DeLaVega

Jonesy777 you are right. I don`t understand the BFC politics regarding this demo either. Everything was said about a pre-release and that the demo will come out around the release date. But why is the exact date such a secret? I mean, the game was originally released last fall. What kept them so long for releasing a demo? Especially so close to the release of the game. For us pre-orderers it had no use, not even to raise the anticipation level. If the demo is out tomorrow and the full version the day after, maybe it`s like you said and not recommended to check the demo.

Most of these scenes were shot for propaganda purposes to be shown at the Wochenschau or the russian counterpart. Dramatized in the editing room.

Reichenberg: Funny, I also watched this video 2 days ago. ...and thought about, what good sound files you could get for a game, if you just want. Yesterday night I played the "Sudden Strike 3" Demo again, and even there the tank firing sounds are nice. A game which is not about presentation at all. Hope in ToW it`s moddable. MikoyanPT: You are so right. I posted about this in another thread, too. It`s really a pity that the voices sound so inappropriate. Just the friends of the developers sitting in front of a mic, I guess. CoolColJ: Nice videos. If I hear the scary fly-over sound of the Mustangs and compare them to the old IL-2 fly-over sounds of the latest video ... better don`t.

For me the main thing is that we (all who pre-ordered) based the pre-order just on videos, screens, these AAR reports and whatever stuff you can find. This means we belong to the crazy bunch of people who cannot wait to get it and even would pick it up personally at the Battlefront HQ. Okay, in most times you place your pre-order on pre-release stuff, but am I able to send back the game to Battlefront after I got it, waited for the demo, played the demo and then want to ship my sealed box back to Battlefront? Probably not, because I got the download, too. Haha, that makes me the stupid pre-orderer. I appreciate the way Battlefront releases games being their own publisher, but one thing is no secret, these products will never be taken home by the majority of people. Now you could say that we don`t even want to be part of the mainstream with our interest for realistic tactical games. But since we belong to the minority of gamers, and the pre-orderers belong to a minority within this minority, can`t there be a little candy for us, a little surprise? Just a little reward for the trust? Many here are waiting for the demo to decide, whether they order or not. We didn`t even wait for the demo, we placed our order directly. And sorry to say, but the closer the release of the demo will be to the release date of the game the less serious it looks for me. I have to admit that I placed my pre-oder because of the "getting it earlier" point. I know it sounds stupid, we waited for almost 4 years and now it depends on days. But this cannot be explained by words. And about the money saving: Even within the relatively small city I`m living in the prices have a range of about 20$. "Supreme Commander" in the small electronics store at the corner costed 35 Euro (within the first days as a release offer), but in the main department stores in the inner city the normal price was 50 Euro. So, if you are not at a particular shop at the right time ...there goes your money. I think many of you reasonable guys are right, it`s stupid to negotiate for days and Battlefront does what it can. But what was hoped by many being "rewarded" for pre-ordering even without a demo, just vanished into thin air. For me personally it doesn`t matter much. I have enough to do until next Thursday. Although it`s hard to be kicked into reality again, after a nice day-dream...

Hm, although I think the sound will do, I still hope for it to be moddable. I think the different engine and distant artillery sounds are nice, but all the "hand-weapons" have to sound "thicker". Not only that they sound cheap, there were all used before in different WW2 games. The MP`s and the MG 34`s ...what kind of sound should that be? A nail-gun? And the fly-over sound of the planes? At first I thought halftracks were approaching. Instead of the IL-2 sound they should have used the fly-over sound from the scene in "A bridge too far" in which the Spitfire performs a fly-over for this dutch boy (for example). But, as I said before, I think it will do ...for the first 2 weeks. I know the video was focused on the sound, but the vehicle animations impressed me much more. And the different look of the soldiers with even one (german) medic in their ranks. Very nice. I think ToW could be the platform for the perfect WW2 game.

I think all you guys are right. No matter what role the 88 played in France/ Africa/ Russia it had quite an effect on everything it hit. And because of its accuracy it was even used against the firing slits of the Maginot line. Probably you all heard about the crazy inventions the germans had in mind. So, they also attached the barrel of the gun to the Ju-87 Stuka. It almost blew the plane into pieces. But that they wanted to try this at all speaks for the gun, I think. But, as Elmar said, they had to use more ways to attack the superior T-34`s. The 88`s were just to thinly spread. The main advantage over the French and Russian tanks at these ages was the radio which was installed in the german tanks. So the commanders could communicate not only to their platoon, but also could ask for direct artillery and air support. For me as a player I have to say that I also like this gun, but, if I recall my playing history I can`t remember what advantage this gun brought me? Maybe it killed a handful of tanks, but each time it was also killed either by overwhelming enemy forces or by artillery/ mortar barrages. This just shows that a static defense line is damned to be broken through. At least in games. I read about one incident where only one of such a caliber gun showed its worth. A single 90mm american AA gun placed in the middle of the town of Stoumont/ Belgium and stopped Kampfgruppe Peiper until reinforments arrived for a counter-attack during the Ardennes Offensive. Seems Mr. Peiper hasn`t played Combat Mission before. ...Don`t attack an 90mm AA gun if there`s just one road with Line-of-Sight leading to it.

...not even new videos or screens? :-( Came from work just now and hoped for a nice little e-mail notice that there`s a little something waiting for me to download. Just anything would do. But ... nothing. (not even spam) Seems "Hearts of Iron DD" and "Close Combat 3" have to be my choice for this weekend. Though I like them very much, I`m SO not pleased about it!

...but will there be a way to clear them? Would be a little annoying if you always have to challenge your luck and force your tanks through the minefields.

...and there will be always some sick minds who celebrate this. As if there`s nothing else to pursue in life.

Since I haven`t found anything about the campaigns and missions I`m not sure, how the campaign system works in the game. But I guess it`s just a few missions linked together. So, for my wishlist this would be the main topic: A real linked campaign throughout the war, or at least that you can push the enemy to the edge of the map (or be pushed) and then continuing the new map at this point (as in the Combat Mission Operations or the Close Combat Series Maps). As far as it concerns me I would say that this is most important, if you have a Role-Playing Game skill system. Why should I pay attention to my troops skills, if a campaign only consists of 5 missions? (for example) The next thing would be a Quick Mission Generator for replayability or a randomly created campaign. It`s much more important for me that the maps change each time I start again than well-modelled maps with a detailed landscape/ urban areas. Ah, and dense forests, of course. Nothing is more frightening than a dense forest with only one path leading through it.

Miguel, I think the critics come up with the expectations and the long years of waiting. As I said in the other post, I pre-ordered it and I`m quite sure that many of the people here in the forum want to get it as well. In so far the years of anticipation made everyone believe they will get a close to perfect game when it is released. So, it`s quite hard to realize that it`s not what you expected in some points after these years of development. For me this intro movie was new and, except the sound, I like it, too. But for the persons who knew it already, it`s not fresh anymore and that point I can understand, has the look of an old furniture. I think, many here will buy it, no matter what. It`s just the relation of anticipation, expectations and "what was done" in these years.

I saw it for the first time just now and I think it has some kind of atmosphere. What bothers me ... again ... are the used sounds. Why did they only use 3 sound effects? The firing tanks, the explosions, the barrages, all the same. And then, at the end, the Panther breaches through the wall exactly with the same sound of the firing bazooka? Hm, seems the sound guy didn`t have fun with his work. And where are the Stuka screams? Nice intro from the graphics and atmosphere (for me). But, sorry to say, I think a sound patch is badly needed.

Maybe I should mention that Kettenhund and me are not talking about the audio quality or the sample rate here. It`s just the choice of the sound files for each weapon. In this video from TOW you have a quite good example of gun sounds which are used in so many 2.WW games and go back to the old "Close Combat" series. If you watch it until 01:20 min. you can here the HMG sound. And in comparison this one from COH: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3XoZl2IdhiM If you wait until around 01:20 you can hear the HMG without the disturbing other gunshots. And this is what I meant. In the TOW video I miss the mechanical metal sounds. There`s no flow, just the same nock, nock, nock sound file again and again. And this is a pity, because TOW`s overall look gives a very good impression. I think the tank models are nearly unmatched. With the realism options and battle distances it could be huge.

I haven`t found anything about the different campaigns yet. Does anyone know, if there will be a mission which deals with the battle of the bulge or any other winter engagement between US and german forces?

Kettenhund, this is actually what I have been afraid of. :-( Hope anyone who has a feeling for sound can deal with it. Now I can adjust my expectations. Thanks for your post.

Hm, Martin. Understood. ...it`s just ...after all these years ...it`s hard to describe what the heart feels.

To pwncake: Seems we have the same system. Hm, especially for you I installed CM 1 and CM 3 (unpatched), too and they work normally. I only chose the 1024*768 resolution at 75 Hz. I use the Forceware 97.44 driver. Maybe it doesn`t work if you choose a very high resolution. I use Win XP with SP 2. To crazylegsmurphy: I agree what you said about that firing M10 and the videos in general. The firing M10 has no impact on me. And this is not because of the graphics, but the whole feeling about it. When I remember the firing Jagdtiger in CM 1 I get tears in my eyes. Not only the firing sound, but also the exploding shell sound made me rewinding the recording of the turn again and again. Although in Combat Mission 1 the environment and vehicles looked quite static, I could feel some "power". Maybe this sounds ridiculous, but when I remember my first match in CM 1 with Kampfgruppe Peiper (Night in Cheneux) and I fired the mortar barrages into the woods and moved the camera to that position I felt if I was under fire. Later, in Multiplayer games I got scared, if my opponent purchased the Rocket Artillery. This sound scared me to death and made me worry about my troops. Years ago, when I actually found the battlefront site (no magazine in germany had reported about that game at this time and it was just luck) and ordered Combat Mission I was excited like a child at christmas and I never stopped playing it. And although the Hi-Res tank textures looked best for me, on the market this series was never about graphics and animation. But it was an experience to play! In the first 10 minutes you have the hope that you could win the battle without too many losses. But the enemy keeps coming and coming and slightly you use up your reserves and at the end you are just happy that you turned the tides and reached a draw. The buildings which caught fire by accident, the Panzerfaust miss which turned a wheat field into a burning hell. The platoon with what you wanted to recon the dense forest and ran into a complete company and even more, realizing that there are more enemy forces inside the forest than you have left on the complete battlefield. This is an experience. My opinion is that as long as TOW can create this atmosphere and thrilling experience, too, it has a chance to survive within this community. But what I cannot forget (until I get this atmosphere from TOW) is that it has quite a long development time and from the screenshots and videos you couldn`t see any progress at all. Just several infantrymen and a few tanks attacking trenches in emptiness. Yes, Martin, you are right. Just a couple of persons cannot develop like a team of 100 backed by well off publishers. But what prevents them to use new and fresh sound files like COH did? Why do we always have to wait for mod-creators who work this over for free? It`s like in so many films. They use the same sound files over and over again. And to be honest, after I bought "Pacific Fighters" I was very disappointed that 1C used the same sound files as in IL-2. But I don`t want to believe that a BF-109 sounds like a F-4 or a Zero. And then I watched the last video and have to realize that the ...what are they...Thunderbolts?... are going down with the same sound as used in IL-2. Hm. So, the graphics engine taken from IL-2, the sounds taken from it... but the release was ... oh, sorry, is coming soon? Why isn`t the name "IL-Theatre of Sturmovik-War"... Sorry for my provocing. But, as in any relationship, I don`t want to be hurt, after such a long time of dreams and desire. Anyone who hasn`t checked out www.youtube.com yet. There are short videos with a King- and Jagdtiger from the russian version.

To pwncake: My 8800GTX can play all the Combat Mission parts. What processor do you have? Mine is an Intel E6600. To Martin: I do agree that you shouldn`t get a final result based on the videos, but this was just an example for the whole impression I got until now. And by the way, the COH sounds I referred to rocked even in the pre-release videos. Maybe anyone here who own "Pacific Storm" can agree to this. The graphics were nice, the sound ... just not right ones for warships. So, it seems that the russian developers haven`t focused on that yet (same with the "Officers" Demo). And this also includes the voice samples. Let`s just say that they shouldn`t have asked their friends to borrow their voices. For americans the germans may sound right, because it`s some kind of foreign language , but as a german (which I am) you hardly can stop smiling. And this forces you not only to turn off the in-game music, but the Krauts, too. Please, don`t get me wrong. I love realistic tactical and strategic games. Much more than the mainstream RTS games in which you only have to shoot down an energy bar. I can live with minimal graphics and sounds (otherwise I wouldn`t play "Hearts of Iron"), what I just hope is that TOW can catch the atmosphere like "Combat Mission" does. I put my hopes on this game since I saw the first screenshot of it. It shouldn`t be a bridge until CM: Shock Force arrives. Martin, may I suggest something: Maybe you can provide us with a video which has in-game music turned down and ambient and battle sounds turned up Or better: Ship out the game at once!

After watching the last video I had different thoughts, but none of them were too positive ...if I recall. Reading that it was really in-game music scares me, because I like good in-game music (e.g. Silent Hunter 4, Rise & Fall), but this sounded exactly like the music of "Pacific Storm" and there`s nothing you can do, except turn it off. I really don`t understand why russian products are lacking in this point, though they have really amazing composers. Whatabout the other sounds? Just a "plop" for tanks and "knick" for infantry weapons? Company of Heroes treated my ears very well lately with so many different and shattering sounds. It was the first tactical game ever where I turned the volume up. All the changing sound effects from CM 1 to part 3 were more satisfying, than the examples I heard from all the videos. Why do you see the flashes of the explosions through the trees? Why do the explosions almost look the same except the size? Whatabout these small smoke clouds after the tanks are firing? They look exactly as if taken from IL-2. I loved IL-2, but there are a few years gone now. And when tanks are firing, the smoke after firing should stay there a little longer, not even mentioning the flying dirt around it. I know that there are limitations, but what`s left of the graphics makes me a little sad. I followed the news about this game right from the start, but after changing the environment from realistic "grey" colors to the golf course "green" with cloned trees and bushes, it lost atmosphere for me. By the way, the scale of this game is always mentioned, but most times you only see 20-30 infantry men and about 3-5 tanks. What use do big battle maps have, if there are only platoon`s on them? If the foxholes are really manned by only 5 soldiers, why should I use artillery strikes on them? I don`t want to be too demanding, it`s just that I compare the actual state with the years of development. Of course, after all I didn`t lose faith in this product. I even pre-ordered it. It`s just ... I really hope it`s more than what the videos show. Autumn or snowy landscapes with 20 soldiers and 2 tanks shooting at each other over a few hundred meters with no tactics at all. Just frontal assaults. I hope it has the atmosphere the CM parts have. That one actual get the feeling of being there with your troops ...and the satisfying AAR afterwards, which shows that you only lost 70% of your men. Hope TOW is replayable and moddable like your amazing Combat Mission Series. Then it has the chance to be a classic, otherwise it will be replaced ...by Combat Mission again.