BTR
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Posts posted by BTR
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Relative to all other re-armament programs (especially the damn navy) infantry equipment is peas.
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Information above is outdated. Select element (and full equipment) testings were done over the course of last four or so years. Currently Ratnik elements that have been completed have been cleared for service. Arctic brigade, and troops in Syria have been already spotted using the kit. Part of Ratnik kit have been available for more than just this year.
Ratnik includes:
- 5.45mm Rifle System
- 5.45mm Improved accuracy general purpose round
- 7.62mm Rifle System
- 7.62mm DMR Sniper System
- 7.62mm Improved AP Sniper Round
- 7.62mm MG System
- 9mm Special System
- 30mm GL System
- 12.7mm Special AMR System
- 12.7 Special System
- 30mm ALG
- Combat Knife
- Complete modular multi-weather uniform
- CnC Recon and Comms suite
- Individual full body flack protection suite
- Individual ballistic protection
- Individual Load carry equipment
- General purpose collimator sight
- General purpose optical sight
- Thermal sight
- Misc equipment like First aid kit, water decontamination and etc.
We've seen most of this in general service, some things have been available for years and the most important pieces of Ratnink - comms, personal protection and uniforms have been shipped in large quantities. I'm sure you've seen the most recent example. The main controvery remains around 5.45 and 7.62 rifle systems, almost everything else has been selected and completed
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Yup, both that one and the divisional multiplayer guide as well.
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Thanks for the clarification. What is the status of Ratnik II?
Unknown, the program timeframe to completion of around 10 or so years has been given, but that is about it.
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- Russian troops already have Ratnik in CMBS.
- Ratnik isn't an equivalent of Land Warrior system, Ratnik II is.
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AEK was the only one to have met Ratnik specs from the get go, providing both 5.45 and 7.62 calibers on the same platform. AK-12 has not done that yet, but I'm KK has a much better lobby for individual firearms then ZiD. AN-94 was a thing in-itself, not something an army would adopt.
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Keep in mind that BS is a fictional FUTURE conflict. Trying to compare to present force structures while interesting and of value doesn't necessarily invalidate the decisions that when into the ToE. There are also assumptions in the back story that don't correlate to how the conflict has actually developed.
"Combat Mission: Black Sea is a military simulation depicting a fictional 2017 conflict between NATO and Russia in Ukraine."
Fictional, or semi-fictional assets are readily available to give us a feel for "alternative future conflict". They aren't mutually exclusive at all with accurate current ToE representation though, especially if missing equipment is a simple port from other games :).
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Split squads produce more contact reports amplifying your forces and reduce focused fire.
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I don't particularly want to see new nations in the immediate future. Current forces perfected sound a lot more interesting to me.
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In an old report, Charles indicated that the game is using the tandem "Arkan" version of the ATGM. Do you have a save of the test?
I see, "Arkan" is the codename for 9M117M1 missile family, which definitely should be tandem. 9M117M missile family is called "Kan". In any case, both are fairly dated, standard tech at this point, with "Kan" being adopted for service in 1989, and "Arkan" following suite in 2005. For some reason I used to think that only "Bahcha-U" weapons platform could use Arkan, I no longer think that is the case since no limitations are written in by the manufacturer.
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Interesting, seems that way indeed. I can't find any direct numbers on 3UBK10M-3 (9M117M round) proliferation, but a number of more advanced 3UBK23-3 (9M117M1 round) were purchased as part of BMD-4 package back in 2005.
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Journalists be journalists. Most of the stuff you wrote, bar the first two points has been available to serial soviet tanks at least since the 70's and are commonly desired tank traits since the end of WW2. To be fair, a comfortable crew compartment for all three individuals is something to praise that is not available on western tanks. There are similar videos on the Koalistiya and Kurganets produced by Zvezda TV. Bumerang remains a dark horse.
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If you do some tests you'll see that T-64 Bulat reactive armor stops the BMP-3 ATGM.
Fair enough, but either I don't know all the anti-tandem properties of Nozh ERA, or 9M117M is not represented correctly. Since I can't test now, does all ERA defeat BMP-3 missiles, or just T-64BM's?
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Consider that the ATGM BMP-3 use are ineffective against the Bulat reactive armor...
All 9K116 system related missiles beginning from 9M117M are tandem charged.
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I am away till the 12th of Jan, so the document probably won't get updated. Just letting you know.
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As of now, "huge" battle point setup will support around 2~3 lower quality BTG's per side with or without some higher level support. I never managed to load that past 83%, but I shudder at the "fun" that scale would bring.
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I think играбельность translates to gameplay, at least that would fit well in the sentence
. Our Ukrnanian ORBAT intimate knowledge is lacking in comparison to our Russian document, so input is appreciated. Otherwise:
3) You are indeed right about BMP-1U's, we will remove them from our doc. However we can't agree on absence of BMP-1's, independently of TOE concordance or other political decisions. From the information we have gathered, BMP-1 types were in constant use from 2010 to 2015. Even if some companies have kept BMP-1's for training purposes other formations, for example 1st Tank Brigade have mechanized companies made of BMP-1P's entirely. Indirectly to support us, lostarmour has identified a number of 1's and 1P's lost from regular formations.
6) Looks like you are right since the 9P148 along 9P149 are seen so seldom. Do you have any sources we could take a peek at (Ukrainian language is fine) to assess this information? Also, what composition do AT battalions (ПТАДн) have then? 3 x MT-12 Batteries?
8) We heard about these changes, but could not asses what formations (Brigade recon companies or Separate recon battalion companies). In which case, which one is it? Sep. RB? Are BTR-80's also being withdrawn from 101st Guard Brigade (101-я ОБрО)? In any case we'll add this and other information you've given us to our document.
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A conflict in Ukraine, even if against a smallish NATO force probably wouldn't draw the country to fall under war regulations. With Crimea threatened, I suppose that would make a difference.
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I was hoping for MVD/Internal Troops, personally.
Well, as the name suggests, they are Internal. I'm just not too sure what place they have in a foreign conflict :). It is along the lines of sending SWAT to Iraq.
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Here we go with our counterparts. This is version 1, so please excuse grammar mistakes
and the like. Mechanized and Armored forces
Part 1 - Current weapon systems in service
In this section the author we will try to examine the current (as of end of 2015) equipment, composition and organisation used by the Ukrainian mechanized and armored units. Other branches might get a passing mention. Since the author is not a Ukrainian citizen, we will mention unit numbers, something we could not do for our Russian investigations.
Brief overview of current weapon systems in service:
1 - MBT
Ukranian armored and mechanized formations current have around 25 tank battalions in total. That amounts to just about 1000 tanks. The vast majority of these battalions is equipped with either T-64B, T-64B1, T-64BV or T-64BV1 variants, which make up 9%, 22%, 44% and 15% of total armor fleet respectively. Primary differences between T-64B and T-64BV lies in internal glacis configuration and K-1 ERA kits. Minor differences include older T-64B’s having inferior gun and subsequently inferior stabilization, and T-64BV’s having varied (obr. 85 and obr. 87) side ERA panel layout with newer models also having R-173 radios instead of outdated R-123Ms. Overall however, it would be safe to sum up Ukrainian armor fleet as being 90% T-64B variants, a third of which lack any ERA protection and have inferior glacis configuration. The latter variants are not segregated into separate formations and are present among T-64BV’s. For whatever reason, the only exception to this is 28th Separate Mechanized Brigade, which haв BV variants exclusively. Current rumors indicate that due to high rate of mechanical attrition during Donbass operations, a portion of T-64BV’s will be replaced by refurbished T-72AV’s. For example, the aforementioned 28th Separate Mechanized Brigade has already received a shipment of those tanks. There are also rumors of 128th Mountain Brigade having received T-72’s for service.
The only formation using T-64BM’s is 1st Separate Tank Brigade. This tank type attributes to only around 9% of the total armor fleet, which would safely warrant its inclusion in “uncommon” equipment list in CMBS. We are unaware of any future plans (extrapolating to 2017) to refurbish existing T-64BV’s in BM models.
Originally Ukrainian MO has ordered 10 T-84 “Oplot” tanks to be procured for domestic service, but could only finance a part of that deal. Therefore, of 10 total, 4 vehicles were sold to US, and of remaining 6, one was sent to the Land Forces Academy in Lvov. Last five vehicles were given to 92nd Separate Mechanized Brigade. As such, this is currently a very uncommon piece of equipment with no further known plans to purchase more vehicles. BM Oplot modification was never procured for domestic Ukrainian service, and as it currently stands with Thai contract, Ukrainian defense sector would more then likely be unable to deliver sufficient amount of these tanks even with proper funding.
Ukraine also has several other tank types in limited service. Nation guard has around 12 T-64BM1M which is a refitted T-64BV with upgraded ERA, and airmobile formations have several T-80B, T-80BV and T-80UD tanks at their disposal.
2 - IFV/APC
Ukrainian armed forces have around 42 Mechanized battalions, the majority of which are supplied with BMP’s. If we remove command vehicles and other miscellaneous BMP based equipment, current BMP composition is as follows: 71% are BMP-2’s, 18% are BMP-1P’s, 10% are BMP-1’s and 1% are BMP-1U’s. It is interesting to point out that Ukraine also has four BMP-3’s in service, two of which were actively engaged in Donbass operations as part of 30th Separate Mechanized Brigade.
There is no apparent system to BMP type assignment within battalions. It appears that any company can have mixed BMP-2 and BMP-1 fleets, which means that older equipment isn’t isolated into their own formations. BMP-1U’s are an exception, forming an entire company of 72nd Separate Mechanized Brigade. They are not found anywhere else though.
92nd Separate Mechanized Brigade is an interesting and isolated case, since it is the only mechanized brigade with battalions comprised entirely of BTR-70’s and BTR-60PB’s. It is suspected this is not a result of an experimental ORBAT, but rather a skeleton unit being reformed in absence of IFV’s.
Another isolated case is a recently formed 14th Separate Mechanized Brigade, of which one battalion is known to have only MT-LB’s with DShK’s. Since Ukraine generally has a large stockpile of MT-LB’s this variant might see more proliferation in the future.
To sum up, the most common IFV’s in service are BMP-2 and BMP-1P and BMP-1. Uncommon types include MT-LB and BTR-70. Limited equipment includes BMP-3 and BMP-1U. BTR-4 present in CMBS is currently not in mechanized unit service. It was originally passed over to the national guard. At present date, 95th airmobile brigade has received them as well. Current BTR-4 production allows the Ukrainians to field a full battalion (support vehicles included) every year. BTR-3E has a similar proliferation, with at least 30 being in service with the national guard and a number going to the airmobile troops.
Command vehicles types are split between BMP-2K, BMP-1KSh, BMP-1K and BMP-1PK. BMP-1 type command vehicles are usually found in tank battalions, while BMP-2 are more often found in mechanized ones. BTR-60PV’s (?) are sometimes also listed as command vehicles, but isn’t very proliferated. Around 6 vehicles have been reported in mechanized forces, and around 10 in airmobile forces.
Recon formations are fairly unified in their equipment. Typical force composition is based around BRM-1K, BMP-2 and BTR types. Most recon companies use BTR-80’s as their transport, however 17th Armored, 128th Mountain, 28th, 51st and 93rd Mechanized brigade recon companies use BTR-70’s. 24th Mechanized brigade recon companies use both, BTR-80’s and BTR-70’s.
Sapper companies use BTR-70’s almost exclusively, usually three per company.
3 - Artillery systems
Brigade artillery groups are present in all Brigades and are made up of two SPG battalions, one MLRS battalion and one AT battalion. Most of them use PRP-4’s, and only 1st Separate Tank Battalion has been spotted using PRP-3’s.
Artillery systems have a hight degree of unification, with first SPG Battalion almost always being 2S1’s and second being 2S3’s. MLRS systems are mostly BM-21, in some cased being BM-21U. AT Battalions use MT-12’s, with one in every three guns being MT-12R, and 9P148 systems. 9P149 are present, but appear to be much less common. In general command and miscellaneous vehicles for Artillery battalions look to be BRDM-2’s, including 2DI “Hazar” modernization. An interesting variation on usual artillery systems is present in AT Battalion of 93rd Brigade. It appears that a large portion (if not all) of the battalion is armed with D-48 guns. There are also reports of ZiS-3 and BS-3 guns being used by the AT Battalion of 30th Separate Mechanized Brigade.
Mechanised formations mortar systems are 2S12, PM-38, 2B9(M) and 2B14.
Carried ATGMs
“Stuna-P” ATGM (Skif in CMBS) was delivered to airmobile units in the total quantity of two complexes. It is not available to mechanized, armored and motorized line formations.
“Skif” ATGM was delivered to national guard units in the total quantity of seven complexes. It is not available to mechanized, armored and motorized line formations.
AT platoons sometimes also have a soviet mix of ATGM systems (9K111/9K111-1) with SPG-9 recoilless guns.
Motorised Battalions
- Currently mechanized brigades are being strengthened by surplus and storage equipment such as BMP-1’s, BTR-60PB’s and BRDM-2’s. Since a large part of these motorized battalions are ex-volunteer formations, unification and structure is fairly hard to track. Even if an official OOB exits, these battalions have not been supplied with enough resources to represent it. Ukrainian media paints a picture in which these battalions will try to copy mechanized formation, except tracked and wheeled armored vehicles will be replaced with trucks, and there will be no armored companies. Motorized Brigades are expected to have towed D-20’s as artillery support, D-44 as AT support, and AAA will be represented by mounted or towed ZU-23-2.
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Here's a quick update on what we are up to! Well, what we're willing to reveal just yet...
- Black Sea module: think Marines, Naval Infantry, and VDV, among other new forces. And new high-tech toys. I want to really flesh out American, Ukrainian, and Russian forces/equipment on all levels before moving on to new nationalities.
So Naval Infantry and VDV were fairly expected, but what other forces are we talking about here?
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How differently should a long rod penetrator be treated compared to AP shot / shell when it comes to over penetration?
Heh, I wander if this would be a good thesis question for some material physics student
. From what I've seen in simulations perpetrator energy vectors inside the material are not easily changed even if rod material may be. Empirical evidence points to slopes only working against APFSDS when LoS slope thickness is greater than gun caliber from which the penetration was launched. Then something like this happens:http://i.imgur.com/mm7O3tM.jpg
In short, long rod perpetrators are a lot more stable in their trajectory post-impact then other AP rounds.
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and the like. 
Russian army under equipped?
in Combat Mission Black Sea
Posted
Even with cuts, this years 50K have been pre-planned, which with '15 equipment is enough to outfit most of higher readiness formations. They might cut and stall on rifle adoptions, but that is nothing new.
In our "Russian infantry battalion structure" document we have examined exactly what is the current and foreseeable future state of Russian line and recon infantry. For cool toys wait for VDV modules.