BletchleyGeek

Precisely the infantry model and the uncomprenhensive way it deals with artillery is the one thing that detracts me completely from Operation Star. And perhaps I'll be ****'ed but I'll take any time of the day a well-scripted AI from a CM:BN scenario from the retarded, ludicrous, ahistorical tactics used by the dynamic AI featured by Operation Star. If you can't do it right, don't do it at all. This was true for Squad Assault back in the time, and to a certain degree, to Close Combat. I went over this point at wargamer a few days ago, after calling out the Rock, Paper, Scissors "review" and I won't go over it again here by quoting myself: http://www.wargamer.com/forums/posts.asp?t=581832 And I guess all the multiplayer you get with your friends is by sharing screenshots of Operation Star with them over Facebook. There's no multiplayer whatsoever in Operation Star. What I did indeed like were some of the ideas they used on the User Interface, and the operational layer.

Looking forward to this I'm particularly interested in seeing how RT affects your ability to assess the situation, draw plans, etc.

Working-class Germans had been given lots of - unmet - promises since 1933 to 1939. I'd recommend people to read Adam Tooze's "The Wages of Destruction", the figures and socioeconomic situation he describes of the working class during 1933-1939 is most enlightening. It was all propaganda. All the time. Or perhaps they just misjudged them based on class prejudice, became awed by the propaganda and liked the rearmament and reassessment of Germany as a Major Power, then decided to give them a vote of confidence jumping into the bandwagon with the early cheap annexations and victories, and eventually decided to actively oppose them when it was clear they were taking Germany to its ruin.

Indeed, they wasn't. Just taking a look at the ballots statistics in the 1932 election tells you that. The thing that made the difference was that the Nazi Party used violence as an integral part of its political strategy, and very effectively, with the collaboration - passive or active - of the Weimar Republic Army. So those opposing it were either cowed into submission, exiled themselves or were eliminated. Probably yes. But the thing is that the Nazi propaganda - that of equating the Third Reich institutions with the German people - was so effective that the Allies couldn't either distinguish easily one from the other. Or people needing therapy. Last summer events in Norway were a stern warning. Indeed. But it's not easy to remain idle and not try your hand at contesting such claims.

Yes, you're right that it didn't become international law until 1949, in the Fourth Geneva convention. But that means it was "lawless", not that occupying countries had the right to do so. Hmmm, when and where did the US burn down German villages and assassinated their whole population? Are you really trying to put in the same level the deeds of the Einsatzkommandos in Western Ukraine and Southern Russia and that of US occupation forces? Really? Oh, just the explosions in the church were wrong right? 800,000? That's a gross exaggeration. There wasn't such an attrition ratio even for German prisoners in Soviet camps. And? Who signed that? A Government is backed with its People, and his legitimacy comes from the People, moreso in the French Republic. If the Government does something, the People is not bound by any agreement which doesn't imply a referendum or a qualified majority in Parliament. The French Government - perhaps Winkelried has the details - I think didn't have either. The French Republic lost its legitimacy with its - in practice - dissolution. And the French People choose first to survive, and then to get retribution. Yeah, whatever. Using capital letters doesn't make you more right. The Government legitimacy comes from the People. Not because a big honcho decides to step in and style himself as the "President of the Republic", against the protocols of the Republican constitution, backed by the quite important extreme-right French People. The Third French Republic was all but in word and fact destroyed, and its remnants rallied to two different banners. That's laughable. Versailles was indeed unfair and certainly put an overwhelming burden over the shoulders of the Weimar Republic that made it collapse as the strategy of creating trade and financial links with the US failed in the wake of 1929 crack and the abandonment of free trade favoring protectionism. So Versailles was probably one of the main causes for Second World War. But to say that the protocols of Compiègne were fair... Honoring the French soldier? You mean the POW's or the ones the Wehrmacht didn't have the means to capture? And generous in what respect? Keeping the richest parts of France under military occupation and pillaging it? You're confusing hate of the Third Reich and all it entailed and represented, with that of German people. These are two completely different things. Is this an attempt at spreading neo-nazi propaganda? If so, I'm now even reluctant to further quote you. Now I understand the previous part: you confuse hatred of the Third Reich with hatred of the German people because you consider them to be one and the same thing. You are entitled to express your ideas, perhaps not in your country, and that's something which doesn't allow to discredit them and funnels these kind of consparanoid stuff. But let me remind you I'm fully entitled to spit on your ideas. And remind you of the United States the perfect example - regardless of 19th century nativism and know-nothingism, regardless of 20th century racist extreme-right groups - of how varied can be the People of a Federal Nation and reach at the same time cultural, economical, scientific, technological and military hegemony (the tales about it being dead are grossly exaggerated and serve to its current diplomacy). The basic tenet is very simple: don't tread on people, and then they won't bite you back. This conversation is over.

But let's not get ourselves rattled as well. E Coy light mortars have arrived to the vicinity of the place where I wanted to establish the firebase note that the Weapons Platoon HQ is radio-equipped, as are my Platoon HQ's. I need to take care of these HQ's, as they will be essential to call for fire support when it's needed. This is the plan to deal with the threat in the left Needless to say, the HQ platoon will get out ASAP. Of the three teams I have, two will provide covering fire – one from its current position, the other will rush to the low bocage hedge – while the assault element – which is also shaken, seems I missed something during the replay – will wait for 45 seconds before assaulting. The threat next to the road is somewhat more difficult to handle, basically because after wiping out that squad, it could well go hunting for the Greyhounds I've been working so hard to protect I try to establish a perimeter with the few troops I have here remaining, and I set them to do area fire to make dangerous for that Tank Hunter team to try anything offensive, though I think it's very likely they will try to retreat.

35:00 to 34:00 Plans were unfolding as expected until 34:35 where 2nd Plt springs an ambush looks like I wasn't being overcautious... damn! My pixeltruppen suffer a major mishap because of my oversight, and 3rd Plt suffers five casualties and it gets even worse by the end of the replay, as I count 10 casualties. This has been a huge blow, 3rd Platoon has lost one third of its strength – and everybody gets Rattled morale - in one single blow. On the right flank, yet another of 3rd Platoon falls into an ambush, suffers 7 fatalities at the hands of an ambushing Scout team. These guys with MP-40's are really dangerous, they can put out a lot of firepower. I must admit this is an unmitigated disaster, and Fred needs to be commended by his patience and foresight. Now I know how Elvis felt in our game... I've lost something like one third of my force in one single minute, because of not being cautious. Something I've been for ten minutes... Note to self: never, ever, get overconfident. Does this impair my possibilities of pulling out a win out of this? Yes, indeed it does. Now rather than having a whole platoon as a reserve, I will have to do with much less. I'm less stung by the mishap of the recon team I had brought to the forest to the northeast of Lumbres I think here I finally met Fred attacking force. Too bad I don't have anyone near with the ability to start stonking this sector and the approach into Lumbres along these forests. Something I'll make sure I can do in the next couple minutes. And 2nd Platoon comes near to another little disaster, as I spot someone chucking out a grenade into the road 2nd Platoon left squad is moving along looks like Fred has the German baseball team here. I sigh with relief seeing that nobody gets hurt. Time to hunt these guys and make up for the mistake I made last turn.

Hey Vark, yes I read it, and I'm going to re-read it during Christmas. Well, it's actually a very fair and balanced account that: 1. Debunks the myth of 12th July Prokhorovka being the "tomb" of the PanzerWaffen. Not really. It wasn't the biggest armor clash in the East either. 2. Dissipates many outright lies in Vatutin's dispatches, which helped to cover the complete collapse of his command and ineptitude of many of his subordinates. 3. Gives a brief, but very positive outlook of certain German officers professionalism, who undertook an operation they knew was doomed (and this was Hoth, the only guy who didn't feel he had to defend himself afterwards). 4. In my opinion is a very clear narrative of the dynamics of the battles between 11th and 13th July. The Germans got many details wrong, both w.r.t. the opposing force capability, composition and intentions. So, in a nutshell, Prokhorovka wasn't a German "pyrrhic" victory. It was a smashing success, which couldn't be exploited because of the rugged defense in the front of II. SS PzKorps, the pressure put on its left flank, and the defeat of III. PzKorps on his right flank. It's really very informative, and it gives a lot of detail of certain Soviet commanders who basically paid with their careers the failure of the higher command (Rotmistrov, Vatutin, etc.).

You're oversimplifying here. All areas where partisan war went up against the Third Reich armed forces occupation - Soviet Union, Italy "Social Republic", Yugoslavia - were actually in something any contemporary observer would have deemed as "a state of civil war" (Ukranian nationalists vs. Soviet Union partisans and the the Red Army, Communist & Non-Communist italian partisans vs. security forces of the German-backed puppet regime in Northern Italy, royalists and croats vs. Tito's partisans). France came, in my opinion, quite close to that before, during and after World War 2. While nowadays we nurture "memory" and "truth comissions" as the cornerstones of reconciliation after such conflicts, the truth is that during most of 20th century, a policy of "forgetting" and "getting over it" was far more common. The case for France is indeed interesting, and Fouché work is particularly balanced and makes an excellent read. Just let us remember that not so long ago it was the 50th anniversary of the mass murder of argeline immigrants Paris, who demonstrated against the war in Algeria at the Place de l'Etóile. All of that orchestrated by Maurice Papon, prefect of Burdeaux during the Third Reich occupation, and responsible for deporting thousands of French citizens into concentration camps. He just turned his coat and joined the - victorious - Gaullists and came to wield a lot of power during the 50's and 60's in France. A very sinister character, who did his thing regardless of what was the banner flying. Here were I lose all kind of sympathy for you Steiner14. If someone is guilty of infringing the "laws of war", that's the only person responsible. Not children, elderly people or random passers-by. Reprisals - as in enforcing a law by punishing a group rather than individuals - is a war crime, and a heinous crime in any democratic society worth that adjective. Why should anybody find binding a peace agreement they don't agree with? Should have Spaniards remain idle when Napoleon toppled the Bourbons of Spain, instated his brother and pillaged the country at leisure? They certainly didn't, and the fate those unfortunate German soldiers met isn't different from that of many unfortunate French soldiers during 1808-1814. What right had the Nazi Germany to impose their will on the French people? None at all. Now you say the Resistance wasn't a broadly popular movement. I tend to agree with you that a good deal of the allegiance to the Resistance actually surfaced when it was clear that the Wehrmacht wasn't going to push the Allies back into the sea. The memory of what happened to the people of Dieppe and St. Nazaire in 1942 was a stern warning. And I'm also pretty sure that a good deal of Frenchmen loathed and lamented such inhumane treatment of their enemies. But from there as to say that they were crying a river over it, there's a long long stretch. There's only one European people who hasn't resisted with tooth and nail to invaders.

Why can't you do a rolling barrage without a TRP? It's indeed a bit harder to get the schedule right, because of the longer delays...

Wow, what a thread. I wonder what topics it hasn't touched already Anyways, I quote JonS remark, because it's really one of the issues that has led historiography to draw highly misleading accounts of certain episodes of the war. Such as the Prokhorovka battle. Here's a quite recent book - which has some problems, regarding readability and maps - by the curator of the Kursk memorial: Demolishing the Myth: The Tank Battle at Prokhorovka, Kursk, July 1943: An Operational Narrative V. Zamulin I copy the synopsis of the book Amazon offers below: A really enlightening, though sometimes hard to follow, account of that very notorious engagement. Which, I must say, no wargame has ever depicted accurately (if we take Zamulin's very compelling and convincing narrative to be basically right). EDIT: A little pun for those who don't understand why so many people would love to see CMx2 on the Eastern Front soon These engagements dwarf those in the Western front, with perhaps the exception of the efforts of the Commonwealth troops around Caen (Epsom, Goodwood, Charnwood, Whateverwood, etc.), which we're getting really soon! EDIT #2: What the synopsis fails to say is that Zamulin argues very convincingly that 12th July was an astounding German tactical victory, which basically crushed the striking power of 5th Mech Corps. And this is really something that tells us a lot about why the war went the way went for the Third Reich. On the contrary as the British Empire, they used to won all the battles but the last one!

A picture does indeed sometimes speak louder than a thousand words

Here you have an overview of the orders given... now I'm afraid I've been overcautious with the approach march towards Lumbres.

On the other side of the road, the micro-battle with the Tank Hunter team continues. The Bazooka team survivor recovers his senses and starts shooting at the general position of the Germans seems that Fred has issued orders to these guys to get out harm's way, as I see one of the Germans to bolt in the general direction of Lumbres, and makes good his escape... or not five seconds later I see an explosion going up a few meters away from his position? With the Germans escaping, my plan almost backfires into my face. The E Coy 2nd Plt team moving, lingers too much and too close to the area fire setup by the support team while there's no friendly fire for rifles and MG's, I forgot about the bazooka... I need to be more careful with this. I was lucky that the only damage done has been morale damage... This is the overall situation at the end of the replay three new contacts have cropped up to the north, east and west of Lumbres. A far more ominous sign is that Fred's stonk has stopped... I think I need to press forward and rush for the best positions to defend the town. First platoon appears... precisely where I didn't want it to appear (on my left). The plan is fairly simple: and consists in having 2nd and 3rd Plt on the flanks, while 1st Plt goes in the center to act as a reserve and bolster the defense of Lumbres itself. I don't want to commit into more details now, since I think the situation will soon become very fluid. While I'm a bit wary of the Tank hunter team survivor, I think the name of the game now is to “Rush”.

36:00 to 35:00 A turn packed with action. There were indeed something dangerous behind the toolshed, a PanzerSchrek team which is uncovered by the BAR guy as his shots started to land a few inches above the head of the Germans. A fiery firefight ensues with one loss by each side, but the game goes to the German who had the wits to lob off the grenade, so I end with a BAR team less better the BAR team than one of the Greyhounds. Once located and shot upon, the follow up teams have little trouble taking the PanzerSchreck operator out Perhaps I should have sent the BAR team up so early, leaving a few seconds between them attracting the attention of the PzSchrek guys and the other guys coming on them from the sides. The situation on the road to Lumbres at the end of the replay I just need to make sure the other contact wasn't the PzSchrek guys which I just eliminated, before pushing forward faster. Now Fred should have a pretty good idea of what I'm doing.

Thanks for reading!. If you guys want to discuss, you can do so in the thread we opened to that effect :-)

2nd Platoon center squad assault team will wait for 30 second before advancing past the hedge while the support team – to its right – will wait further 15 secs before following suit. Left squad will advance along the road with its flank anchored in the MG team. 3rd Platoon left squad will move along the road in short hops, while the Greyhound moves with them. I've set the Greyhound to slow, with 10 secs pauses. If this is too slow, I'll be removing the pauses. I need to deal with the two shadows in front of 3rd Platoon center squad 3rd Platoon has a BAR team attached, which will move fast forward immediately and will do area fire on the contact sitting behind the toolshed. 30 seconds later, everybody else moves forward. The Jeep crew is tasked with dealing directly with the closest marker, while Garvey will open up on the contact further away. 3rd Platoon center squad will move along the other flank, and I hope will catch Fred's forces here – if any – in a nice crossfire. 3rd Platoon right squad is tasked with a quite dangerous assignment I really need to get an idea of what's on my right flank. I split the squad into Scout, Assault and Support teams, and I set the Scout and Assault teams to move along the flanks, with 15s pauses between each hop. In the center I will keep the Support team, which will be making 20s pauses between each hop. This should allow me to react properly to any threat that appears on either side of the squad.

The mystery contact that was vanishing and appearing becomes an enemy with a face... and grenades bastards! Just one of the guys in the team survives, huddling by the side of the hedge. But he gets back to his senses just as one team of E Coy's 2nd Platoon arrives, and tells them the whereabouts of the Germans opening up on them and killing one of the Germans. The rest of them duck for cover and vanish out of sight. Here's an overview of the rest of E Coy situation the left flank 2nd Platoon squad has secured the route for Weapons Platoon mortars. Time to get moving! First things come first, I need to wipe out that German Tank Hunter team the lone survivor of my scouts gets his slow order cancelled and fires into the general area. I'm not sure he'll comply with this, when shaken, our reigns over pixeltruppen behavior are not only ours. The assault team in the bocage will also be doing area fire for 30 secs before charging into, which should be enough for the assault team just behind to reach the hedge and provide further area fire.

37:00 to 36:00 E Coy's 3rd Platoon links up with Garvey, and we're ready to finally push forward towards Lumbres This doesn't mean I'll be charging forward just like that. This turn I need to issue quite a few commands to make sure everybody moves in a coordinated manner. The team I sent to the east of Lumbres is about halfway its patrol without reporting any contacts. I really need to be patient with this, and sooner or later I'll be rewarded. Same with the team to the west of the town still nothing. The team I sent to scout E Coy's 2nd Platoon destination gets to the hedgerow and surprise!

Hahaha, a whole regiment of "warm brothers", indeed :-) To the OP: you just experienced what Rotmistrov's Mech Corps tank brigades did at Prokhorovka. And your tanks had worse guns :-) Anyways, that sounded to me as a fun fight. Could make a good scenario, where three (or four) times as many points are awarded for each Tiger in the bag as are awarded for a Sherman.

The plan for the team to the west – the bazooka is going to sit tight – follows similar lines here I make them to pay equal attention – more or less – to either flank. I could well be walking amongst Fred's lines.

38:00 to 37:00 Something is up just in front of Garvey's M8 a second “?” marker appeared, right behind the toolshed. In less than a minute E Coy's 3rd Plt will arrive to support. Then we'll go hunting these will-o-wisps with more confidence. The new team I moved into the forest to the east of Lumbres reports a contact marker about 300 meters away. I'm not sure if FOW in Cmx2 distorts distances. In any case, given that visibility is no better than about 25 meters, it's a bit surprising that anything is spotted at about ten times that distance. In any case it's a beacon, signaling where Fred might be assembling his forces. The team I sent to the little forest to the east reports... nothing. I need to go further forward, closer to the farms. Orders for E Coy this turn – or in other words - “E Coy in a nutshell” Looks like the route between Weapons Platoon entry point and the center of the map is clear. In any case, 2nd Plt left wing squad will comb the area to be sure. As I said above, 3rd Plt is about to link with Garvey's Greyhounds. Once that is achieved, two 3rd Plt squads will support Garvey in his advance towards Lumbres. The third squad will be checking the right flank. Here's the plan for the Recon team to the west of Lumbres I move along the concealment provided by the trees and undergrowth that Fred so graciously put on the map.

Last, I send the guys I had near the southern edge of Lumbres to check the hedgerow which is the final destination of the bulk of E Coy 2nd Plt

39:00 to 38:00 Still no trace of Fred's forces I need to probe further, sooner or later I'll find these Germans. Finally I got E Coy's 3rd Plt, will move up fast – no need to be cautious – now to link with Garvey, and one squad will be detached to keep a look on the right flank. These are the plot of E Coy I'm sending 3rd Plt a bit recklessly, but I think there's anybody on those forests, since 2nd Plt right flank guard hasn't get one single “?” contact marker (nor I've heard the pixeltruppen saying stuff such as “Listen Up” or anything). 2nd Plt center and right flank will move faster towards Lumbres, while left flank element will secure the route for E Coy Weapons Platoon – which I would like to have deployed on the center, rather than on one side. I push forward my recon elements on both sides of Lumbres getting these guys to that treeline should ellicit some info. I send the bazooka team rather than forward, backwards, to check the road to the east of Lumbres I'm very light on AT assets, and I'd really like to keep an eye on possible movements along the road. I detach yet another G Coy team for recon duty these guys should cover the gap left by the bazooka team.

40:00 to 39:00 The team I sent to check the fields to the south of Lumbres arrives at its positions and founds... nothing. Will leave these guys here for a whole minute, looking out for Fred's troopers. And the bazooka team to the north finds... a whole lot of nothing. I need to probe further, now I'm really surprised – or rather – wary, of what's going on. Now that Greer is in the right side of the lines, I think it's time to move forward with the Greyhounds. I pair the BAR team with the leftmost Greyhound and the Jeep crew with Garvey's and will start to move forward cautiously. I send the Bazooka team to a clump of trees 50m to their left, from where they should be able to check the road I'm really worried that I'm moving to the town far too cautiously, but I'm doing so because of not having a clue what's Fred up. So in order to change that, perhaps it's time to risk another of G Coy teams to check out the other side of the town, especially the circled little forest.