abneo3sierra

I would not say the same thing regarding use of government funds, vs government actually in control of.. The military is one of the few things, government was mandated to control, in our constitution, and a fine job generally, mostly because the people controlling it on a day to day basis are usually not politicians, but rather people who have been trained for it. Most things "military" have been done well, until "politicians" actually become involved..then, we run low on logistics for budgetary reasons, run over on deployment because of budgetary reasons also, as they do not provide enough manpower, to do the many things they need us to do..etc. So the common thread,just like it will be with the government involvement in the medical field, is that once politicians are involved, and dealing with budgetary issues, overall quality will decrease, in anything the politicians touch. This would be the case, unless they allowed people who actually KNOW the subject, to be involved more in the money discussions..where right now, barely a bill can be debated,for anything,without every politician involved, adding in so much "pork"spending that the original issue many times ends up being the LEAST, as far as money being budgeted. Want a defense bill for xxxx? ok..but lets also add in this politician's pet project in his district, this one's in this state...and by the end, the original project being voted on, is buried with many things that have no part in the discussion even. This happens everytime, as you can see by just a few hours of CSPAN coverage lol.

Well..I do not see the government as "bad"..however, myself having also been around enough, usually at the sharp end of the decisions that are made, I see them mostly as incompetent. The VA medical system is a joke, the postal service loses money yearly, Amtrak train service can never manage to turn a profit, despite actually being a fairly popular method of transportation for many people. 90% of the decision making portion of the federal government, give or take a little, is composed of lawyers...who are great at writing laws, decent at interpreting those laws, but horrible at anything else..not the same as seeing them as "boogeymen"..just more a joke.

Hahaha..good point Michael...

Come on...nobody from BFC took the bait??? Steve?? lol

I think that quite a fair argument can be made for this, but also for the hundreds of millions spent by labor unions to support Democrat Party candidates..the Democrats were ready to make some rulings on this particular item,when they realized they would have to forfeit the donations of labor unions, they basically backed off..my point is, it goes both ways..and even worse, in this direction, because the labor unions spend money to support anyone with a 'D' by their name, regardless of the wishes of those whose money they are taking, to pay for said donations. Still, it is wandering way off topic here and into the realm of politics I think.

There have been some mods which add water, but it's effects are not modeled in this game, I believe the mods actually just changed the appearance of swamps.

Tea is doable...but I would assume the reason for coffee,and cola on the list, is the caffeine, and tea has a lot of that as well I believe. Sadly...that also rules out my Mountain Dew :-(

I do think decent healthcare being AVAILABLE is a human right..I strongly question whether government is actually who I would turn to for said "decent healthcare" as they pretty well muck up everything they touch..see AMTRAK train system, US Postal system, VA medical system for veterans, etc. I do NOT think politicians, long ago, and far away removed from the real world citizens they supposedly are elected to serve, are more capable of handling health care choices than are doctors who have endured countless long days and years in medical school, residency, etc. So, while I see the same objective as you do, I disagree on the path to that objective, is all.

@ Diesel..I do think it is a bad thing to have someone judge by strictly an economic, or even a scientific, gauge, whether someone else should be given the chance,whatever the odds, to fight for their life. The rest of what you said, I agree with though. @Lemon..agree in the overall sense with what you are saying, and perhaps I misunderstand something with regard to the healthcare in EU then... @Womble...the "class war" thing really is old lol.

Ok, now that I have your attention..any news on the patch yet??? Hey.I bet at least you read this one! lol.

hahaha..the age of the forum? I am still quite awhile from having to deal with it I think(hope)...but wow, some of those I would have guessed, but coffee? as #1? $hit! I cannot live without that :-) edit..between nose blowing and normal sex :-) it still doesn't catch coffee????

Lemon, again, see the discussion above it..it is the ONLY way that system can work, is if there is some "oversight" committee to avoid spending money "unnecessarily" which was the beginning topic of this post even. As for the EU...most of the reason the credit agencies dumped the credit ratings(wandering off topic, forgive me) was because they cannot pay their bills. MOSTLY this is because of the various social programs that have been em placed there. This is why as the governments in places like Greece and France and Britain, are finally realizing this, the people are protesting against "austerity"measures, because the government FINALLY recognizes that you cannot keep handing out money to everyone,and taxing the "wealthy" to pay for it..sooner or later, those "wealthy" will not have money to employ people,and the money going into the government decreases..fewer workers, fewer jobs..then the entire thing becomes top heavy and collapses..everyone getting benefits, nobody (or, not nearly enough people) putting into the pot. Now unlike a "family budget" ..the government can go and actually print money to cover this problem up for a little while, this is the phase the US is in..but after a short time, this also devalues the worth of the currency,thus making everyone even poorer than they were,and the cycle continues...sooner or later, anyone with any economic education at all, will tell you, something has to change...these systems are not meant to do what they are doing.

@JonS..I agree, my point was only that the fact wealthy people(however they got that wealth) usually will choose to come to the US for their health care, definitely means our doctors are doing something right. @Magpie..agreed, I like your system actually, did not include it..but then again, a lot more people there seem willing to actually work and "put in" to the pot, than here, where far too much of the population seems content to sit down and collect whatever crumbs the government is able to pass out every month. In a system where people are putting in, it CAN work, but I do not see that anywhere, with exception of your region (unsure of NZ, if they have the same)

See the topic to which I was referring, where Stalins Organist stated that those panels were pretty much a requirement in order to keep any type of budget in a system paid for by taxpayers..it is common sense, and I agree with him..my point was,that the only way "Obamacare" could really work,at all, would be to impose them..if you have millions of patients,and limited money(as the US government, for one, is pretty much bankrupt already) someone HAS to decide, who gets care, and who does not. Thus, the conservatives were actually correct, in pointing that out. As for those who live in a place where the care is free..EU is also going bankrupt, in large part due to things like that..once there are many people "collecting" and few people "paying" the system collapses from the top down, besides that most doctors will not work in a system where they must spend hundreds of thousands of dollars for schooling, and then be told by the government that they cannot actually make money, which is why most of the medical profession also has issues with this. Nevertheless, as I said, I am actually in favor, I just find it funny that most of the people in favor, were thinking they were getting free healthcare out of it, and now find that it really meant they will be forced to buy it.

Not sure I would call it the worst in the world, kings(Thailand) come here for healthcare, not to mention politicians in the last 10 yrs, alone, from Italy, Netherlands,Canada,and Japan..just to name the ones off the top of my mind.

Well, actually, it is law, so that is a moot point..I think now the original supporters are P'ed off because the thing never was about "free healthcare" as the poor sods thought it was, but rather a requirement that they BUY healthcare...pretty cruel trick on them, but I am all for it..if you can afford to drive a nice car, buy satellite television, etc, but then complain that healthcare is too high, too bad, you should buy things like insurance to take care of yourself instead of my tax dollars taking care of you lol.

Hey Diesel, Yes..much more fun antagonizing you guys on the board, than getting shot at or dodging IEDs :-) I agree with the number slightly over 100k..which is why I doubted the numbers of hundredS of thousands...still, amazing how many different figures there are. And quite a lot of those were killed, not as a result of combat by western (read, American and British,primarily) forces, but by the lawlessness which almost instantly appeared (obvious to anyone with a brain, but somehow missed by such as Rumsfeld) once the existing government was removed, and various tribal prejudices reared their ugly heads. While these casualties may have been caused indirectly by the invasion, they were not directly..and even the 'indirect' argument is something close to a person who sneaks into a house to commit a murder against its sleeping occupants, claiming that the occupants really were at fault for not having better security...never mind the fact here, that the former Iraqi regime killed ,tortured, and beat, more in the years before the war, than were killed during the war. Still, sorry for pulling the thread so far off its topic, it was about bin Laden..I for one am glad the guy is dead.

There have still been over 1000 attempted "Islamic" attacks in the USA since 9-11, and over 17000 in the world since then. As I prepare to go BACK over, AGAIN, in a couple of weeks, it is definitely my hope that it ends, but it cannot end while one side is continuing to fight. Also as a side note, the numbers of "hundreds of thousands" of death and torture has been debunked as well, these are numbers based upon what the enemy has said, and many thousands of the purported 'victims' have been found, to have been killed by the previous regimes,rather than by western military action.

Diesel.. A FEW anti-abortion acts by single or even a dozen people..ok..compare that with Islam turning out hundreds of thousands, killing,burning..for burning the Koran, or even more millions!! for a newspaper's cartoon reference to Muhammed..just as recent,easy examples..the Movie 2012..had originally planned to show the destruction also of Mecca..stopped because they did not want to inflame people..if the people are so peaceful,why would they be inflamed by the imaginary destruction of a "holy site"? The movie DID show the destruction of St Peter's Basilica in Rome,and how many Catholics rioted? hmm..I do not recall any.. There are parody references to Jesus, etc in all kind of TV shows..do Christians go on a rampage and burn things for it? NO.. There IS a difference, and if you are unable to see it, perhaps it would help if you opened your eyes.

NO, I am not, this is why I specifically said since the 1700s at least, to rule out all of the "old thinking"Christians. The problem is,that most Muslims, are "old thinking" Muslims still.

Diesel..fundamentalist Christians have not 1)flown airplanes into buildings to kill civilians 2)strapped bombs onto their person,walked into a bus,train,mall,etc to kill,again,civilians 3)burned down embassies,churches,homes,etc to protest any of the MANY insults to Christians that are rampant in the world 4) well..heck..must I really give you more examples? Also, Israel was there, long before the Arabs and Palestinians..Israel is the only real democracy in the region still, giving Arabs a vote(there are many Arabs in the Israeli parliament knesset) While in radical Islamic countries, one must actually BE a muslim to vote...assuming they even vote,as they do not in many of them. Regarding Iraq..you are correct, they were/are secular..in Iraq, the killings were done for secular, not religious reasons..as I was talking about radical Islam, that was not the same thing..however, even in Iraq, NOW, radical Islam is fast gaining ground in the south. Mostly though, just am insulted by your opening sentence, as never in history, at least since the 1700s,shall we say, has CHRISTIAN (which was not 'fundamental Christian' even at that time) nations fought wars or attacked people because of religion,while Islam's most holy book, orders them to, their Imams, etc, preach it on a daily basis even still..you will never walk into a Christian church where people are calling for "holy war" "kill the infidels"

science based criteria for getting them means that some scientist determines whether the expense of the treatment is worth the persons life, essentially..I hope they never consider that as a high consideration..as someone whose father was kept alive by one of these machines because the doctor took a chance, (against 'science based criteria' ) and gave me 6 more years with him, I would also not want to see that doctor, or anyone else in trouble for the choice..I could not disagree with you more on this one Diesel..you should hope you never are the one being told that you cannot have a treatment because you do not fit the qualifications devised by some board of scientists.

Popular Science Magazine, was one of the best "proofs" out there..mostly because they did it so even an "idiot" (their word, not mine) could understand...they gathered experts in every related field, and thoroughly trashed the various conspiracy theories regarding 9-11. However, as I said, those who will believe them,will still believe them...the only thing accomplished by their (very massive)undertaking, was to show open minded, intelligent people who nevertheless may have had questions. As far as "superior"blood spilled..the difference is we did not attack first, radical Islam attacked the west first, it has been attacking the west for centuries...and yes, the west has also attacked it back, war is like that...if they did not want war, they should not have begun one...but I digress. The numbers killed are yet another thing that is questionable,with wide range of numbers,brought up by wide range of experts. That is immaterial though, because, again, it is war..and obviously one side will lose, me, I hope it is the enemy, I have spent a lot of time fighting them, you..maybe you hope it is us, but then realize that if Radical Islam got its wish, you would be converted..hope you have no daughters, because they are not allowed to go to school, gays?hey..not only can they not marry, they cannot live..people doing drugs? forget putting them in prison, kill them.. The people in Iraq, and in Afghanistan, have been freed from these rules,and most are happy about it,only the fringe (in Iraq) and slightly more than the fringe (in Afghanistan) miss the old ways. Now,they can actually complain about their governments...before, in both places, that was a death sentence,as hundreds of thousands of Iraqis buried in mass graves could attest, if they could still speak. In short, there IS a difference between our side, and theirs..if you cannot see that from New York(home of 9-11..wow,amazing..) then you should go see it from there.

Actually there have been plenty of experts who have debunked the various conspiracy theories of 9-11. There are many 'experts' who have 'proven' that man did not walk on the moon, as well. In the age of internet, it is fairly easy to find an expert to prove or disprove every theory. The events of 9-11 however,which destroyed so many lives, have been proven...I guess that maybe some people could even see something with their own eyes, and still not believe it,and for people like that, there really can be no proof, because they will believe what they will believe.