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Norman D Student

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  1. Upvote
    Norman D Student got a reaction from sttp in The Schizophrenia of the Tac AI   
    A good discussion, with some interesting ideas.
    But I wonder if a basic part of the problem here is the name, 'Artificial Intelligence'. Is that what it really is? Well, yes and no. 
    What is NOT being modeled by the so-called AI is some Spock-like beings who manage to be coldly rational at all times, along the lines of the 'idealized rational actors' of so much economic theory.
    What IS being modeled is human beings, soft squishy things that go into combat with (a) training at doing certain things preferably without thinking too hard about them, plus (b) variable, hard-to-model individual and group dynamics that can cause them to flip out completely under the stresses of combat. As you go up the ranks, you add more and more of what is more traditionally considered 'intelligence' in the 'AI' sense: (c) observe, assess, plan, execute, etc.
    So I like to think of the AI as in fact 'artificial training + [psychological] vulnerability + intelligence' -- that is, as ATVI. 
    It seems to me that the I part works pretty well. (I'm an experienced computer programmer, so I'm somewhat aware of what goes into programming AI, though it is not my specialty.) Though I do find that the line-of-sight modeling is a bit dodgy, and that plays a significant role in the I.
    Most of the complaints in this thread are about the V, where there are really two distinct problems: When does the V take over? That is, when do the pixeltruppen totally lose it? Second, what do they do when they lose it?
    Let's take the second of these first. It is not a simple thing to use a deterministic system (a computer program) to model the behavior of someone who has gone nuts. That said, my limited reading about and zero experience of combat stress does not make me think that CM has got this area quite right yet. For example, I've repeatedly seen pixeltruppen freak out when behind bocage, and then run through the nearest opening to the other side of the bocage -- which is where the fire is coming from that has prompted their freakout. My reading suggests that this is not the most common expression of combat breakdowns. I'm more inclined to think that going into a very long-lasting, fetal-position suppressed state should be pretty common (one reads lots of accounts of that happening on battlefields). From what I see, it isn't common in CM. And that should be followed closely by running AFAP *away* from the enemy. Which does happen a fair bit in CM, so better marks for that. Freezing in a standing position should happen more (I don't think I've seen it happen at all). But running blindly *toward* the danger should, IMO, be much rarer than it is in CM. So I would judge this area as one where there's room for improvement.
    Then there is the question of how readily do the pixeltruppen lose their minds. I think the US, Cdn, Polish and Brit forces in CMBN are too psychologically fragile. Haven't commanded the Germans, so I can't say. But read, for example, James Holland's _Normandy '44_, and one gets the impression that the real troops endured a lot more torture before becoming shell-shocked than do the CMBN pixeltruppen.
    One specific complaint I would have in this area is that it would be more realistic for combat fatigue to take out individual pixeltruppen (like casualties) than for it take out teams, which seems to be what usually happens.
    So: Another area for improvement, I think.
    Which brings us to the T part of ATVI, training. This, it seems to me, is an area where CM gets mixed marks. What I've noticed is things like this: Germans are super quick to use grenades in appropriate situations, while Allied pixeltruppen ... aren't. Indeed, it just never seems to cross their minds! I rarely become so unhinged as to talk to my pixeltruppen out loud, but 99% of those times, what I'm saying is, "Throw. Your. Grenades. Pretty please?" and other things to that effect.
    Apologies for such a long ramble. But I'd be curious if any of these thoughts ring true to anyone else.
  2. Like
    Norman D Student got a reaction from Vacillator in The Schizophrenia of the Tac AI   
    A good discussion, with some interesting ideas.
    But I wonder if a basic part of the problem here is the name, 'Artificial Intelligence'. Is that what it really is? Well, yes and no. 
    What is NOT being modeled by the so-called AI is some Spock-like beings who manage to be coldly rational at all times, along the lines of the 'idealized rational actors' of so much economic theory.
    What IS being modeled is human beings, soft squishy things that go into combat with (a) training at doing certain things preferably without thinking too hard about them, plus (b) variable, hard-to-model individual and group dynamics that can cause them to flip out completely under the stresses of combat. As you go up the ranks, you add more and more of what is more traditionally considered 'intelligence' in the 'AI' sense: (c) observe, assess, plan, execute, etc.
    So I like to think of the AI as in fact 'artificial training + [psychological] vulnerability + intelligence' -- that is, as ATVI. 
    It seems to me that the I part works pretty well. (I'm an experienced computer programmer, so I'm somewhat aware of what goes into programming AI, though it is not my specialty.) Though I do find that the line-of-sight modeling is a bit dodgy, and that plays a significant role in the I.
    Most of the complaints in this thread are about the V, where there are really two distinct problems: When does the V take over? That is, when do the pixeltruppen totally lose it? Second, what do they do when they lose it?
    Let's take the second of these first. It is not a simple thing to use a deterministic system (a computer program) to model the behavior of someone who has gone nuts. That said, my limited reading about and zero experience of combat stress does not make me think that CM has got this area quite right yet. For example, I've repeatedly seen pixeltruppen freak out when behind bocage, and then run through the nearest opening to the other side of the bocage -- which is where the fire is coming from that has prompted their freakout. My reading suggests that this is not the most common expression of combat breakdowns. I'm more inclined to think that going into a very long-lasting, fetal-position suppressed state should be pretty common (one reads lots of accounts of that happening on battlefields). From what I see, it isn't common in CM. And that should be followed closely by running AFAP *away* from the enemy. Which does happen a fair bit in CM, so better marks for that. Freezing in a standing position should happen more (I don't think I've seen it happen at all). But running blindly *toward* the danger should, IMO, be much rarer than it is in CM. So I would judge this area as one where there's room for improvement.
    Then there is the question of how readily do the pixeltruppen lose their minds. I think the US, Cdn, Polish and Brit forces in CMBN are too psychologically fragile. Haven't commanded the Germans, so I can't say. But read, for example, James Holland's _Normandy '44_, and one gets the impression that the real troops endured a lot more torture before becoming shell-shocked than do the CMBN pixeltruppen.
    One specific complaint I would have in this area is that it would be more realistic for combat fatigue to take out individual pixeltruppen (like casualties) than for it take out teams, which seems to be what usually happens.
    So: Another area for improvement, I think.
    Which brings us to the T part of ATVI, training. This, it seems to me, is an area where CM gets mixed marks. What I've noticed is things like this: Germans are super quick to use grenades in appropriate situations, while Allied pixeltruppen ... aren't. Indeed, it just never seems to cross their minds! I rarely become so unhinged as to talk to my pixeltruppen out loud, but 99% of those times, what I'm saying is, "Throw. Your. Grenades. Pretty please?" and other things to that effect.
    Apologies for such a long ramble. But I'd be curious if any of these thoughts ring true to anyone else.
  3. Like
    Norman D Student got a reaction from Sgt.Squarehead in Trying to buy the CMBN but the website won't let me   
    That is weird. I started having this problem about a week or two ago. Came back to it today and decided on an all-out attack on the problem.
    Anyway, I've got my login all sorted out, and I've placed my order. Fields of Normandy, here I come!  (I've already played the demos pretty extensively, so I know what I'm in for!)
    Thank you both for your help.
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