A Helluva Road Opening (*spoilers*)

[Erwin]

This is the 2nd version with German recon troops and better initial setup options.

Am an hour into this 3 hour scenario and really enjoying it. Interesting mix of units on the Allied side (ANA, US and German). Lots of different strategies to decide on at start, and many different ways to proceed.

Hoping the designer still monitors this board as I have some questions/feedback...

Playing WEGO at the one hour mark I find the isolated garrison at the dam has not been put in any danger at all. The "50 cal" they have has used up maybe 3/4 of its ammo on its own initiative but has taken out several technicals, so doing a great job. I let their platoon HQ unit use arty on the Taliban entry area and maybe some other technicals were damaged there as well altho hard to see. So, a bit boring at the dam so far. Would be good to have some active threat there in the first 30 minutes.

However, very exciting for the rescue troops trying to open the road. The ANA rescue troops have just taken the observation building/hill and pretty much killed everything else just forward of that with German help plus the US snipers, and have spotted the Taliban arty FO who has been calling down effective arty on me. Have to keep moving and not stay in one position for more than a couple of minutes. Hope my arty will kill him soon. About 8 ANA casualties plus the German Fennek and one BTR with their crews KO'd so far.

Have elected to not do anything with the LHS village as it doesn't appear to pose a threat. However, a US platoon and vehicles are 3/4 of the way to clearing the RHS village with support from the recon squads and vehicles. One AFV KO'd plus about 8 inf casualties so far, in exchange for 3 technicals and maybe a dozen village Taliban so far.

This is one of my favorite CMSF scenarios along with Royal Mud Marines, Road to Dinas, and a couple others I forget the names of. Highly recommended.

[snake_eye]

Hi Erwin,

It has been some time since we discussed about the scenario. BTW, you know that V2 was done following your remarks. I am glad to read that you are enjoying it.

I have read the other post and BlackMoria answer. I was however unable to reply being far away from home and not having all the needed details in mind. I have the files right now if needed.

About the ANA troops at the dam. They are not always able to prevent the technicals to cross the dam. Usually I let them fight and keep an eye on them from time to time. I play RT Iron. I also have a squad ready to leave the hill garrison toward the dam bridge in order to engage with RPG’s the remaining technicals not being destroyed by the HMG fire (from the garrison and the dam bunker).

Good job for having spotted the artillery observer, taking the tower on hill 54 and clearing its farthest approaches.

The approach from the airfield passing the bridge and along the destroyed tanks and armoured cars is not always easy.

The LHS village can be left alone and just covered for a latter time attack.

The RHS village has to be taken to secure an alternate passage toward the bridge and to cover the moves on the road. The attack has been almost always done with a Stryker at the least destroyed and some casualties.

To have suppress fire and overwatch, I use Javelin’s being fired from the hill observatory near the control tower and a Stryker (better have the one with the grenade launcher gun than the 50’s). I usually have a FO being positioned there as well. A Stryker MSG give some supports firing on the hill 54 tower, after being shot at by a MG being over there and you can also turn it against the RHS, when needed.

Anyway there are different tactical ways to get into the fight and many times the one chosen at the beginning turns out not to work so well and an alternate tactic has to be started right away. To that intent I always have two plans, one going one and the other one ready to be launched. The troops and carriers being at their attack positions, in order to be deployed immediately if needed. That way they might lower the pressure on the already engaged troops and anyway outflank the enemy.

In any case what I do is not necessarily what should be done and the only way to do it. There are numerous ways to get into the fight and to the objectives with low and or high casualties.

I firmly believe that once the fight start, you are more or less tied up with your first move and the subsequent actions deriving from it. That is why I am always cautious about my first move. It is the one that will give me a hint of what is facing me and allow me to modify to some extent my attacking tactic. That works however better against a human opponent than against the A.I

I am not describing the use of the ANA recon and of the 2 Marder’s. They are however mainly used to open the road, give suppress fire on hill 54 and its surrounding, during the assault by the ANA. Eventually once hill 54 has been cleared if it is safe one of them can have an overwatch view on the RHS village and assist during its clearing by elements coming from the airfield.

Remaining

[Erwin]

Yes, I very much appreciated the improved set-up situation and the addition of the Germans adds much flavor.

On the right flank, I found that the RHS village fairly easy to take (altho' a lot of fun) as I massed the Strykers' fire against it using the legit excuse that enemy technicals were clearly seen and I wanted to avoid using arty. I believe I lost my Stryker due to a fluke as it was killed over 150m range when it advanced past the village on the right map edge and turned left towards the village - I guess it got just a little too close to the Taliban hiding in the rear trench. My overconfidence was the fault. Fortunately, the crew survived. Probably lost 4-6 US casualties taking the village, altho' it's unclear if one or two may have been friendly fire as I was mostly using the 50 cals and MGLs.

I only had one 50 cal Stryker on the initial OP hill in support while all else was at ground level supporting the troops. I used one 105mm armed one to breach the entry into a building, but any other damage was from the 50 cals. I resisted using the Javelins at first as realisticaly I thought they are too expensive to use on pick-ups and the enemy HMG on the map edge. But, I did use em eventually on those units. (What is the protocol on using such expensive weapons?)

Meanwhile, I used the German recon HQ dismounted to recon up the road supported by the other German units. (The immobilized Marder crew took the Fennek for fast rides up and down the road - going a little further towards the bridge every time - trying to draw fire.) I had snipers and everyone else with binocs in the hills spotting enemies and was successful in neutralizing the next hill and enemy HMG fairly quickly (altho it killed two of the 3-man ANA spotter team).

Spotted and killed one IED guy and used one ANA platoon to advance up the left of the road and one on the right with the Marders plus the loaned armored truck in support.

Used arty to help win the firefight with the enemy in the irrigation ditches(?) to the left of the road with about 4 ANA casualties - from Taliban arty primarily.

The ANA recon troops arrived and supported crossing of the bridge. But, the Fennek reconned ahead a little too far past the first "crossroads" and got blown up by massive IED killing the crew. But, not sure how I coulda avoided that. Spotted the 2nd IED guy and neutralized him with Marder fire.

The ANA recon supported by the BTR's reconned up to the hill followed by the ANA platoons. The Germans and other US assets staying behind to provide supporting fire. Took the hill without much problem other than Taliban arty again. But, lost a BTR - again unluckily to a long range rocket. (With WEGO you can see the shooters getting the range, but the vehicles don't react the way one could in RT. But, that is what makes WEGO more realistic imo.)

Once I took the hill and building (lost two ANA doing that) was able to bring fire down to the rear of the RHS village and aid the US in capturing it - somewhere around the one hour mark. Was also finally able to kill the HQ and HMG that was lingering on the extreme right map edge.

Te German Recon HQ kept going on the left of the road followed by an ANA platoon and cleared out the technical and small groups located behind the hills supported by Marder, BTR and even armed truck fire from the newly captured hill with the loss of maybe 4 more ANA. Around then spotted the Taliban FO and the vehicles poured fire on him to suppress and I think killed him.

On the left flank I merely left MG teams and snipers to observe any action in the left village. Saw an HQ I just could not kill for most of the hour. Eventually used arty and he seems to have gone.

So at 1 hour 10 minutes into the mission the ANA recon are advancing up the the road. (I think one just got hit by our own arty aiming for a pick-up and inf in the ditches in from of the next village/farmhouse objective.) So, still two ANA recon teams, but one team only has one guy and the other has four. No casualties amongst the Germans other than the Fennek and its immobilized Marder crew.

No threat at all vs the beleaguered ANA platoon at the dam so far. I think something should have been attacking them giving me reason for urgency. Its HMG is down to just over 100 rounds but has caused a lot of hurt to the Taliban vehicles and crews. (Wouldn't a garrison like that have a lot more ammo?)

I did occasionally Cease Fire to check on my effectiveness re casualties (no looking at the map of course) and I have about 30 KIA and WIA plus the Stryker, the Fennek and a BTR vs about 120 Taliban and a dozen or more pick ups. But I already have a Tactical Victory which seems a bit premature and too easy. Personally, I think I have taken too many casualties and should be punished for that with a Minor Loss so far. CMSF should be about rewarding for winning with minimal casualties. A couple US/Germans and 4-5 ANA casualties may be ok, but more than that should cost me dear. Vehicle losses are more acceptable.

Also, I read the LHS village is a victory location(?) but there seems to be no real point in attacking/taking it.

Other than the above suggestions/feedback, having a wonderful time... Thanks so much! Stay safe and hope you get to design more beauties like HELLUVA ROAD OPENING!

[Erwin]

At the halfway point timewise (90 mins to go) experienced a surprise attack on the left flank. The German Recon HQ, sacrified themselves to give early warning, and the other Germans and Marders came running for revenge.

The enemy attack ran right into them and the Taliban were massacred quite easily by the Germans with no loss to them. However, the ANA platoon on the left of the road took maybe 50% casualties despite being able to fire at the attackers' left flank. Oh, and the 2nd BTR was blowed up.

Ceasefired to see casualties etc. Still have a Tactical Victory with 40 friendly casualties vs about 160 enemy. So keeping a 4:1 ratio. At first glance the scenario seems too easy. But, then I think the objective is (or should be) minimal friendly casualties... and I have not succeeded at all in that. I get the feeling that maybe I have advanced too fast and aggressively and without sufficient caution - esp since I still have 90 minutes to go - and my guys paid a price.

I estimate at this point I should have a Minor Defeat simply cos of the friendly casualties, not a Tactical Victory. To deserve a Tactical Victory, I think I should have lost approx 10 guys or less and maybe one vehicle at this point.

[snake_eye]

Hi Erwin,

I shall look at your recent AAR closely to give you my point of view. But first you have taken too many casualties already among troops as well as with the armored tracks and or wheeled.

About the dam attack. It is mainly done to draw the attention over there and distract the player during the first 15 minutes or more.

More SPOILERS to come, but not before you get into them.

Have a nice play

[Erwin]

Up until the 3 man German Recon guys got shot, I had no German casualties other than the Fennek and its "new" crew (from the disabled Marder). (Why is there an immobilized Marder at all btw?)

I think I only have about 5-7 US casualties which seems acceptable, altho have lost one Stryker.

So, about 30 of the casualties are ANA incl the two BTR's and crews. (Aren't they expendable lol?)

[snake_eye]

****************SPOILERS****************

Hi Erwin,

I have been pretty busy these late days. Sorry about the inconvenience.

About the Marder immobilized. I had to look into the editor to have a recollection of why I had it immobilized. The main reason is that I found at the time that 3 Marders was a bit much as an asset. The second reason was that I wanted the mounted troopers to benefit of the panzerfausts carried by that Marder. They can be retrieved during the setup and distributed to the troopers. 2 Panzerfausts for one of the team and 3 for the other one. They have, that way an ample ammo load. Besides, the Fenneck is also carrying Panzerfausts.

Naturally the 2 Plt HQ 4 men and the 2 men snipers team being without a Marder are at the time of the setup dismounted.

The US forces Tiger’s 2 Plt doesn’t have Strykers available. That was also done to simulate what happens in RL when a force can not benefit of its normal vehicles strength due to mechanical break down, overhaul and or refitting.

In what may concern your tactical choices, despite your losses in men and vehicles, I think that you made the right ones. However, you were maybe a bit aggressive and that might explain your losses. To be aggressive against known enemy forces whose location is clearly defined is a good choice. On the contrary if you don’t know what lies ahead, at the time of contact you will take the full brunt of the enemy fire. It is better to reconnoiter what lies ahead and to be cautious. That means, to have a small party leading and a stronger one overwatching and providing a fire support. At the same time you should have your flanks secured.

In attacking Hill 54, you have to approach by the main road and establish a fire base at the bridge. No vehicles should go farther until the road sides have been cleared of a possible trigger man awaiting to blow an IED. You must check the left flank and keep at bay the Mujahideen’s force. The Marders can suppress the Hill 54 HMG to unable the ANA to approach its base prior to its assault. You must however suppress the oncoming fire from the right flank. That is not always that easy. Personally, I prefer to clear the RHS village and move to the edges of the plantations, in order to check the right flank.

The ANA has to wait at the rear lower ground of Hill 54 during that clearing and eventually provide a fire base to help the elements attacking the village.

Hill 54 HMG should have been silenced at that time either by snipers or rather by the MGS located on the right side of the airfield.

Once the RHS village task is done and the right flank checked by suppressing fire, the ANA can start its assault on Hill 54, but it is wise to have at least one Marder moved forward and on the left of the road to check the hillocks on the left of it. When a clear picture is available, ANA elements with trucks can deploy and dismount in order to move tactically forward and provide an overwatch on these hillocks.

So if the right flank is controlled and the same is done on the left one, the assault of Hill 54 can be attempted. From Hill 54 a new view of the battlefield will then be available and provide intelligence for the next step. Meanwhile the LHS village is just checked from the far left hillocks and no attempt are made for the time being to attack it, besides maintaining a constant overwatch on it. That way you can harass with mortars some enemy that might be seen. But have in mind that destroying village houses will get you penalized.

Once you have a full control of the left flank and that you are able to prevent any troop move across your field of view, you can start your next tactical move. That is first, get up to Hassan hamlet, by pass it and run all the way down to the dam bridge and second to have sufficient troops coming in order to attack and clear the hamlet.

It is possible to have a small force going up the mountain on the left and have it come abreast the cliff with the hamlet in full view down below. That way you might have an idea of what to do in order to clear it.

To summarize it doesn’t matter of what you are doing, but you should be able any time to protect and check your flanks as you are doing it for your forward frontage. If you forget about that, most of your casualties will arise from these flanking shots. That is true for the troopers and also for the vehicles.

From what you wrote up to now, the fight is not over, you might have up to now a total, minor and or tactical victory, but if you have too much casualties and vehicles destroyed it will be a bitter one at the end of the time limit and that even if you get a 1 to 4 casualties ratio.

Remaining

[Erwin]

I pretty much followed your proposed plan as outlined above except for one big exception: I conducted the road clearing as completely separate from the RHS village assault and clearing. I didn't see any reason to wait for the village clearing b4 advancing to Hill 54. (You could put down to impatience since the road troops would have done little else but sit and wait for an hour while the village was cleared. And I found the Taliban arty to be quite deadly if they could see me.

Re sending inf over the bridge, it seemed to me that I could have taken a lot more casualties if they had come on a minefield, gotten barraged by the quite effective enemy arty, or got blown up by an IED that for all I knew was at the end of the bridge.

Seems to me you are using your designer knowledge of where the minefields and IED's were placed to come up with your "ideal plan". I would have put IED's/mines at either end of the bridge so they were impossible to avoid. I think that the loss of a vehicle or significant inf (since the ANA squads cannot be broken down into smaller teams) is unavoidable (other than by luck) since a player has no idea where minefields and IED's are located.

So most initial ANA losses were from arty. Then I lost a couple entering the Hill 54 building since a couple enemy were in the bottom floor. More ANA losses incl one BTR came from a regular firefight with enemy both blocking the way to the Hassan Hamlet as well as from the left of the road.

Then I thought I had done well advancing an ANA platoon on the left of the road almost to the ridge, when the Taliban attack came out of the canyon, surprised and killed my German Recon team which was sent there just to see if there was anything there. (They did their job. Not sure how I would have found out about that attack had they not gone in harm's way.) Surprisingly, even with the Marders, 50 cal and other heavy fire, the Taliban seemed able to fire back accurately and inflict maybe 10 casualties including the 2nd BTR on my left of road platoon at 200-300 meters range. Seemed like the Taliban were rather elite or something. After that, I sent the Germans over to the left of the road and the Taliban attack was massacred as I reported earlier with no loss to the Germans.

Of course I want to continue despite my current Tactical Win. I have to decide how to winkle out the last surviving members of that attack without suffering any more friendly casualties. Then I can get on top of the ridge where the Taliban FO was KO'd. And hopefully spot and kill anything else around the Hamlet and Farm.

Since I had no idea if the ford I can use after clearing the RHS village has mines/IED's, plus the trees/orchard has irrigation trenches that could hide anything, it seems that it is taking at least another 30-45 minutes to make sure there are no enemy hiding there. Quite scary and dangerous operation. If I had waited for the Strykers and inf to get past the orchard and start up towards Hill 54, before getting across the bridge, I would be almost 2 hours into the scenario.

As a scenario that is fun to play, it is hard to have 2/3 to 3/4 of ones force just sitting around behind the initial hills (need to do that cos of the enemy arty) doing nothing until the right flank is secure. (It is pretty easy to suppress/KO the HMG on Hill 54, but after that, there is nothing to do other than try and get across the bridge, and deal with the ambushers in the irrigation ditches to the left of the bridge.

I think I am still not experienced enuff in handling AK-equipped ANA troops as the Taliban seem to be better shots than the ANA.

[snake_eye]

Hi Erwin,

You are right about your road clearing analysis. Sure, you are wondering what would be better to avoid the IED’s. As for myself knowing where they are should give me a slight edge over the enemy. However, I am not always sure of all right emplacements, having a certain tendency to forget about these after having done and played the scenario. You can bet that when I am playing it again, I usually have one or more casualties due to the mines having forgotten where they were !

Your idea to put IED’s at either end of the bridge is not bad, but in RL these spots are the one that are looked for. To deny the bridge access would be good only to prevent reinforcement to come to the rescue of the dam site in due time.

In RL the IED’s are never hidden in the same sort of locations twice in a row. They are off the roads, on it, on crossroads, on road sides, near houses, in gullies…..The way of triggering them is always different from one to the other to prevent the disposal teams to determine a constant signature.

In our tactical setting, the IED’s and mines are only there to slow down and cause casualties to the Blue forces. Preventing the Blue forces to move and deploy quickly with their tracks and vehicles brings the Red Mujahideen’s to fight on or near equal terms.

The enemy wants to deny the Blue forces of their high mobility facilities.

If you can not move the tracks and or vehicles quickly on logical IED’s and mines locations, you can at least move quickly recon men along the road to ascertain the risk.

They can be followed by a squad that will take a fire base position. Once that is done the other squad follows and takes another one a bit farther. That way you might pick up and neutralize the trigger men.The vehicles or tracks can follow once the area is considered safe.

Anyway don’t have your troops sitting in full view of the LHV, RHV and Center village.

Speed is essential to get to the high ground. That is Hill 54.

But you have to clear the left and right flanks and usually the RHV. If you don’t do so for the latter, it will be a sting in your flank. You won’t be able to secure the right flank. The LHV can be left alone for the time being, but have an eye on it.

Once Hill 54 is taken, you can move a Javelin’s team over there and the ANA or US FO

Once again, I must point out that to take Hill 54, a pincer move has to be done from the RHV and the main road, then on to the left hillocks (as soon as suppressing fire is done on the hill 54 building and tower). You can rely on the 2 MSG’s to deal with the tower. One MSG can do it from the airfield, the other one can move near the first bend of the road after having left the airfield compound. The Marder’s 20mm is better against the infantry and the light vehicles.

Yes, Hill 54 is clearly the main first objective. With it you will commandeer the high ground in front of the airfield, besides the observatory near the TAC tower and the tower itself.

About the ANA

The ANA 9 men squads have usually 6 AKM’s, 1 Rpg and 2 RpK’s. They can’t be split, but a squad can provide overwatch and covering fire for another one advancing and or assaulting the enemy. You can also deploy on the flanks of these squads a LMG team with its PKm or from a longer distance a HMG team with a DshK. Don’t forget the Plt HQ with 1 sniper SUd, 4 AKM’s and 2 RpK,s. They can provide a good reserve force.

You can use 2 forward and 1 back.

Besides the US trucks with their HMG can offer a good support with their suppressing fire.

The best would be to use the Marder’s with their rapid fire 20mm gun. Don’t move them in full view of the enemy recoilless gun (that is the same with the MSG's) Keep them in low grounds and or hidden by the small hillocks. Have them cross the open ground at full speed and don’t have them hunt the enemy in such places.

At this time we have taken Hill 54 and we are deploying in order to move against the center village and also to dash to the Dam site and secure the bridge.

Just to point out what I wrote about the slight hindsight that is conferred to a designer playing its own scenario here after are my casualties when I played it in April 2011.

I got a Major victory but I paid it a high cost , considering our standard.

24 Blue KIA 110 Mujahideen’s

31 WIA 59

2 MIA 4

5 AVL

2 OVL 15

Remaining

[Erwin]

I won't be able to play more probably till I get back end of July. But, what this scenario demonstrates is the virtue of patience. For a gamer that really sucks.

But, I can see that if you play it as if your life was at stake, your suggested strategy and tactics make sense.