Strategiclayabout
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Posts posted by Strategiclayabout
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Various questions
- I don't remember seeing the HQ supply chain thing working. Don't know if it's a bug, manual issue or something I/we don't understand but it seems HQs don't consider other HQs as supply sources (WWII Gold or WWI Break).
- About Finland: as I remember, you have to get very close to Leningrad, something like 2 or 3 tiles away. So you definitely need to get past Narva and Luga to show your might to the Finns
.- About France: "early" means as soon as you can get/operate units there and have good weather (meaning no snow). Then it's a MPPs choice: do you want more units, better ones, or a fresh group operated quickly to recover as much morale and readiness as possible before your offensive ?
- The more you wait, the more chances you'll face Brits, upgraded french tanks and anti-tank but worst of all, some kind of prepared defense in a continuous line between Luxembourg and the Channel.
ZOCs and retreats
- At this point your true enemy are ZOCs because it restrains your panzers higher mobility, you need a gap with any kind of supply line, pour your best in it and let enemy deentrench itself
. Concentrating demoralizing attacks (stukas & co) on 1 or 2 tiles can open the gap you need by forcing enemy retreats.- However that retreat "option" can also work against you: sometimes, you kill an unit guarding an objective then attack another before occupying that objective and the new foe will retreat in the tile you just cleared (gyaaaaah !). Usual result: you lose a turn
. - An enemy unit can retreat on any friendly controlled tile as a combat result if having low morale or taking high casualties. Enemy supply and ressources tiles will always be friendly to enemy units even if empty unless you occupy them. For other tiles you just need to move your units adjacent to them and your projected ZOCs will make them ineligible for retreat.
- That's why sometimes it's better to let an escape path to enemy units occupying important objectives so they can flee because if surrounded, they will have no other choice but fight to the last man.
- Actually, you can even use snow turns: combat won't work very well but you can reduce entrenchments or move in the gaps. I agree that kind of approach isn't historical at all but as I said, it's hard to redo all those french strategic mistakes.
Current game
- Gamewise, I think Axis divided its forces too much this time: even in 1941, it's hard to attack everywhere. Since you also bled MPPs in Atlantic and Reich industry (bombings), setting more limited objectives for Barbarossa could have help. Not getting Smolensk hurt you a lot in the center for supply. Cities are nearly always needed for deep offensive in good conditions
. - For supply/readiness in USSR: it takes longer for units to recover after losing steps, longer if in low supply, longer without being attached to an HQ, longer if being attached to a low level HQ and the russian winter event doesn't help at all (as well as movement and combat in bad weather) so it's quite usual to have atrocious stats for your units in early 1942. the only thing you can do is operate elite units out of USSR before winter to save their elite steps/experience/morale... But it has a cost, of course !
- By the way, the "intel" thing can also be used by Axis since they have the MPPs advantage at start, if you keep a chit there from the start as Germany, US probably won't have any decisive research bonus at any given time.
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How nice it is to be on the good end of the soviet club
!I think both of you now have a good grasp of the game and you're already creating your own evil plans.
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Hehe looking good so far, you still have ground to give for the summer of 1942 if needed, congratulations for destroying the first axis units in the East ^^ ! With bad supply and winter you'll keep piling up MPPs and troops with nearly no losses
. Glad to see USA in and bombing having big results. -
No no it's an anti car(rier)-jacking option, you never know when a (wolf)gang (hoho) will come around when you're parked near an island to get some fuel
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Hi there
,- Thanks for the AAR, nice brawl so far, nice move by Marc to kill that panzer ! One question to Happycat: seems you have 3 german and 1 italian figthers, 1 german tac bomber and 1 italian (not counting the two med bombers for Norway). Do you need them all in France ?
- I can understand the strike on Regia Marina surprised you but is there a reason you don't put a fighter around those ports after that first attack to make things a bit more complicated for Royal Navy carriers ? Strategic choice ? Or maybe think they'd retreat thinking you'd think to send those planes
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- It's possible to have France surrender in june but not easy. You have to attack early with more troops (letting research a bit depleted) and damage french NM just below 50% before taking Paris to get a instant "shock effect" with the fall of the capital (NM going to 0). Then capital won't transfer to Bordeaux and you're free to prepare Sealion.
- The thing is to achieve this you have to destroy a good chunk of french forces, what happened at Dunkerque. The historical result is such a disaster it's hard to make as many mistakes playing Allies.
- Of course, overall result can also be favorably affected for Axis by UK not sending troops in France.
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- About british MPPs, yes it matters ! Maybe US and USSR win the game for Allies but UK can lose it for them
. The way UK plays is also about gaining strategic initiative in the West as early as possible. Anyway, better kill those Brits while you can (especially in low supply), you don't want to face them later, upgraded with support, when your panzers are busy somewhere else. It will be less units in England if you go for Sealion or in Africa to pressure Italians. - UK can't develop everything, they have to prey on Axis weaknesses (research or tactical situation). Just think about what happens if UK manages to take a port in France during summer 1941 or 1942... Remember how operating costs are punishing (especially for elite upgraded units), you don't want to play ping pong between Moscow and Paris
.- Brits' role is to force Germany to divert MPPs to guard against POSSIBLE threats, not that much actual ones and that's why they have to be active whenever they can. Take bombing: UK can do it or not, just having the bombers around forces you to keep assets in the West while they can sneak in the MED to bomb the hell out of Italy.
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Hi Colin I,
Just my own 5 cents: I think I remember you have to do something like activate the download on your battlefront account when receiving an email with serial number, maybe something went wrong there ?
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Good good ^^ ,
With the mine bombed and the one still in your hands that's around 40 MPPs per turn Stalin won't have to face later. Now counter-attack with your B1bis tanks and capture Berlin ! Er... Actually no, better defend Paris
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- Hehe, that corps on the mine will be a pain for Germans and it also somehow "protects" Luxembourg by adding its zone of control in front of the Capital.
- Fighters need to be in attack range of your bomber target to escort
.- The other solution is to send your fighter as far as they can near the target to engage interceptors and free the way for bombers but with fighters having two interceptions per turn it's hard to waste all of them. Depends how many planes each side has around.
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Seems the Pole dance was costly for german tourists
. Allies situation is quite depressing at start so any axis MPP or step you can kill is good for morale (not allied countries morale, YOUR morale as a player ). You have to be the buzzing mosquito in Hitler's bedroom ^^ !P.S.: sure, would be glad to play a game one of these days
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- Yep there were some mistakes on USSR side but as usual I kept my mouth shut while you were playing except to provide "legitimate" data
:Fortifications
- Fortifications around Minsk are not a good idea because they can be flanked quite easily and Germans will arrive quickly with a good deal of power left.
- The main idea of fortifications is to force a costly frontal assault or an offensive delay by having the attacker shift units around it.
- Fortifications alone are still vulnerable, you need to pack every dfensive bonus you can to make it a toothbreaker.
- Usually that means building them in the back in narrow areas, to extend natural defensive positions.
- Another thing is building them far in the back gives you more time to build more fortifications and extend the lines or double them.
- It will also give you a good chance of having bad weather (meaning no axis air power) when panzers close in, increasing your defensive chances.
- Furthermore, try to build fortifications where you'll only need 3 sides (a front and two corners), the time gained with that alone can buy you one or two extra fortified tiles.
- Also put units in them long enough before enemy come close so they have time to fully entrench and back them with every possible support (artillery, air units, HQs, ships...) it's easier to protect those units behind fortifications !
- One thing that can seem strange: don't hesitate to park your tanks on fortifications or cities and use them as static defense, they will be able to demolish incoming units (especially infantry on clear tiles) while taking less losses, having good supply and bonuses against enemy tanks !
- That's also why in some areas it can be very interesting to build your fortifications on defensive terrain but in FRONT of rivers to maximize your counter-attack power and rotate tanks in fortifications while enemy units are sitting ducks on open tiles
.Key points
- There are various strategies to defend but there are some favorable points like Riga and its river, the Kiev-Crimea line, the Leningrad-Moscow line, Rostov and the Don, Caucasus mountains...
- Early on with Germans in full force and supply, it's just too hard to defend. You have to give ground and buy time with cheap units blocking supply points (corps and AT) with some armies to provide better defense at some key locations.
- Keep your tanks away with good HQ and supply, observe where panzers go, try to guess german main objectives for 41 and attack full force when nazi supply go down and gaps in the lines begin to open between army groups.
- You don't need to target panzers at all costs, if you have a good shot go for it but don't expose your own tanks if you can avoid it, prey on lesser axis units, they'll have to travel from the border to reach the front again, Germans will have less troops for anti-partisan duty and panzers will become more vulnerable with less infantry to cover their flanks !
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- Unlikely but possible. Allies would have needed luck with weather and to be more agressive very quickly in the West and Med with early landings.
- USSR still had some room to maneuver and retreat but it would have been complicated to hold until winter while protecting critical points.
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Hi ninduski
,I think you lose all the surprise and fun without fog of war. It just becomes a matter of brute force, your enemy will always know where and when you plan to attack.
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Strange to see those fortifications empty at Minsk, seems Stalin was surprised by Barbarossa
. Kiev taken in July ? That's very good for Axis. Seems Soviets didn't expect a strong attack from Romania or maybe there is some kind of evil communist plan at work since the north was also nearly empty... -
- Losing Malta is always bad but how bad it is depends on the situation in the Med. As long as you keep the Med open (Gibraltar and Suez) it's manageable.
- It's worse if Allies are already in a difficult situation, less important if you have Tobrouk as another road bump and italian fleet more or less under control.
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- You're welcome
. Glad to see you're enjoying the bombing game ^^ .- In one game I made the mistake to let bombers roam freely for some turns and it was a disaster, the drain on axis economy was enormous, never again ! So I'd say it's (bad) experience
.- By the way, one thing France can do before Germany invade is take the Saar mines if Nazis arn't cautious, it's difficult for starting armies low on movement because of zones of control and hill terrain but a corps can sneak in and even if destroyed it's worth the cost !
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- About bombing, the thing is when you reduce a target to 0 supply, it will grow back to full strength very slowly giving a cumulative effect.
- Say you have a 20 MPPs mine with 10 supply and reduce it to 0 your enemy will lose 20MPPs this turn, 18 the next, 16 the following (admitting your bombers don't bomb it to 0 again
). - Add to that the industry tech modifier apply on your base MPPs so you'll kill more MPPs than you actually bomb.
- Better economic targets are:
1) own oil wells with railway to capital (base 30 MPPs/10 supply)
2) conquered oil wells with railway to own capital (base 24MPPs/8 supply)
3) own mines and capitals with railway to national capital (base 20 MPPs/10 supply)
4) conquered mines and capitals with railway to own capital (base 16MPPs/8 supply)
5) oil wells without railway to capital (base 15 MPPs/5 supply)
6) own cities with railway to capital (base 10 MPPs/10 supply)
7) mines without railway to capital (base 10 MPPs/5 supply)
8) cities without railway to capital (base 5 MPPs/5 supply)
- Better strategic targets are cities and ports:
1) you kill MPPs
2) units can't use that tile to operate below 5 supply
3) new units can't be deployed on or adjacent to that tile
4) enemy will need a HQ or another supply source nearby to have decent combat stats
- Keep an eye on enemy aerial cover because a bombing campaign can cost you a lot of MPPs if your bombers take too much damage
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Thanks for the tech screens
.Nothing in AA tech for Soviets ? Remember those stukas of yours ruining tanks from last game
?Just kidding, playing defense will help protect your units but you'll need AA at some point.
I suppose it depends how much Germany has invested in ground attack aircraft.
Praying with you for infantry tech to come !
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Interesting
. Since I'm reading both AARs, the different styles makes me think I'm not watching the same events twice and if you have less work to do to put it together, even better . It also probably allows you to focus on main action spots ! -
I think it's because Alexander HQ was destroyed after being reduced several steps so its base supply was reduced below the value allowing half-purchase
.So you want AT guns now
? Sorry that was mean . -
Stupid question: I don't see any french anti-tank unit, any in production ?
For spare MPPs, you can always stock them to reinforce/rebuild units later once Germans begin to vaporize your units
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- Diplomacy on Iraq O_O ? That's a first ! I wonder if it's worth the cost but why not, let's see if you get something out of it
.- I think the Germans have researched silent mode for panzers after finding it worked so well for subs, now panzers advance without a sound
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As usual only my opinion, keep that in mind while reading
: Sealion:
- Yeah, too much too late, especially given the costs to operate/amphib/transport. The usual window to avoid a failed Barbarossa is june/october 40 but benefits arn't that great unless you have a clear MED strategy.
- You still get:
* easier diplo with Spain and Turkey (though Turkey will take more time as it begins fully neutral)
* no base for allied intensive bombing against german industry
* delayed/more difficult Overlord
* more MPPs
* better protection for Norway convoys
* more bases for subs and less allied help to USSR
* the chance to invade Ireland
Minors:
- Delaying Barbarossa led to the loss of all balkanic minors and since Axis never came close to Leningrad, Finns never bothered to join either, that is a lot of units and MPPs thrown by the window (thousands of MPPs
), Germany can't afford to lose all those free units, with Italians that's nearly half of all Axis forces in 1941-42.- I also wonder why Axis didn't "finish the job" at some point: if Hitler goes heavy in the West, better do it all the way and seize Portugal, Vichy & co to get plunder/MPPs and put modern units to defend critical tiles. It will anger USA but with a good timing (late 41) it doesn't speed up their entry that much.
- You noticed Italy was very passive in North Africa. Depending on german strategy, Benito has several choices to make: numbers for rear duty behind Germans or quality to fight on par with Allies. And you'll have to chose between land, air and naval forces for tech and production.
- When declaring on a minor, roll over it ! Bring a small but strong balanced force (air/tank/infantry/HQ) and don't waste time (think Greece, here), go for the capital. You don't know how soon you'll need those troops and you don't want them away from good supply and railroads too long.
USA:
- They're very strong. Once they land, especially with the help of "warping arrows", Axis has only 2-3 turns to deal with beachheads before they grow enough to get good supply. The main catch is that you have to time it with some kind of soviet pressure in the East to keep panzers and stukas busy. Fake landings or multiple ones can be a lot of help to confuse Hitler.
- Except for Overlord, allied landings will usually lack heavy air support early so Axis has a chance to defend with a strong mobile reserve. Give ground in USSR if needed to free up units, that's also why you need a proper Barbarossa: to have strategic depth when USA comes in.
HQs:
- They have a nice attachment range so I tend to keep the better ones in the back and push the worst ones forward where I need supply.
Middle-East:
- When UK move capital to Egypt, it makes all ressources around more valuable and there are a lot. The capital is more vulnerable than in Canada but as Cairo is a victory objective, it gives better chances to defend it with better supply and a protected sealane with USA (Suez/Red Sea).
- With a rail connection to the capital all ressources will have 3 more supply points when conquered (= +9MPPs per oil well, +6MPPs per capital, +3MPPs per city, I let you do the math).
- Those ressources are poorly defended and Turkey is shielding Allies from a direct attack though it will be angered a bit by agressive moves in the area.
- Allies could even have taken Turkey without much trouble with Soviets roaming free in Romania/Bulgaria. On the other side, invading Turkey/ME can also be great for Axis. Sealion can help to get Turkey with diplo but it will take time anyway.
Force pools:
- You saw it, at some point, you need all those small units to guard your conquests, they won't stop Allies but they will delay them and avoid some bad surprises.
- Axis can't be like USSR or USA and need to concentrate forces on the decisive point, the shift towards Ukraine when the north and center were crumbling put Barbarossa out of focus for no strategic gain was a great, fun but dangerous move.
- Closing the MED can help a lot by reducing the spots to defend against USA landings, allowing more strategic flexibility and stronger Axis reserves.
USSR:
- Every allied player has this "demoralization" time in 41-42 when experienced/teched Axis units just roll over everything but using space, weather and cheap units usually allow to gain enough time to survive. Here, conditions were great for Blitzkrieg with unentrenched enemy without AA tech and in lower supply. Without AA tech, better wait for bad weather or use terrain bonuses to attack with tanks.
- Here USSR had a lot of time to prepare and more MPPs thanks to many turns with high mobilization. USSR industry base is huge so the longer they are low on MPPs the better.
- It's more interesting to invest diplo chits in USSR for Allies than Axis, it's costly but it can disrupt Hitler's plans or force him to waste MPPs on his own diplo chits.
Hope you found it interesting, I probably forgot some things so feel free to point them out
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Clownmunism circus with its red nose and its incredible human bullets, yay
!More seriously, I'm wondering if the Nazis arn't concentrating reserves somewhere with the North and the Center so depleted. German factories must be working full time...
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. Concentrating demoralizing attacks (stukas & co) on 1 or 2 tiles can open the gap you need by forcing enemy retreats.
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), Germany can't afford to lose all those free units, with Italians that's nearly half of all Axis forces in 1941-42.
1942 Case Blue - AAR!
in Strategic Command - Assault on Communism
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Waiting for the spring of 1943 and the tank blossom to come
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Thanks for keeping us warm with some winter attack moves !