[New module - Combat Mission:Afghanistan?!]

Very interesting posts John. Firstly, the Stinger issue. I think that this article is an excellent overview of the Soviet experience in Afghanistan and I learned a few things from it too. I didn't know that BMDs were too light to set off mines! However the part that you quoted doesn't change my opinion of the Stinger at all, the key word here is 'problematic'.

http://www.militaryhistoryonline.com/20thcentury/articles/sovietexperience.aspx

(Fair Use)

"Surface to air missiles acquired by the Mujahideen from covert U.S. weapons programs proved problematic for Soviet aviation operations. The introduction of more effective surface to air missiles including the Stinger in 1986 significantly affected Soviet air operations in Afghanistan. The Stinger, a U.S. made man-portable system, weighs 34 pounds, is 5 feet long, and has a maximum range of 5,800 meters and maximum altitude of 3,500 meters. Their use forced the Soviets to greatly increase attack air speed and stop spending time over target. Fighters and bombers were forced to increase attack height from 2,000-4,000 feet to around 10,000 feet.[25] The Mujahideen, despite not having received a great deal of training on the missile, were able to hit Soviet aircraft out to a distance of 4,800 meters and up to 2,000 meters in elevation.[26] The greater altitudes forced upon Soviet close air support aircraft due to the effectiveness of the Stingers significantly reduced the accuracy of their bombing. The added danger of flying over target areas thought to have Stingers as part of their air defense arsenal increased the threat to Soviet pilots. As a result, "Soviet pilots proved far less willing to fly as many missions or as demanding high-risk sorties".[27] The sharp decrease in the ability of fixed-wing aircraft to find and kill targets allowed the Mujahideen to move through the country far more easily and restore their supply lines.

The main targets of the Mujahideen were Soviet helicopters, which also proved to be vulnerable to the Stingers. This meant according to author and historian Lester Grau, "The Soviet Command had to severely limit the employment of helicopters, especially during daylight".[28] The forced changes in Soviet aviation tactics had profound effects on the battlefield. Helicopters were less effective in providing direct fire support as pilots reduced the amount of time over targets thought to have Stingers.

More than just combat missions were affected. Casualty evacuation, once predominantly executed by helicopters, was significantly reduced. A Soviet combatant remembered, "Until 1987 all of our wounded were evacuated by helicopter to the hospital in Kabul. The arrival of Stinger missiles put an end to our massive use of choppers. We were forced to cram the injured into armored carriers-fifteen in each one-and send them down the local roads to Kabul."[29] Certainly, the fear of being wounded and not having adequate casualty evacuation capability had a negative effect on the soldiers fighting on the ground."

Without a doubt, the introduction of the stinger changed the nature of the war and increased the military burden that the Soviets had to bear during the conflict. The point I dispute is the simplistic assertation that 'The Stinger Won The War' that seems to have been thrown around so much that it is now just about the only thing people say about the period!

The key point that I am trying to make is that the Soviets learned to deal with the Stinger and although they where never as effective as before, they were still able to use helicopters and planes up untill the end of the war in more or less their initial roles.

Im afraid I am going to cherry pick the MP.net article ruthlessly

Without question, the Stinger had an immediate military impact. Although initial estimates may have been somewhat overblown—claiming the Stinger downed approximately one aircraft per day during the first three months of its deployment—the missile clearly represented an enormous qualitative improvement in the rebels’ air-defense capability.

While the kill rate and number of targets destroyed are still disputed, the missile unquestionably shot down Soviet and especially Afghan aircraft at an unprecedented rate in its first few months of use.

Yousaf presents a detailed accounting of the Stinger’s first ten months in service until his departure from ISI in August 1987. During this time, he claims, 187 Stingers were fired, of which 75 percent hit their target, for a total of approximately 140 downed aircraft. Such detailed statistics must be based on Mujahedin self-reporting, the reliability of which is unknown. Nevertheless, these figures are more reliable than those in an oft-cited September 1987 U.S. analysis, which estimated “the destruction of about 270 aircraft per year.”

In response to the Stinger’s immediate success, the Red Army initially restricted its pilots to less dangerous missions, shunting the rest onto Afghan flyers. The Afghans, however, soon lost their nerve as well. According to Yousaf, they would pretend to go out on missions, fire off their ammunition, return to base, and falsely report success. A former Afghan pilot confirms that he and his fellow “pilots went on strike and refused to fly in areas where Stinger missiles were present.”

Fairly quickly, however, Soviet forces adopted a series of technical and tactical countermeasures that mitigated the impact of the Stinger. In the technical area, Soviet aircraft were retrofitted with improved flares, infrared beacons, and baffles on their exhausts to impede the Stingers’ ability to lock on target. Aircraft also were equipped with a missile radar warning system to notify pilots of the need for evasive action.

Tactically, the Soviets had numerous responses. Fixed-wing aircraft flew at higher altitudes outside the Stinger’s three-mile range, which averted the missile threat but reduced the pilots’ effectiveness, earning them the derisive sobriquet “cosmonauts” from Soviet ground troops. Helicopter pilots pursued the opposite strategy, adopting low-altitude, nap-of-the-earth techniques to hide from the Stingers, which function best when hot aircraft are silhouetted against a cool, blue sky. At the lower altitude, however, helicopters became more vulnerable to small-weapons fire. Interestingly, the same tactical countermeasures had been reported as early as the first year of the war and several times thereafter in response to earlier-model SAMs. However, the Stinger’s introduction apparently triggered a dramatic renewal and expansion of their use.

The Soviets also reportedly shifted many air operations to cover of darkness, as the rebels initially were not equipped with night-vision equipment. They increasingly relied on human intelligence to discover the location of Stingers, then either destroyed the missiles, purchased them, or avoided the locations entirely. Some daredevil Soviet pilots utilized a tactic that was a mirror-image of the rebels’ own: flying in tandem within the Stinger’s range but separated by a large distance, the first of two Soviet aircraft would make itself vulnerable in order to flush a Mujahedin Stinger team from its perch, after which the second aircraft would appear and fire on the exposed rebels. For important air support missions that could not be conducted safely in the presence of Stingers, such as facilitating insertion of special operations forces, the Soviets sometimes substituted long-range suppressive artillery fire, which was effective but required more ground forces and sacrificed the element of surprise.

Despite the army’s claim that the “Stinger was the war’s decisive weapon” —echoed by many others including 60 Minutes, which declared, “The Stinger is generally credited with having won the war for the Mujahedin” —the net effect of Soviet counter-measures eventually was to offset the Stinger. David Isby, an expert military analyst of the Afghan conflict, concluded in 1990 that, “although none of the Soviets’ countermeasures were totally successful, the Stinger... did not succeed in forcing Soviet helicopters out of the sky.” A leading French expert on Afghanistan, Olivier Roy, confirms from his experience among the rebels in late 1988 that, “by 1989, the Stinger could no longer be considered a decisive anti-aircraft weapon.”

As intersting as the videos are (and they really are!), anything that tries to pass an ATGM off as a MANPAD can't be considered authoritive so I won't respond to them. I think I have said enough anyway

As for Suverov, yes, he was right with respect to weapon systems (although he was a lone voice so I agree with the military specialists of the time when they didn't believe him. There was no proof! I am however too young to have been a Soviet hardware affectionado at the time however so I can't speak with any authority about that! The real bit of the book I disagree with is his description of the Nuclear forces and the politburo. He should have taken that out and published it seperately as 'wot I think - speculations of a junior Soviet army officer as to what goes on at the top of some of the most secret organisations in the world'. Very interesting to see his perspective but not in any way authoritative!

Now: Bioweapons

Again some very interesting articles, although I admit I am flagging by this point and have only skimmed them! Without a doubt the Soviet Union had developed a huge range of CW and BW agents for use in Europe or China in the event of a major war.

Although I did know that the Soviets used 'scorched earth' tactics in Afghanistan, I had not heard of allogations of the use of bioweapons. I thought you had meant Chemical weapons as depicted in the film 'The Beast', the use of which was always just rumour. Because of the fact that I know nothing about the subject I won't try to argue a point. I don't know if BW were used or not.

[New module - Combat Mission:Afghanistan?!]

Speaking of which, the MANPADS SAM list should include the Redeye and the Blowpipe, both of which preceded the Stinger, the last of which fundamentally upset the correlation of forces by depriving the Russians of effective helicopter use and CAS.

I hate to make a statement without backing it up but I thought that the consensus was that the effects of the stinger is vastly overrated and although they initially caused problems, new tactics and countermeasures were devised so that in a few months helicopter and CAS use was back to normal(ish). I looked at some records of losses of helicopters etc and very few were downed by MANPADs

Chemical warfare ought logically to be in, but it doesn't appear to be. Afghanistan is where the Russians operationally used the revolutionary fungus-derived Yellow Rain biotoxin, Blue X incapacitant and many other nasty things. See Seagraves, Yellow Rain for the gories.

Again, apparently overstated. There were rumours of chemical weapon use during the initial invasion but these were never substantiated. Bodies found without a mark on them were often killed by thermobaric overpressure and not by chemical agents.

As for Suverov, I found his book very interesting and certainly believe his stories when he talks about his personal experiences with respect to training and relations between officers, NCOs and men. When he moves out of his area of expertise (i.e into politics) he starts to pass off rumour and speculation as fact. I honestly don't think he had any better knowledge of the higher workings of the Soviet system as we did. He just got a different perspective.

[During Action Report - hcrof vs Mike Churchmoor!]

The order was given to retreat and men turned to run. No sooner were they up however before a huge volley of high calibre fire came poring out of the trees. Right hand platoon was worst hit as men were thrown around by explosion after explosion. The third platoon made it out but the retreat began to look more like a rout than a withdrawal as spotting artillery rounds added their fire to the inferno that the field had now become.

On the left, two BMPs disobeyed orders and raced out of cover to avenge their fallen comrades. They spot a tank and both launch their missiles...

You lose concentration for a second... I should have used infantry smoke. I knew it. But I was in a hurry giving the orders and didn't think it through and have lost most of a platoon because of my mistake. The same story on the right, I double clicked on a platoon and issued move orders, forgetting about the vehicles further back. Hopefully, I will gain something out of this disaster because both ATGMs are on target so far!

One question I would love to know the answer to is why did mike open fire now and not earlier? He clearly had my infantry in his sights for a while and had I moved less cautiously I would be in HILLFARM right now! Bizarre.

On another less positive note: Where the hell is my artillery!?

[During Action Report - hcrof vs Mike Churchmoor!]

Thomm - Only my tanks have smoke mortars so I havn't used them yet. Mike has, when one of his T-62s got hit by an RPG. You are right though, they can be very useful.

ilochim - I like that idea, it might be difficult to move a tank to the right without Mike seeing it but artillery fire and BMP's I can do. When I get the next turn I will have a look at it.

Can anyone remember if Smoke missions drop HE spotting rounds? I am planning on a smoke screen on the right anyway but the spotting rounds might look like the begining of an artillery barrage!

[During Action Report - hcrof vs Mike Churchmoor!]

Yep, at this point Mike is dictating the pace of the battle. However, neither of us has fully comitted his forces yet so I wouldn't say it is a massive advantage. Yet.

I don't think that Mike can really take advantage of this retreat. Like I said, I never comitted all of my forces and I have loads of overwatch and reserves (Those tanks!). If Mike moves out of the trees to get my retreating troops he will get badly mauled and he knows it! In the North therefore he is static and that means he is vulnerable to my artillery when it finally arrives.

However, like you say, Mike will be planning something. I sense a probe to the south soon He doesn't have to capture both objectives to win however so he won't press hard. The ball is in my court. I have to attack or lose!

Oh yeah, RadioactiveMan, I just re read your post and you were very right when you said I made a mistake by telling my guys to run away from artillery. I regret that so much right now!

[During Action Report - hcrof vs Mike Churchmoor!]

RadioactiveMan - Nice graphic Strangly, left hand platoon has only lost the HQ squad, the other one is amazingly protected by the worlds smallest fold in the ground and has only lost the RPG guy. My CO is still alive but whether he survives the next turn is debatable

Unfortunately one of the T-62s has eyes on top half of the road so a fast attack becomes difficult to say the least. The wind favours me here however. it is quite strong and will blow smoke along the road. I have already given the orders to retreat unfortunately but will bear your plan in mind for the next attack. I could send a platoon of tanks up the road covered by smoke. Mike has begun to send in more infantry into HILLFARM again - I can see an RPG team at least. I will have to flatten the place .

One of Mikes advantages on the hill is that he can shift his defenders around fast because he is using vehicles. He did it on the right so I am convinced that he will do it again in another pure infantry attack. By preparing a proper combined arms attack I can hope to nullify this advantage somewhat as it will happen much faster. With the amount of artillery I plan to put on the hill + my tanks, Mike has 3 choices:

1. Stay and fight where he is. A bad choice, I will take some losses but he will be wiped out and the balence of forces will shift strongly in my favour. Additionally, the route to BRIDGE will be lightly defended and if I am fast, I can hit my objective before he is able to shift his forces. As bad as this choice is, it is not entirely unlikely. It basically means do nothing which is always tempting and CMSF players don't retreat nearly as often as their real life counterparts!

2. Retreat back to BRIDGE and set up a new line of defenses. Another bad move, I would gain the hill which is a huge tactical advantage and then could rain down HE onto his positions. He preserves his forces but gives up any chances of winning. Highly unlikely.

3. Retreat to the reverse slope and try to catch my forces as they come over the top. Use tanks on the opposite slope to support the defense. This seems to be the most logical option. The resulting battle would be bloody and it would be diffcult to call the outcome but I have a bad feeling it would be stalemate. I would have numerical superiority (I think!) and I could try to use artillery again to 'herd' him off the hill. Other Means talks about an armoured battle. It would most definately happen here, but I believe I might have an advantage if I can Hull down enough tanks.

Other Means - I believe our tanks are doing a bit of 'You show me yours and I'll show you mine' Mike doesn't like to commit his armour reserve until I have commited mine. I have exploited this before (By boxing him in with infantry and ATGMs so the tanks became trapped in a bad area) and hopefully will be able to figure out a way to exploit it again!

I like that quote! Reminds me of a few CMSF battles...

[During Action Report - hcrof vs Mike Churchmoor!]

I looked very long and hard at that option On the extreme right of the picture you edited you can see a second field which is out of sight of any of Mikes forces on North hill and elsewhere. This continues until you get to the thick forest on the other side.

At this point, I'm not sure my tanks or BMPs can get through that forest so infantry would have to go in unsupported. From there it is a 150m run up a steep hill with no cover to get into the trees on north hill. I would have tried it earlier but Mike now seems to have most of that slope covered by a BMP

The other option would be to cross the river at a ford near the forest but you get very exposed on the other side!

As for reserves, I would say we still have equal forces at this point. However, I believe it is easier for Mike to shift his forces lateraly if he has to. I think you are right that Mike will get over confident. I believe he will consolidate on north hill before scraping together a force to take south hill and BIGFARM. He wouldn't be stupid enough to try and continue his advance in the north! In a way this will play into my hands, if I can hold in the south, it will draw his reserves in and away from BRIDGE. The key is his artillery. If he can destroy another platoon in the south then it is probably game over for me.

At some point I will put this scenario up on the Repository but based on this battle I will make a few adjustments. North hill way too important right now as it totally dominates the map. I think I will expand the map north to give more options to the commanders, it will also mean that battles will be able to be fought North-South as well as East-West. I do love massive maps and I have a feeling this one is going to get pretty huge by the time I am happy with it!

[During Action Report - hcrof vs Mike Churchmoor!]

Yeah, you are right. Mike has been airbursting artillery behind my positions for a while now so he might try and catch my infantry as they retreat. However, I still have carriers .

As soon as they are out of the firing lines, I will load my grunts up and keep them safe in their vehicles.

[During Action Report - hcrof vs Mike Churchmoor!]

Lethaface - What you are proposing is similar to my original plan. The problem is that Mikes tanks and BMPs seem to be able to see and shoot out of the trees whereas I have a very hard time seeing, let alone shooting back at them.

My basic plan at this stage is to use a lot of artillery. This will kill and suppress infantry, destroy armour if Mike keeps them where they are and create a huge amount of dust etc to obscure his vision. I will compound this with smoke from my tanks and send them forward in front of BMPs filled with infantry. Artillery will fall until the very last moment and my tanks will be in the trees, shooting at everything. If Mike retreats, I will then dismount my infantry to flush him out.

Beyond this hill, Mike should have 1 platoon of infantry between me and the bridge and he will then counter attack with his other company. Hopefully my tanks can put an end to that!

My artillery hasn't arrived yet however so before I attack I will have to set up defensive positions while I wait.

souldierz - You are right, my infantry will be vulnerable when they retreat! I will have to think of something to cover them.

[During Action Report - hcrof vs Mike Churchmoor!]

The right hand platoon pushed forward, overrunning the last 2 enemy soldiers in the wheat field. They had been hiding and where almost close enough to touch when one of them let off a wild burst from his assault rifle.

The response was quick and the man was quickly shot. A few grenades sealed the deal.

The gunfire could not however drown out what was happening to their left. Simultaneously, every vehicle on the hillside opened fire at the left hand platoon and they disappeared into a cloud of flying earth and fire...

Right. Mike can get at my infantry. This changes things, I will have to give up this idea that I can overrun his position with a few infantry and do it properly this time as this is clearly Mikes MLR. I will order another retreat. My men will get in their BMPs, I will get everyone to their staging areas then when my artillery arrives I will flatten this bloody hilltop in a rolling barrage and send in the tanks.

This however will take time, prepare for this thread to slow down a bit!

[During Action Report - hcrof vs Mike Churchmoor!]

Well I'm flattered I do get the feeling I'm still too young to be writing books though!

It all depends on whether this battle can stay entertaining. Read below, a change in approach (and the new year ) means I think this thread may slow down for a bit!

[During Action Report - hcrof vs Mike Churchmoor!]

As the carrier watched the trees the gunner spotted a target! Mostly hidden by vegetation, an enemy BMP was halted on the top of the hill. He fired a missile but lost control and it crashed into the ground in the middle of the wheat field.

In the wheat field a huge explosion flung everyone in the right hand platoon to the ground. Two people didn't get back up. The left hand platoon wasn't faring much better, another enemy squad had opened fire and bullets where cracking over their heads once more...

In the south, the explosions over south hill had changed. The heavy crump of large calibre artillery was now beginning to punctuate the otherwise quiet south and a report came in over the radio that the FO was seriously wounded.

Grr, I love and hate these Saggers. On the one hand, I have loads of them and they form my primary anti tank asset. On the other hand, more of my troops have been injured by my own missiles than enemy small arms fire!

The left hand platoon aren't the only troops under fire. I moved a second BMP to try and cover the right hand platoon and an enemy round promptly shot over the turret! I can't see the shooter so I suppose I will have to put my carrier into hard reverse!

Here is a picture of the battle as it is now. As you can see, not much has changed. I can't get his vehicles in the trees and he cant destroy my infantry platoons. Now that he has artillery, Mike might well try to hit my guys in the open so I have to get a move on otherwise this attack may become a massacre. My new plan is to try and sneak an RPG team in to destroy that carrier in HILLFARM before infiltrating infantry into the complex. This will create a gap in Mikes defenses and then hopefully he will withdraw. If that doesn't work, I may have to retreat, blast the top of north hill with artillery and send in the tanks!

In the south, my reserve platoon has finally made it to its staging area and will now begin to try and infiltrate closer to Mikes lines.

[During Action Report - hcrof vs Mike Churchmoor!]

Hcrof, fantastic DAR, thanks for keeping me entertained, and on the edge of my computer chair! I am intrigued though about the role the CMSF engine is playing, in what seems to be a far more 'realistic' encounter than some CM1 games I've played, or read AAR's about. There are definite pulses of action, with more waiting and manoeuvre than CM1, is this because borg spotting has been removed or because the infantry and firepower model has been greatly improved.

I don't play CMSF, the concept does not interest me, but looking at this DAR the advances in the game engine seem to pose pixel commanders with far more of the 'problems' real commanders face. I could be absolutely wrong and the weaponry and technology, of the modern era, could be the real reason for the difference in tempo, but I wonder: If the equivalent forces, Pz IV's for T-62's and AT guns for ATGW's (BMP's would pose a problem) were played on a similar map what would that DAR have been like?

Very interesting question Vark! I had to think about this for a while.

Yes, this battle does feel more 'real' than many but I am not sure that I can put my finger on why. Certainly, I never played CMx1 against a human so I am not the best judge of things. My opinion however it that it is a mix of factors. Certainly the lack of Borg spotting contributes to a slightly slower game where I frequently have to agonise over the fact that there is something there but I can't get it. I have an opponent who loves to park a tank or 3 in an increadibly incovenient place. My infantry can see it but can't hurt it but if I send in the tanks, it is likely that he will get the first shot off! When playing as blue you call in air support so the tactical problem is much more apparent when playing as red.

I also feel that the 1-1 representation of infantry plays a big part in my use of them. In CMx1, when a squad takes casualties the MG is instantly transferred to another man. Especially in WW2 this meant that you could have a 5 man squad that is still effective because they still have the MG. Combined with the fact that you don't see you men 'dying' it means that I was very inclined to push forward at great cost unnecessarily. In CMx2, when my men take incoming, I do what I can to preserve them, even if I have to slow an attack. If someone important goes down, (Like the RPG guy) then I might have to concentrate on casualties for a while!

Some of the 'realism' may be down to playing style. I like to put myself in the shoes of the commanders on the ground so I tend to give non gamey orders (I.e non suicidal ) to my men.

This can mean that I spend a whole 5 minutes just waiting for something or I might abandon an attack due to unreasonable casualties even if I could push harder for the gamey flag rush.

So, in conclusion. If you swapped all my units for WW2 equivalents, the feel of this game would be similar. Whether it would for other players is debatable but my opinion is that CMx2 feels less constrained by rules than CMx1 so it feels more real.

Edit: Taki - Right now we are just under 30mins into a 1h30 game. My Objective (BRIDGE) is worth 500 points, Mike has to get HILLFARM (300points) and BIGFARM (300points). We also get points for destroying each others forces, check the OP.

[During Action Report - hcrof vs Mike Churchmoor!]

Sat in the cramped fighting compartment of his BMP, the gunner pressed his face into the sights and watched his missile fly towards the enemy tank. Thick smoke from the burning carrier began to obscure his vision but he kept making small adjustments to the joystick.

Bang.

Silently in the glass, the fat ATGM disappeared in a brief flash on the front glacis of his opponent. Men began to scramble out of the tank, smoke beginning to rise out of a hatch, and they started to run. They didn't get far - a huge secondary explosion blew the turret off and the crew disappeared in the dust and debris.

Target destroyed. Driver - Reverse

As the carrier slid out of sight behind the ridge the gunner looked to the right at his burning companions. Congratulations and cheers erupted on the radio net but he felt nothing, just numbness.

Tank company HQ destroyed Damn it feels good to score a solid point for the good guys! All in all it shows why 3 is better than 1 with Saggers (or any AT weapon for that matter), you are far more likely to win a Duel! More eyes mean I shot first and even though it took ages for the missile to arrive, the fact that 1 missed didn't matter. Saggers are cheap, I can afford to 'spam' them at the enemy.

The attack in the north continues, Mike seems content to wait until I get closer before he opens fire. He has positioned 2 tanks and 2 BMPs in positions with LOS 50m out from the treeline. It keeps him safe but I plan to outflank him anyway

On the right, there are fewer defenders. It seems though that the 'MG team' is in fact a BMP. My carrier has just emerged into a hull down position ready to fire. Hopefully it can shoot through the trees and score a kill!

[During Action Report - hcrof vs Mike Churchmoor!]

I think the 'imaginary' tank is abandoned by its crew?

I am actually beginning to think that the 'imaginary' tank is in fact a very lucky RPG shot! I now have eyes on the whole treeline and there are no vehicles within LOS of the destroyed carrier. This would mean that the tank was only in my head the whole time

[During Action Report - hcrof vs Mike Churchmoor!]

The Attack on the north hill slows to a crawl, infantry cautiously running in short dashes while rounds from supporting BMPs arc overhead, crashing around HILLFARM. Men fire into the trees even though incoming has stopped. More enemy vehicles and other movement are spotted in the trees but the men continue to grind forward.

The third platoon rushes through the wheat field, beginning their flanking manoeuvre but the snap of small arms fire begins and a man falls - 2nd squad leader. We have been spotted! Nobody knows where the fire is coming from but the men throw themselves to the ground and begin to leapfrog through the wheat.

In the south, a pair of BMPs spot an enemy T-62 turning on the top of north hill and both fire their Sagger missiles. The tank stops and aims.

The crews have no time to think as the 115mm main gun fires a round which slams into another carrier, feet away. One Missile operator flinches, ditching his Sagger into the river but the second holds his nerve – only a few seconds until impact...

I hope my missile hits - it is agonisingly slow but if it gets the kill it will destroy his company CO! Definitely worth 1 BMP in my opinion!

I think I can guess where that small arms fire is coming from. Earlier an MG team ran out of HILLFARM into the woods and now the right hand platoon has picked up a fresh ? in that area. I have sent a BMP to deal with it

Mikes defence is becoming clearer now he has his infantry in the wood line both sides of HILLFARM and his vehicles scattered further in the forest. If I can pin his infantry, my flanking move will be very effective!

[Holiday Bones, Norman Style]

Er, where did that come from?

[During Action Report - hcrof vs Mike Churchmoor!]

Well, the attack continues slowly! Here is the situation as it stands now. As you can see, my mortar strike completely missed the areas where I think the enemy infantry are. You can also see a lot of tanks in them trees!

The Left hand platoon is most vulnerable and are moving very slowly, they have just crested a small ridge for a second time (after running into cover from the 'tank' that destroyed my BMP) and have already taken effective small arms fire. Luckily, a little bit of deduction has given me a fairly good idea as to where the enemy squad is so my overwatching BMP will fire at the likely patch of trees

I will keep up my fire on the upper floors of HILLFARM to discourage Mike from setting up an MG nest but I think he has abandoned it. Like I said, when AFVs are around it is undefendable!

On the right, my platoon is leapfrogging slowly towards HILLFARM but I am worried about the recon HQ left in the field. There are only a few of them but I don't want to take unnesesary casualties. I don't actually need to take HILLFARM but they will advance untill contact and hopefully worry Mike enough to withdraw. If not I will try to sneak an RPG team to hit the nearest tank and see if that will do the trick! My third platoon has begun its flanking manouvre. I will keep them in the trees for as long as possible then sprint up onto the hill. They will probably get spotted but any enemy MGs should be <1km away so I should be ok.

My badly aimed artillery has now stopped and I have already begun ordering a new barrage. Not as heavy this time (no shells) but hopefully enough to suppress Mikes infantry.

[During Action Report - hcrof vs Mike Churchmoor!]

The enemy in the wheat field must have been shocked at size of the attack because they didn't fire again as the right hand platoon cautiously leapfrogged towards HILLFARM. An MG team are spotted running from the farm which sends a ripple of excitement through the men. Maybe it will be abandoned? The barrage finally stops and they speed up towards their objective.

After they dived into cover the left hand platoon looked forward urgently to try and work out what killed the BMP. Without seeing anything, they will have to advance again. The LT gives the order...

Well without any evidence to the contrary, I will have to assume that the tank in the trees is imaginary. I know where 2 of the others are so I will begin the advance again, cautiously this time.

In the south, I have been trying to clear up casualties – my squads only seem to want to do it one at a time annoyingly. More spotting rounds have started on the south hill however so I will pull everyone off it except my FO.

[During Action Report - hcrof vs Mike Churchmoor!]

Thanks, I hope that I can get this battle moving again soon by shifting Mike off this hill!

I am using a slightly modified version of the 'Syrope' Mod for the terrain with the pro effects smoke mod and scipios flames for the effects. This IMO gives the most realistic feel to the game (I like the muted base game explosions for example).

Of course in a game like this the 'Faces of Syria' mod is vital! Some of the heads look African though so I got rid of them.

[During Action Report - hcrof vs Mike Churchmoor!]

As my infantry surge up the hill, a BMP opens up on HILLFARM, blowing holes into the walls and roof of the tall farmhouse. At the same time, mortar rounds begin to rain down on the treeline and explosion after explosion shake the top of the hill. Out of nowhere one of their carriers suddenly explodes and the left hand platoon spot a tank in the trees...

They immediately take cover and their advance stops. Now the right hand platoon is left to advance on its own. Soon it becomes apparent that mortar fire fire is falling on HILLFARM! How are they supposed to take the place if is under artillery bombardment? There is no time to think however as a few enemy infantry begin to fire at them from the cover of the wheat...

Ok, nothing is going right for me in this attack! One of my mortar modules missed and is now wasting shells on HILLFARM while it looks like Mike has a tank in ambush in the trees – exactly where those shells should be falling! In fact, the suspected positions of Mikes good infantry platoon is more or less unscathed and I have already lost a carrier in this attack Finally, my left hand troops have been seen by a scout squad before they reached their objective!

Well, as they say, the best laid plans can go wrong so I am going to have to improvise. I will stall my attack, readjust the last of my mortar shells so they land on target and move a third platoon wide in a flanking manoeuvre to the south of the north hill. This will hopefully pin his infantry in place while threatening to surround his tanks in the forest. My tanks will stay in reserve. Hopefully, Mike will withdraw without a fight once it looks like he will be surrounded but I am not counting on it. It looks like it will be a bloody battle. Either way, it is another 10 minutes wasted, which brings me to another point. Where is my artillery!?

[During Action Report - hcrof vs Mike Churchmoor!]

Thanks alot for the support guys, I have played one turn but I think it is best to wait another minute before releasing the results. The attack is on a knife edge and it could go either way! It is all to do with Mikes tanks...

[El Derjine campaign AAR]

hcrof,

Sand, eh? Technically, that means the T-72M has siliceous core armor, which is what all the M1s had prior to the HAs. Granted, the M1 armor layout was a bit more sophisticated than just pouring sand into an empty space! I believe there was some talk of ceramic pellets in the T-72 homeland versions way back during the Cold War, but such things were little better than speculation.

Now that I said that, I can't for the life of me find out where I got that little bit of information but AFAIK, quality varied. The 'textbook' solution was vertical sand bars in some kind of matrix. It wasn't just beach sand but I can't remember what the stuff was. I assume this was designed to deflect HEAT jets and it apparently worked quite well. On the other hand, when production numbers were looking a bit iffey, quality went down and the factory took a few short cuts with the filling.

Unfortunately I don't have my books with me right now (It being christmas and all ) so don't take any of that as established fact untill I can find some sources!

[El Derjine campaign AAR]

As far as I am aware, there is a cavity inside the front of a T-72M which is filled with sand as opposed to composite armour on the T-72A which makes them significantly more vulnerable. I didn't imagine they were that vulnerable though so I would be interested to see those pictures of front turret kills.

I also think that the side armour of a T-72 is very thin compared with T-64/T-80, as part of the philosophy that it is a compromise system, delivering big bang for buck. That weight no doubt was used up armouring the front.

[During Action Report - hcrof vs Mike Churchmoor!]

Sightings of movement are now reported all over the north hill. Movement in the tree line, infantry and machine guns running to occupy HILLFARM and tanks and BMPs moving into positions on the south and west flanks of the hill.

My left hand platoon fires as it leapfrogs its way up the hill while their BMPs provide overwatch. The right hand platoon pause and regroup, ready to advance through the wheat field. Spotting rounds crash down onto the tree line near the enemy, one of them treebursting. This barrage will be devastating...

Mike has finally done what I wanted him to do and moved infantry into HILLFARM and I think the tree line as well. This will make them vulnerable to my BMPs parked out of RPG range. Should he bring armour forward, my AT-4 will hopefully deal with it. I am just worried about those tanks! If they stay in the forest they are safe and will threaten the flanks of any advance

My infantry will continue with the advance with the BMPs in overwatch. As soon as the mortars start falling they will get more aggressive!

Note that this is a convex hill so My BMPs are all hull down with regard to the treeline and the enemy BMP in HILLFARM cannot see anything. I suspect that it is the one with no gunner anyway.