reading is NOT to think about it too much.

My simple way of looking at Last Defence is as follows:

Left side:

German Setup Area

Woods (good cover)

Wall

Wheatfield

Wall

Houses.

IF I set up at the first wall then I've got to withdraw over an open wheatfield in full view of 3 tanks and 4 Hts plus a company of troops with heavy weapons BAD IDEA !!!

So I either place units forward and accept that they will die in place OR I don't try to fight anywhere except in the houses or the wall just in front of the houses.

Middle:

german setup

Woods

Wide OPEN SPACE

Some Houses leading into village

Village

If you want to defend the middle you can set up a crummpling defence in which you slowly retreat through each of the 4 or 5 houses on that road towards the road junction and then use whatever survivors to bolster the defence of the main objective.

Seems good but is VERY bad since the enemy will advance along two axes and will hack you up as you retreat unless he's incompetent.

Right flank

German setup

Woods

Open space

Wall

Then Germans must turn right and attempt to roll up my line by assaulting a particular and predictable house

IF I defend from the wood then there is NO RETREAT as retreat only yields casualties to no gain.

ANY defence in those woods can be simply bypassed and a pressue on the town mounts and the US player is FORCED to send the infantry platoon he put there into the town they can be cut down by HMG and tank fire (I'm doing just this to an American player at the moment ).

ALLOW the Germans to go up your right flank and charge the multi-story house. Your MGs will attrit them on the way in and your infantry will be waiting inside and shred them.

There are many excellent defensive positions and some weak ones. Some which appear weak at first are strong if specific neighbouring positions are also occupied. It's all about choosing a plan for THAT game and that opponent but being flexible enough to change it mid-game and building enough flexibility into your plan to change it mid-game.

------------------

___________

Fionn Kelly

Manager of Historical Research,

The Gamers Net - Gaming for Gamers

[Guest Bryan Corkill]

You can see how I 'screwed' it up at Combat HQ. My writing style is not as good as Fionn's, but with the movies, I think you'll see my thinking.

Bryan

[SimonFox]

I would pretty much concurr with Fionn's assessments here. The default US deployments are pretty dumb, you really need to preserve your infantry until those Hellcats show up

I note here with wry amusement that his suggestions are somewhat less aggressive than those he has made in other threads which were pretty bloodthirsty.

On the left and centre I agree though I think it is possible to deploy a little further forward on the right as there is more opportunity for a staged withdrawal (if necessary- so far playing the AI that hasn't been required).

On another note if planning an ambush place your green units right next to a leader or out of LOS especially if in buildings- if they can't see it they can't stuff up and you can always crawl them forward just as you spring the ambush.

[Fionn]

I actually think there is more leeway for an aggressive assault by the Americans on the LEFT than on the right.. At least on the left, while there is no escape route you DO have the possibility of really pinning the enemy down.

On the right you can be bypassed.

BTW Simon, I was playing a PBEM game which I didn't want to jeopardise my ambush in ... Agressive is my middle name as you'll see when you see the AARS

------------------

___________

Fionn Kelly

Manager of Historical Research,

The Gamers Net - Gaming for Gamers

[Hawk]

I played americans in LD as my very first try at CM. Using default American setup, I hid all the units (I thought), placed an ambush on the road near the wall and ran the turn. I quickly found out that I had forgotten to hide the MGs in the village and they happily engaged the germans as soon as they spotted them. For some reason the germans deployed their forces north of the stone wall (south being the village) and started pumping HE and MG fire into the houses. This continued for a few turns and then some inf started coming through the woods in the east. I started using the mortars but othervise remained hidden. Then I retreated on MG and lost another one when the house he sat in disintegrated. Enemy inf came slowly forward in the east and my troops in/near the victory location in the northeast engaged them. Then came the Hellcats and two turns later I had lost two while killing the three german panzers. The rest was basically a mop-up operation. The only excitement where in the east where the enemy inf tried storming the building time after time and almost succeeded before I got some reinforcements there.

So I disagree that the US default setup is downright dumb. Against a human opponent, I would have had greater difficulties of course.

Hawk

------------------

Our's is not to reason "why", our's is but to do and die!

[This message has been edited by Hawk (edited 11-10-99).]

[von Lucke]

Much like Hawk, my first try at CM was the Last Defense (note the 's' you nonce's!), and I jumped right into it using the default American starting positions: Other than a brief moment of anxiety when the Tiger attempted to single-handedly roll up my right flank, I beat the German AI handily ---tho, I must admit, not without losses to my own troops that, had not those M18's shown up when they did, would have probably lead to some very nasty hand-to-hand fighting in the village itself.

As it was, the AI seemed easily stymied by the harrasing fire put up by my MG's and 60mm mortars; with the SS PG squads content to hold in place at the edge of the forest and trade rounds with me. Even the StuG's and HT's never advanced closer than the stone wall by the main road before being lit-up by the Hellcats. As I said before, the biggest threat came from the Tiger: That 88mm gun can certainly reach out and touch you! But even it didn't stand a chance against simultaneous plunging fire from three 76mm APDS rounds...

And by the time the SS troopers finally got it into their heads to assault, my reinforcements were in the town, and the game was over. The only objective I lost was the house far forward on the right...

[Moon]

Yeah, but look at your name... von LUCKE

[von Lucke]

But of course, mein Herr: when I played this scenario from the German side it was a total roll-over .

Always remember: The key to a successful blitzkrieg is a good pincer movement...

[TZEENCH]

If you do it right you can catch the german advance in the first step with a nasty ambush on the road and the valley in last defence . (4 ht of inf+ht were demolished in 1 turn not to mention the 2 tanks on the other side of th map.) after that you just have to stop the inf advance through the forest, the hellcats can help whip them out.

[SimonFox]

"So I disagree that the US default setup is downright dumb."

Just because it worked once against the AI doesn't make it OK . For a real challenge try playing while raising your personal goals: absolutely minimal casualties and possession of all victory locations at the end or deliberately suiciding your hellcats for a real nailbiter etc etc.

"Last Defense (note the 's' you nonce's!)"

Keep your cultural imperialism to yourself buddy note it is called the ENGLISH language so you don't own it (yet).

"three 76mm APDS rounds" from the Hellcats point of view I am sure they would like to have APDS but unfortunately I think they only have normal AP at this stage of the war

Fionn,

The problem is that such a deception only works when people believe it I had to scroll up to the top of your post to check the author I am sure your opponent was under no illusions.