Fictional DAR to demonstrate CM/PzC operational play

[Tactical Wargamer]

Love this system!!! Thanks NOOB!

[noob]

Love this system!!! Thanks NOOB!

Thanks for the compliment

I'm currently packaging the Panzer Campaigns (PC) Normandy 44 scenario Buron 01 (with a CMBN compatible PzC OOB) along with a Lite version of the Normandy'44 game ( i have permission from HPS software to distribute it publicly).

Along with this i am including the CM OOB's of all the forces present, CM maps of the operational victory locations and generic CM maps of villages, bridges and crossroads, and a concise set of rules and conversion tables.

All this will packaged in a RAR file and placed in the BF repository and a public dropbox folder at my signature link.

I am going to play this PC scenario as a PC PBEM game with a CM friend of mine, we will be the opposing CO's playing each other at the operational level, then fighting whichever CM battle is generated first, if multiple CM battles are generated in a PC turn they will be sub contracted out, with tactical and strategical briefings written and added by the respective CO's.

We plan on creating an operational and tactical DAR of this CMPC game so watch this space.

[Tactical Wargamer]

Just a correction (but thanks for the compliment StoneAge):

I don't actually or always let casualty thresholds end battles automatically.

In my operational rules, companies and battalions have various casualty level "breakpoints" in a CMBN battle that trigger a step loss when the units to back into the operational game.

So the player can decide whether to press an attack past that breakpoint and sacrifice the step, or break it off and preserve his forces (as I did as the US player in Hamel Vallee).

But, since companies only have one step, they'd be eliminated. So hitting a breakpoint effectively ends the battle for an attacking or defending company.

A battalion, if it has two operational steps, can take more punishment and keep fighting. But a reduced battalion, like a company, has only one step and will be eliminated if it exceeds a breakpoint.

Hi Broadsword do you have a link to your rule set by chance?

[noob]

Love this system!!! Thanks NOOB!

This table is the key to it.

[76mm]

Noob this is all very interesting. I'm also looking at doing this same kind of thing, but for the Russian front, so am playing around with the Mius demo.

At least for me, doing this on the Russian front will require that many, if not most of the battles be resolved by PzC--the battles will be too big (multiple battalions on the Russian side) and there will be too many battles (little operational maps generally don't cut it for Russian games) to make it feasible to resolve every single battle in CMx2.

[noob]

At least for me, doing this on the Russian front will require that many, if not most of the battles be resolved by PzC--the battles will be too big (multiple battalions on the Russian side) and there will be too many battles (little operational maps generally don't cut it for Russian games) to make it feasible to resolve every single battle in CMx2.

In an operation i was umpiring there was a battle with 7 companies versus 5, which the players found manageable, so i don't think multi battalion games will be too much for some players in the CM community, which is were i want to mention sub contracting, if your operation generates too many CM battles to cope with, offer them out to the CM community, complete with briefings outlining the operational situation and your expectations of them in the upcoming battle.

I think sub contracting CM battles is the way forward for operational play, because it's not tasking players with the added burden of understanding the operational rules and system, they just play H2H CM games as usual, with the only difference being a/ there are consequences to the battles, and b/ they could be dismissed if they mess up

[76mm]

Maybe in Normandy it is 7 companies vs 5, but on the Russian front it could well be 7 battalions vs 5. While I rather enjoyed such large battles in CMx1, so far I find them kind of overwhelming in CMx2. Especially if you have to fight ten such battles for every PzC turn...

I think that farming out the CM battles is a good idea, but even if you do so, I still think that creating the necessary maps will be a major bottleneck (in particular, if you are fighting a huge Russian front battle, I am not sure how many existing maps can be re-used).

Also, even if you have the players and the maps to play several CM battles for each PzC turn, it will probably be weeks before all of the CM battles are finished, so the PzC turns will really crawl.

Anyway, I'm just looking at whether it will be feasible to use this kind of sistem on the Russian front, I guess I've got a year or so to figure it out!

[DBF]

Great stuff Noob:

New to forum, so hope this gets through.

Few questions related to dealing with units in PzC. 1) Paratroopers take losses in initial drops, you edit the losses in the PzC OOB database or will PzC game update those units? 2) If a unit is complete destroyed in a BM battle, do you delete is from the PzC OOB to remove from the PzC game? 3) Fatigue- is there a way to edit the fatigue manually in PzC OOB? Thanks

[noob]

Great stuff Noob

Thanks for the compliment

Few questions related to dealing with units in PzC. 1) Paratroopers take losses in initial drops, you edit the losses in the PzC OOB database or will PzC game update those units?

No unit can suffer loses using my modified PzC OOB because all the combat values are removed from the PzC units, any losses sustained in a CM battle are subtracted from the PzC units headcount manually after each CM battle.

2) If a unit is complete destroyed in a BM battle, do you delete is from the PzC OOB to remove from the PzC game?

If a unit is wiped out on the CM map its PzC equivalent is moved to a hex at the edge of the map and removed using the "Remove From Map" command.

3) Fatigue- is there a way to edit the fatigue manually in PzC OOB? Thanks

Not using the PzC OOB, i add a CM Fitness indicator to the PzC units name in it's namebox, i.e. * = Weakened and ~ = Unfit.

The only thing the PzC units will display in the game are the units CM headcount and Fitness level, to check units for their CM Motivation and Supply levels the master CM OOB must be accessed in the CM scenario editor.

[DBF]

Thanks Noob.

[76mm]

If a unit is wiped out on the CM map its PzC equivalent is moved to a hex at the edge of the map and removed using the "Remove From Map" command.

Noob, how do you move the units to a hex at the edge of the map in PzC? I can't see how to do that in the OOB editor?

[noob]

Noob, how do you move the units to a hex at the edge of the map in PzC? I can't see how to do that in the OOB editor?

You have to do it manually, so if a unit is blown and you want to exit it, just move it to any hex at any map edge and use the Command / Remove From Map function.

In the case of PzC unit losing a CM battle whilst encircled and thus being removed from the PzC map, the following procedure must be carried out.

In PzC, the six adjacent hexes to the one a PzC unit occupies are called it's zones of control (ZOC).

When the ZOC optional rule is applied it is possible for a unit to enter an enemy units ZOC but it is not possible to move from one enemy ZOC to another.

Therefore the ZOC's can help protect the flanks and rear of a unit, and allow extended lines of battle by placing units within two hexes of each other, thus creating a two hex wide ZOC field between those units, which protects against one unit being encircled.

However if a unit does get encircled, which means it is in such a position that all it's ZOC hexes are shared with enemy units ZOC's, it is then classed as Isolated according to the supply rules of PzC.

If an Isolated PzC unit fights a CM battle, any CM units that exit the CM battle are classed as captured, and therefore removed from the units master CM OOB, and if all the non exiting CM units are either killed or captured, or the player surrenders the CM battle, the losing forces PzC unit counter is removed from the PzC map.

This is done by using the PzC assault function.

So with this in mind, i intend to give every PzC unit an assault value of 10 and a defence value of 0, then the player whose unit has been captured must edit the captured unit in the PzC OOB to show a numerical strength of 0.

Once the PzC OOB has been updated, the player with the encircling units reloads the PBEM turn, and initiates assaults on the PzC unit that now has a 0 strength value, this then results in the total elimination of the Isolated PzC unit, and it's replacement on the hex with the assaulting unit/s.

This will be explained pictorially in the new rule documents.

[Vinnart]

I have been meaning to go through this thread to see what is going on over here creatively. I think it is clever of noob to find a way to add a tactical layer to the game for those who are interested in that, and have other game. I’m not really into it, but if it were added to CM in a more simple way such as TOW3 did I wouldn’t mind it. Perhaps something like a Tac layer could also be added as a feature offered in an upgrade.

[noob]

but if it were added to CM in a more simple way such as TOW3 did I wouldn’t mind it. Perhaps something like a Tac layer could also be added as a feature offered in an upgrade.

The best "built in" operational layers i ever experienced in a wargame was Close Combat 2 A Bridge To Far and Close Combat 5 Invasion Normandy.

Both had easy to use operational maps, CC5 used a chequer board style operational layer with road entrances and exits matching the ones on the tactical maps, terrain objective markers on the tactical map road exits determined ownership of those exits, which allowed players to trap their opponents forces on the battle maps, thus depriving them of supplies over successive turns if the supply wasn't re connected through combat.