Greece 1 turn surrender.

[Sapare]

I actullly had mean to bring this up about a week ago but I kinda forgot about this.

The way the Greek units spawn has to be edited because currently the system is VERY abuseable. Here is what I mean:

If the CP declares war on Greece(which gives a diplo hit for US I think) then they can use a horse unit to capture their 2nday capital before Greek ever spawns a unit in it.(becuase it takes till end of the turn to do so)

This would be ok because of the diplo hit, but a smart player will soon think of this:

What if I take a Ottoman detachment, put it on landing craft, ship it over to Athen, THEN declare war on Greece and instant capture Athen AND the 2ndary capital in exactly 1 turn.(Making any Entente move impossible)

I have not actully don this yet, but I know for almost certain that it would work.(The game I wanted to try it in was the game which showed me the whole "declare war/ride into 2ndary capital" and as such I had the idea to late in the game, this caused Greek to join 1 turn before my horse unit reached the border but the Ottoman unit still landed in athen and as such I know it would work.)

I know this might not sound as so much with the diplo hit and all, but seriously, Greek instant surrender can turn the tide of a whole war as it ruins Entente's ability to tie down A-H for at least another year. All I ask is that the unit which spawns in Greek's 2ndary Capital at the end of the first turn is rescripted so it spawns the moment the war starts.(Which leaves Athen open, but at least it makes instant surrender impossible)

[lettowvorbeck]

Sounds dastardly, but I would think a strong naval presence in the Aegean could stop this tactic with little trouble. I never thought of the specific situation you raise here, but in my pbem games I always have French-Italo-Anglo fleets and subs regularly patrolling the area.

[Sapare]

I want to bring up that I did this in Tripple Alliance where Entente Fleet Presence is strongly hampered, but I still think an imperfect player could easily have this happen to him.(While yes, you can patrol the ocean there is always a chance of him just by luck getting past you, it is a two to 3 turns distance from the closest Ottoman port.(which a good player will block witha sub)

And I still think the instant captured of the 2ndar capital should be prevented by instant spawning the corps.(All other countries do this, and let me remind you that this corps is no like the other Greek corps, it will ALWAYS spawn at the end of the first turn)

[Bill101]

Hi Sapare

This is an interesting question you raise, and I presume it's something done shortly after the Ottomans enter the war?

What I could do is add in a check so that Greece swings to the Entente if any Ottoman naval units leave the Sea of Marmara. The swing could vary percentage wise, so that only if they are extremely lucky would an Ottoman amphib reach Greece before Greece has joined the Entente.

Thus the chances of this are dramatically reduced, but for a bold and adventurous player there remains a tiny % chance of success.

How does that sound?

An alternative would be to give the Greeks a Detachment in Athens right from the start. It's certainly a safer solution.

[xwormwood]

I would'n vote for the suggestion, because it would "rob" the CP player the chances to use the Ottoman navis (even if he only wanted to sail toward Palestine harbors he would pull Greece into the war).

Wouldn't it be better (i'm really no editor expert) to instantly place a Greek detachment into the capital(s) once the state of war has been declared?

Another idea:

allow amphib invasions only after the amphib tech level 1 has been researched (amphib level 0 = no amphib units allowed).

If you don't want to punish a single country with an amphib ban (because of level 0) you could let them start with one free chit in the amphib tech.

It would take several turns before a tech advance, and with this several turns before amphibs would be possible.

Another idea:

let only Marines conduct amphib operatioins (and allow more of them to be build).

[lettowvorbeck]

I would vote for the Athens detachment. It's simple and has no chance of raising other complications.