Guest Scott Clinton Posted November 10, 1999 Share Posted November 10, 1999 I ran a series of tests using the hot seat option to see how to best set anti-tank ambushes and it seems to me that infantry simply will NOT target a Sherman moving at "FAST". I thought it was a fluke the first time but I had the Sherman drive THROUGH Reisberg...turn around...and come back...and then do it all over again...several times. Watching the German infantry I can see them 'get up' and target the Sherman as it moves past but even though it is in thier LOS for a good 100m they NEVER fire a panzerfaust. Once I allowed the Sherman to stop or slow down to a stanard "MOVE" it was toast. Anyone else notice this? I think perhaps that either the AI is not reaching a 'to-hit' percentage because of the speed of the Sherman. Perhaps this should be adjusted a little? I ran the 'test' three times with three different tanks using infantry that were on ambush, not on ambush, hidden and not hidden. But, I would be interested in hearing what someone else gets when they 'test' this. Try it and let me know what you see. ------------------ The Grumbling Grognard Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest John Maragoudakis Posted November 10, 1999 Share Posted November 10, 1999 Thanks Scott. You can be sure my shermans will haul ass to enemy support positions. Great way to do recon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Scott Clinton Posted November 10, 1999 Share Posted November 10, 1999 Well...at least until the AI gets 'tweaked', if it has not already been 'tweaked'. ------------------ The Grumbling Grognard Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Big Time Software Posted November 11, 1999 Share Posted November 11, 1999 We're looking into this one. Although PFs have worked like champs for over a year, there might have been something messed up recently. It is at least troublesome enough to poke around and see what is what Steve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Big Time Software Posted November 11, 1999 Share Posted November 11, 1999 Scott, we think two things are biting you in the butt here. Both are intentional, but one needs a tweak. 1. Even 76m away is not a high % shot even for a PF 100. Then add to this that it's most likely a Green or Regular squad doing the targeting, and you might have to sit there for a while before they take a shot at that range. These guys are (purposely) not supposed to win any Iron Crosses out there. 2. There is a small time delay (about 2 seconds) before a squad will fire at a vehicle with their PFs. This is to simulate prepping the thing for lining up the shot. Unfortunately, this screws up trying to target a fast moving vehicle a little unrealistically. So Charles is going to do a tweak here. Steve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
guachi Posted November 11, 1999 Share Posted November 11, 1999 What was the muzzle velocity on a PF100? Something like 50 m/s? At max speed a Sherman can move about 15 m/s. At a range of 75m it's going to take 1.5 seconds for the shell to reach the tank. In 1.5 seconds the Sherman has moved 22.5 m. Talk about leading the target! The analogy might not be quite accurate, but it reminds me of a quarterback throwing a deep pass to a wide receiver running full speed down the field. Possible for the highly trained but probably damned near impossible for the untrained. If I only had one PF, I don;t think I'd fire either. Any tank moving that fast probably isn't a threat to me anyway. (Unless it is moving straight at me, that is ) Jason Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
guachi Posted November 11, 1999 Share Posted November 11, 1999 Wait a minute.... I just noticed the title of this topic. Who would want to fire at my Aunt Sherma? Or even a whole bunch of Aunt Shermas? My Aunt Sherma can't move very fast anyway. Plugging her with a Panzerfaust should be easy. Jason (No, I don't really have an Aunt Sherma) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fionn Posted November 11, 1999 Share Posted November 11, 1999 Scott, The Germans in Last Defence ONLY have PF 30s.. With those little pea shooters the American tank would only be in range for, literally, a couple of seconds as it roared past. I bet if they had PF100s then the infantry could track the target and fire at 50 or 60 metres. I think the PF30s lack of range is skewing the figures here.. Those things were almost useless YUCK ! ------------------ ___________ Fionn Kelly Manager of Historical Research, The Gamers Net - Gaming for Gamers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Scott Clinton Posted November 11, 1999 Share Posted November 11, 1999 Steve: I think the time delay may be a major influence but it is not the entire 'problem'. Because between the time the Sherman appears and drives past and then disappears behind the team is WELL over 2 seconds. Both of these teams are 'Regular'. I posted them in patches of woods on either side of the road and had the Sherman drive up and down the road (several times) between them. The closest the Sherman got was < 10 meters! When the tank got to about 30m they would target it, then they would 'track' it by changing facing as it went past (appeared as they were 'just watching it go by' ). Could there be an issue with the unit being forced to change facing as the tank went past? Perhaps in conjunction with the '2 second PF prep. delay'? Someone mentioned lead-time, but I don't think this should be too much of an issue when the tank is driving either directly toward you or directly away from you. Fionn: I am pretty sure the PF are PF100s in this game. But either way when the tank drives down the road, through an ambush marker and continues on to less than 10m of my ambushing team they should at least take a shot IMO. ------------------ The Grumbling Grognard Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fionn Posted November 11, 1999 Share Posted November 11, 1999 I think your Shermans are out of the "kill zone" by the time the PF units feel they've tracked it enough. Lead-time has been reduced in the latest builds IIRC. ------------------ ___________ Fionn Kelly Manager of Historical Research, The Gamers Net - Gaming for Gamers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doug Beman Posted November 11, 1999 Share Posted November 11, 1999 guachi, after we pop your Aunt Sherma with a PF we're going to get your Uncle Cromwell with some artillery. DjB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darstand Posted November 11, 1999 Share Posted November 11, 1999 PF-100 Vs Sherman Frontal armor. Can a PF-100 damage a Sherman from the front? Do I need to use a special key to use PF's? I ask because I had a squad pop up 28 meters directly in front of the Sherman (and I targeted it as well), and the wacky Germs decided to pivot and fire at some infantry 40 meters away. Needless to say by the end of the turn that squad was dead. Am I going to have to rush The Sherman for a flank shot? ------------------ "Armchair Generals never lose any men"-Darstand Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Scott Clinton Posted November 11, 1999 Share Posted November 11, 1999 Darstand: ANY PF is able to destroy a Sherman from ANY angle IF they hit. I to have had a lot of trouble getting my infantry teams/squads to fire on armor, esp. when there were enemy infantry within 100m that they could shoot at instead. This is the reason why I was doing this 'test' in order to find out how best to use my PF. I am not completely satisfied with the ability of the AI to us my infantry's PF in the BETA demo. But it is my understanding that this is being worked on for the final build of CM. ------------------ The Grumbling Grognard Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fionn Posted November 11, 1999 Share Posted November 11, 1999 Yeah, I think infantry are using PFs better now than in the beta demo. ------------------ ___________ Fionn Kelly Manager of Historical Research, The Gamers Net - Gaming for Gamers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest L Tankersley Posted November 11, 1999 Share Posted November 11, 1999 Are they less eager to use PFs against infantry in the open? I've seen a lot of that in the Reisberg scenario. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Freyland Posted November 12, 1999 Share Posted November 12, 1999 Forgive my ignorance, but with all my enjoyment of the demo, I still do not know what a Panzerfaust is exactly. Help? Jonathan ------------------ For the last time, you don't need antibiotics! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Scott Clinton Posted November 12, 1999 Share Posted November 12, 1999 It is was a small disposable anti-tank weapon used by the Germans late in the war. It went through several improvements. The number after the PF## in the names we use in CM is roughly the weapons maximum range. All you could ever want to know is located at this EXCELLENT site: http://www.geocities.com/Augusta/8172/panzerfaust.htm ------------------ The Grumbling Grognard Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
K_Tiger Posted November 12, 1999 Share Posted November 12, 1999 Guachi... 1.5m/sec he he.. maybe the "Tim Taylor" Sherman. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doug Beman Posted November 12, 1999 Share Posted November 12, 1999 Freyland, ever watch "Red Dawn?" Or, maybe better known, "Rambo" where Stallone fires that rocket into the helicopter gunship? That was an RPG that he fired; the RPG is a grandson of the Panzerfaust. Concept: shaped-charge-on-a-stick (like a bigass candyapple) with a little rocket booster. Or, better yet, a goddamn big bottle-rocket. I'm posting quite a lot today; work is slow. DjB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest John Maragoudakis Posted November 12, 1999 Share Posted November 12, 1999 I thought that was obvious, A Panzerfaust is a pancake that is cooked in a special toaster. Usually served in festivals like oktoberfest in southern bavaria. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Freyland Posted November 13, 1999 Share Posted November 13, 1999 O-o-ohhhhh! ------------------ For the last time, you don't need antibiotics! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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