Raptor341

****ing Orcs - - those kinds of people (referring to those who conduct torture executions and physical torture for the purpose of torture) should be dealt with immediately by their own troops in a civilized army. I’m ranting but this kind of activity has no place and only serves to remind me why Ukrainians must win this fight and win it fully. Rant over. On a side note, does anyone have any recent crowdfunding or support links that they would like to share?

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Interesting - wasn’t following this. What do we make of it?

One can hope - this is the ideal outcome for sure

Thanks for the information!

@Battlefront.com You mentioned sending a good amount of money over for Ukrainian aid - - I have as well, or at least what I can. What would be your official thoughts on running a small donation campaign on this forum/thread for all of the supporters here? I know that I would like to contribute and donation match to a set amount to add something to it. GiveButter.com might be a service to use to collect the funds before sending them onward. As far as the goal I was going to use the National Bank of Ukraine Special Account for the Ukrainian Army, unless the group suggested anything more pressing. As I don’t want to clutter the thread too much with this I thought I’d get your approval first. Thoughts? Keep em supplied!

An excellent response; I agree fully. I have my own thoughts on future that we are seeing play out in realtime, and they are quite close to what you discussed above (Smart ATGMs, MANPADs, drones and small unmanned systems, dispersed, aggressive light infantry). I agree that just buying more “MBTs, IFVs, F-35” isn’t the solution in and of itself, but I do think that artillery, used well and employed correctly, is going to play a major role going forward, as it does now. Only wanted to highlight that it wasn’t often talked about much prior but it is definitely being talked about now. Long and short range fire support is critical - - it hard to imagine the UA doing as well as it has without the expert use of artillery, as we have seen.

The Final Argument of Kings is showing it’s relevance and worth many times over in this war. Artillery remains a king of battle, something that will hopefully influence future defence procurement in NATO countries, including Canada. This isn’t to say that it is the only takeaway lesson from the war but it is a major one. I have definitely been questioning every wargaming or simulation methodology that says that artillery is ineffective against armour, as is often the case is wargame design. Those lessons were obvious back in 2014/2015, and are now much stronger.

On the slightly off-topic of war videos and entertainment; As I have spent quite a few hours of my life providing ISR and real-time targeting I can say personally that you get used to it pretty quick. I distinctly remember watching my first strike (against ISIS in Iraq, 2015) and being filled with excitement - - finally getting to strike back at these people who were tearing open any form of civilized society and attempting to push the area back into the dark ages. I recall that it really didn't look any different than a video game, which because you are watching it through a monitor, really does make sense. Then I saw my first mass civil casualty event... I really didn't care about watching them get smacked after that. Still don't. Personally, watching the Russians get hit brings up much the same feelings. It's not a joke, it is real, but so is the war. You want Ukraine to win it? Then they need to kill invaders, and kill them in large numbers. This is the reality of it. Nothing more, nothing less. I'd do it myself if I could, and I don't mean that lightly. Death comes to us all, and killing in war is just that, delivering death for a specific reason or desired outcome. Where I will say that I have ABSOLUTELY no time for is torture and unnecessary violence. If you are going to kill anything you kill it as cleanly and as efficiently as possible - people who enjoy torture or employ it are beyond me (death will happen in war, if you are going to kill someone do it, but to cause pain unnecessarily for your own pleasure is twisted). All this being said, I find it difficult to watch videos of Ukrainians getting hit because I want them to survive and WIN - yet it also serves as a reminder that the cost is real - not that the cost isn't worth the fight (as much as I can say that without being there myself), but it is real. (I am also the kind of wargamer that feels bad when he losses pixel troops unnecessarily, they are my responsibility to use wisely)

Still waiting for the 4th CMBG Or anything in Norway

Watching

Still want to see the RACS done for CM!

That is BS - this war ends when Ukraine says its done, ideally after recapturing all of her lawful territory.

Couldn’t have put it better myself. I’ve personally felt this way since day one, and there is only more reason to believe it now. Option 1 is a complete non-starter, and the difference between 2 and 3 isn’t as much as most think. Russia has more than enough reasons to escalate with any NATO member, yet they have not, because while still dangerous, they are a battered conventional force. The West has the room to escalate and force the Russians out or to bring them to the negotiating table, if only we have the political willpower to up the pressure. While there are risks to any escalation, there are also a host of risks if we do not. A more focused argument may be again the topic of opening up a sea lane into Ukraine - what is Russia going to do when confronted by a NATO/International fleet with the express mission of maintaining a naval LOC? Attack? Because that will fail - the power balance between the limited RFN units in the Black Sea / Med is massive, it is a lose lose for Russia if they even tried. *Quick fire opinions here*

Likely they would move to other Russian ports along the Black Sea - now that the Slava class CG is gone their remaining vessels are under 500 feet long, but I am not an expert on the other ports in the area, likely Novorosyisk

Beat me to the punch Steve - hadn’t considered Indian and other third party navies but that could be a good option. And yes, the UN was been surprisingly AWOL throughout this. In this case, UN flagged vessels might be an excellent idea, even if they require escort by NATO vessels under UN flag. I doubt Russia would challenge that

Indeed - nothing is impossible, just needs a plan and willpower. Going to have to do something to open up the seaway. Destroying the BSF would be a good place to start (opinion), but regardless, an international mission will likely be required to ensure the safety of any maritime traffic in the western Black Sea. From a naval perspective, retaking Crimea or nullifying it is key for long term Ukrainian sea LOC control.

ASW, now we are talking. Sinking more RFN surface vessels will most impactful with regards to the blockade and overall naval pressure on Russians, however I have a few ideas on how ASW could also be done vs the Kilos in the Black Sea. Thankfully they are not nuclear powered boats and therefore come with a distinct set of limitations (but also advantages). Still, it might take an international naval fleet to fully open that seaway up. A topic of discussion in its own right.

I’ve been thinking the same myself - - there are bound to be differences between what would have played out between the 1991 Iraqi Army vs the 1991 Soviets but it gives pause for thought. The Iraqis did have a battle tested and large force going into 1991, something that concerned Western military leaders in the build up to Op Desert Storm.

Ignoring any specific personalities in this post; I just wanted to highlight that this attitude is one of the things I love about working with most Americans. If more of us chose to view the world this way it will be a better place, doing what’s right because you can, not because it is easy. If it also happens to strengthen your allies and interests, even better. Am I optimistic? Yes, but it sure as hell beats being negative for the sake of being negative - nothing gets done with that attitude. Just a little positive thought from a Canadian! Back to the war… this is all I will say on this topic. (Also, long time thread watcher, second post. Been here since around page 150 or so. Thanks to all for the excellent insights and to the strength of our Ukrainian members here. Glory to Ukraine!)

There has never been a better time to deliver a major strategic defeat to the Russians - whatever it takes to keep Ukraine intact (and victorious) and Europe united will paid dividends in the long run. This isn’t even taking in the moral and legal context of why maximum support for Ukraine now should create a more stable, more rules based Europe over the long term.

Also why i find it kind of sad that there is no mujahidin campaign because that side of the story really deserves to be told too, even more so when i begin to understand why these men fought for, and died for. Understanding this is just a wargame, but wargames too can cast a single side of history in a light it may or in may not deserve.

Sadly, i think your right in most cases. However, over the last few weeks ive spent a great deal of time reading about this war, Soldiers of God being the last ive read. And as a Canadian, it completely changed of view point what i had often though were only " Taliban like " fighters trying to stop progress. Men like Haq and Massoud not only fought a corrupt and ruthless communist regime in Afganistan itself, they had to fight the soviet invasion that supported it. Truth, the Taliban was born out of that war, and of men such as Hekmatyar who gave birth and supported the hatred that is the Taliban but so did the ISI, and the number of other non-afgan actors the built and keep building that fundamentalist enemy we today fight. What am i getting at? That i didnt know just how wrong it was to think the Soviets and the puppet afghan government was doing "good", when the numbers of bodies of civilians can attest to that. Good governments don't kill there own people for land reform. Or support it. However, i really wonder how many know the full story, i still dont fully, but im finding out.

> A core yes ( a main group of warriors in a region ), single regions or areas also correct. Im currently reading a very informative book "Soldiers of God" that deals what life was like for the muj, and why the west was behind them. ( keeping in mind that the current Taliban and the 1980s muj warriors were 2 different things ). Well worth a read.

That is a disapointment. Wonder if that could be modded in.