John Hough Posted November 9, 1999 Share Posted November 9, 1999 Someone in a thread below pointed out that you can increase the angle shots hit you from, and thus make yourself harder to hit, by pointing one of the front corners toward the enemy, and that this was done historically. Sounds like a good idea, so I decide to try it out. My first 'Last Defence as the Germans. I've been the Americans, so I know where the Hellcats are coming from. I set up my tiger next to the road, behind the wall, hoping it's enough to get hull down, with the right front corner pointing at the hill. The Hellcats pop in. The Stugs take one shot each, but one takes out a Hellcat. A first shot ricochets off the Tiger. A miss, a shattered shell. Another two Shots hit the tiger to no effect... And the crew gets mad... And the Tiger turns, not the turret, but the tank itself to face the Hellcats. It's just about to line up for a shot, the front armor gets square with the Hellcat, and... WHANG! Americans 3, Germans 1. Ok, so it's one test, and luck has a lot to do with how things turn out. But still, it seems like keeping the corner forward could be very effective, if you could actually do it. Am I missing something, or can you really not? And is this something that ought be changed? -John Hough [This message has been edited by John Hough (edited 11-08-99).] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doug Beman Posted November 9, 1999 Share Posted November 9, 1999 John, angling the tank doesn't make your tanks harder to hit, it makes them harder to kill by increasing the amount of armor that a shot has to punch through for a kill. If this is something you already knew, I guess I misunderstood your post. If not, and you want some clarification of this, ask (I don't want to take up forum space writing something if you already know it) DjB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Hough Posted November 9, 1999 Author Share Posted November 9, 1999 Uh.. yeah, that's what I meant. Sorry for not being quite correct with my semantics. -John Hough [This message has been edited by John Hough (edited 11-08-99).] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Webs Posted November 9, 1999 Share Posted November 9, 1999 It's much better just to stay 850m away, squared up. You'll get hit, but laugh at each "shell shattered" message. ------------------ Laurie Nyveen a.k.a. Webs, member of the WarBirds training staff ___________________ Editor, Netsurfer Digest - http://www.netsurf.com/nsd/index.html 101 Sqn opus-in-progress - http://101.warbirds.org/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark L Posted November 9, 1999 Share Posted November 9, 1999 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>John, angling the tank doesn't make your tanks harder to hit, it makes them harder to kill by increasing the amount of armor that a shot has to punch through for a kill.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Yeah, but what I think John was getting at was that the silly Tiger crew actually pivoted the HULL to get a shot, and so removed the angles benefit. And apparantly as a consequence - KaBoom - ded Tiger. Maybe an AI issue? But then again, doesn't the Tiger have kind of a slow turret traverse? If so, maybe the crew figured it was more expedient to pivot the whole vehicle. Or maybe the crew just screwed up... But then again, if you were actually hull-down, it wouldn't really matter anyway. Did you notice if if it was a turret or hull penetration? Mark Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bullethead Posted November 9, 1999 Share Posted November 9, 1999 Last time I played this scenario as the US, the Tiger was on the road by the stone building near the forward wheatfield wall, about 780m from the M18s at the top of the ridge. It was busy shelling the remnants of a platoon fleeing through the wheatfield, but the hull was pointed straight up the road at the M18s. 2 stationary M18s shot at the Tiger. Both hit the squared-on front armor, both shattered. The Tiger's only reaction was to pivot its hull parallel with its gun, presenting a corner of the hull to the M18s. It continued firing at the fleeing troops. The M18s hit the Tiger 4 more times that turn. All shots shattered. So, maybe the AI just aligns the hull with the gun anyway, regardless of which way the incoming is coming from? -Bullethead Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Big Time Software Posted November 9, 1999 Share Posted November 9, 1999 John, by squaring up to meet the threat it is removing the threat of a flank shot. As in real war, this is an approximate move. No driver/tc gets out a protractor and determines the best possible angle to be facing for a given threat Since putting the thickest armor between it and the threat is the BEST thing to do the vast majority of the time, that is what they do. Quite realistic. Bullethead, the tank hull will only realign with the gun when the tank feels that this is the best thing to do. I see tanks firing at targets without rotating the hull all the time. The difference is when the target is also a threat, like a Hellcat. Steve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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