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Cuirassier

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Posts posted by Cuirassier

    Russian Training Scenario 110

    in Combat Mission: Barbarossa to Berlin

    Posted

    I have played 110 twice more, failing the first time, and succeeding the second. On the second try, I got a spot on turn 14, took three causalties in the advance, and eliminated the 42. I agree with Steve P in that there are too many random variables in this sceanrio to be able to succeed at it with any consistency.

    All I did was have three of the squads put down area-fire while having a fourth squad 'advance' forward, typically 20m or so. Staggered movement, just like everyone else. Once I knew where the MG was it was all over and eventually it tried to make a run for it or something and was killed instantly.

    Just wondering if this victory was achieved when the MG-42 was reoriented the correct way. Before it was, area fire was very effective, but I thought it was useless against the MG if he was actually facing the right way, or so I have read from others' posts. In this scenario, I try to not use area fire, as in a real mission, you would not know the actuall locatio of he shooter based only on sound contacts (he might be in the trench, pines, woods, etc.

    What did you find out from playing scenario 111 With The Orientation Corrected?

    I have yet to play 111 with the MG reoriented. I have skipped ahead and am currently playing 200. Your point is interesting though, and something I haven't considered. Basically, with the MG's reoriented, I am beginning think these three scenarios (110, 111, 112) are slightly flawed. They are much too difficult. Then again, in 111 and 112, your platoons aren't vanilla like 110, and the overwatch MG's have considerable ammo depth for supressing sound contacts, although MG's aren't great at this.

    I will try it soon and report my results.

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    Russian Training Scenario 110

    in Combat Mission: Barbarossa to Berlin

    Posted

    Thanks for the logical and interesting comments. I am trying the scenario again, to hopefully confirm I didn't fluke out.

    What sort of timing are you chaps getting? I don't get a spot until turn 10 (with two panicked squads). At what point do you get a spot? Do you keep advancing all units after getting the spot? Do you keep some just firing from cover?

    Getting a spot during turn 10, from my experience, is quite early in the game. I usually achieved spots at turn 15 being the earliest, so your approach evidently has no problems. Once it took me 17 turns to get a spot, as short advances take an exceptionally long time to get anywhere. When I do get a spot, I keep advancing. I found that staying staitionary, in which your platoon will be about 135m from the MG, the squads do not have enough firepower to break him. The best you get is a pin. Thus, I keep advancing the platoon, but only a squad at a time, for if everyone advances, firepower is halved. You must close the distance however, break him, and get at least a squad into grenade range.

    I think your approach assumes you can get the MG to switch firing from a nonmoving to a moving unit most of the time.
    Well, this is what I try to achieve by staggered movements. Obviously, it may not work all the time, but against the AI, I have had some success. Against a human opponent, your comments hold water and the tactic may not work. However, I still utilize it because every little bit helps.

    The reaction of the units to being fired upon in the open is also randomized. Sometimes they will take three shots and only pin. However, the same unit in the same location may rout after three shots the next time you play. And anytime you have a unit that goes into serious cover panic, breaks or routs, you start to have cascading problems (units bunching up near the same cover, units running outside the HQ's command radius, inability to keep other units advancing forward because they will get beyond the HQ's range -- and green units can't be advanced once they get outside of command).

    This is true. Sometimes units break with one burst, and other times they are just alerted, even when the MG prods away at them all day. All one can do is try to utilize their tactical knowledge to minimize this possibilty. Now when I play 110, I just quit the scenario if squads leave command radius, as the situation in my oppinion is not recoverable.

    I don't think using the Hide command is providing any benefit.
    You are probably correct. I just hide because of force of habbit from reading so many 'advance in the open' posts.

    Your point about avoiding movement in a lateral direction across the front of the MG, which creates flanking fire on a squad, is very interesting and might be a real insight. It's something I want to investigate more myself.
    This I haven't investigated thoroughly, but it is certainly something I have noticed in my experiences. For example, when a squad advanced directly at the MG from a house, the worst I recieved was a pinned, or a cover panic, only if the MG shot up that squad for over a minute. However, when I advanced a squad laterally, from the same position, it often panicked from the first burst. Perhaps this is just luck of the draw, but I did see some consistency in my games.

    I agree with Steve here- I honestly don't see the point of this scenario. It involves doing something that I would never do if I were playing for real and which would be even harder done properly
    I think this scenario has a valid point. Remember, the objective of it is to teach proper tactics as to how to advance infantry over open ground. Its purpose is not to teach you how to attack with only a green platoon at your disposal, which of course, would be ridiculous. To learn from this sceanrio, you don't have to necessarily pass. Just trying it teaches you important skills.

    I will report back when I am done my second go at this scenario.

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    Russian Training Scenario 110

    in Combat Mission: Barbarossa to Berlin

    Posted

    I should probably do it again to confirm mastery of this scenario. However, I will later... For now I'm going to gloat to myself the hard won victory I achieved. :D

    The largest diference between my success and failure I believe was my intervals. I used proper intervals the time I one, everyone being 26m from each other. I also utilized more coordinated staggering of squads.

    When I was failing at the scenario, I thought that I had proper intervals, but my squads were often only 15m apart, and their suppression effects were thus shared.

    The time I won the scenario, I used the village approach route. Two squads and the HQ advanced behind the log peaseant shack nearest the fence, while another squad advanced behind the white house to the near the hedge. My final squad was behind another log shack, just before the road. With this approach, I noticed that my infantry were well spaced, and, if staggered right, all of the men would leave cover at different times, but in close enough intervals to spread the fire. Once in the open ground, it got scary, but I pulled through. Intervals were maintained, staggers used, and I advanced and hid in 20m bounds, to keep everyone in command radius. Eventually, one squad made it to the left-most crater and another was adjacent to its left. From here, I got a spot on turn 17 I think, suppressed the MG-42, advanced to grenade range and took the flag.

    Frankly, I learned how to do this scenario (if it wasn't luck) by making my own scneario where I advanced a similar green platoon against an MG-42 in cover over open ground.

    Here I learned proper intervals, staggering, and that you shouldn't advance more than 20m at a time, or else maintaining command is difficult.

    This scenario needs more time added to it however, as in my experience it takes almost 20 turns to get to spot range. If you don't use the town for LOS blocks, you will never reach the MG in time.

    So what was different from the successful attempt and my many failures. I would say intervals. In the games I failed, I went through the town using houses as LOS blocks. But, I moved my entire platoon in column, hiding the whole thing behind one or only two houses. This is too close together. On my successful attempt. my men were spread throughout 3 houses, and when I advanced everyone used extremely short advances (forget using 50m advances-much too long) and fire was spread throughout the platoon. Sure, I had many pinns and even one panic, but the men rallied because the intervals allowed for squads not being picked on to recover ad advance. Thus, my 2 cents is this.

    1. Spread the platoon through the town, using houses as LOS blocks.

    2. Always advance towards the MG. I noticed if you advance sideways, for example, going across the street from one house to the other flanking fire will panic sqauds with one burst. However, if the squads advance straight and see the icoming bullets, they only become allerted or cautious, with pinned being the worst.

    3. When leaving the confines of the town, stagger movements, but amke sure everyone is out in the open quickly. Thus, one squad will not be isolated and picked on for over a minute by the MG.

    4. Use 20m advances in box formation, to keep everyone in command. For good staggering, I noticed that squads should advance 20m, with 20 second intervals seperating squad movements and hides.

    5. When a spot is achieved, keep moving the men forwards. At distance, their firepower is too weak to suppress the MG. Keep most men stationary however, as advancing halves firepower.

    Yep, that is what I have learned. I hope my success wasn't a fluke, but you never know.

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    Little Ponyri Station-SP

    in Combat Mission - Tips and Tricks

    Posted

    Don't worry by 110 and my nattering (if I was annoying you anyway) I finally passed it, with the MG facing the right way, while not modifying anything else.

    Anyway, back on topic. Just a few questions. I notice your far left company could perhaps do one of two things. It could break through the trench system and fight to the largest factory, or turn an roll up the Russian flank. Just out of curiosity, which tasking will it have? Or do you have a different plan for it? Finally, based on the resistance on the left map, are you adjusting your plan any, or going to continue the basic advance?

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    Russian Training Scenario 110

    in Combat Mission: Barbarossa to Berlin

    Posted

    The world no longer has anymore problems...

    I FINALLY PASSED 110 in 20 turns, with the MG-42 facing the right way and without changing the vanilla platoon one bit.

    I completed it on my 7th crack at it, passing it on turn 20 with a total victory. I forget the precise score, but I routed the MG and took 3 casualties myself, 1 being KIA (poor bastard).

    Finally, I can move on to the other training missions and won't be bothered by this hellish scenario. (Be honest, who hasen't flipped out after constantly failing at this scenario!)

    I couldn't be happier.

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    Attacking MG-42 AAR

    in Combat Mission: Barbarossa to Berlin

    Posted

    When playing Russian Training scenario 110, with the MG-42 reoriented to aim the right way, I failed five times in total, never succeeding once. I found this strange, because I am well rehearsed with infantry advance tactics, so I was flustered as to how I couldn't succeed. Because of my failure, I decided to make my own "advance and kill the MG-42 with useless Russian troops" scenario, to see if JasonC's training scenario is indeed impossible, or if my tactics were to blame.

    For my mission, I made a 400m by 400m map. The scenario was set in October 1942. Open ground, with very -no, extremely little cover extended from the Soviet setup zone to a small rise in the terrain where the flag, and German position lay. This was a large wood body, with one trench positioned in it. One MG-42, a regular, was padlocked in the trench, hidden, and facing the Soviets.

    Soviet forces were similar to that in 110. I have one green platoon, and the HQ has no special skills. He is purley vanilla and green, like the four squads he commands. My rifle platoon thus consisted of the 3-man, vanilla HQ, and four green Rifle 41 squads. They have 11 men and are armed with one SVT-40, 2 PPSH, 1 DP LMG and 7 Mosin-Nagants. The scenario was 30+ turns to advance a green platoon about 300m over open ground against a dug in MG-42.

    I completed the scenario in 29 turns and achieved a total victory, 94 to 6. I eliminated the MG-42's crew, killing two of them, while I lost 8 men, 3 being killed. 39 men were allocated as ready for action.

    After doing this scenario I made, I learned four vital lessons about attacking over open ground.

    1. Keep everyone in command radius always. If you let squads out of command radius for more than probably 30 seconds, and they recieve fire, they will panic, then break, then route and die.

    2. Maintain intervals. This is probably the most important. If everyone is at least 26m apart, suppression effects will not be shared by squads, and advancing and rallying becomes much easier.

    3. Advance in short jumps. JasonC and others usually recommend 50m or even as little as 30m. For this scenario, most of my advances were as little as 20m, to allow everyone to stay in command radius, which is limited to only 45m of the HQ.

    4. Stagger the advances. One squad moves at a time. As soon as he hits the dirt and hides, a new one pops up and advances, then hits the ground, and a new squad moves out. I found the staggering was most effective with 20m to 30m advances and 20 sec intervals between squad departures. Fire will upset a staggering cycle, but it is still very useful and must be utilized to the fullest on any advance.

    I can post more details and pictures if anyone else is interested. For posting pictures however, some one will have to tell me how. Sadly enough, I don't know. I have the save games from turn two till the endgame as well.

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    Little Ponyri Station-SP

    in Combat Mission - Tips and Tricks

    Posted

    OK...

    I was just wondering how to advance a green platoon up to spotting range of an MG when the individual squads break from one burst.

    I wouldn't call it dead either. I don't know of any players who have beaten this scenario once the MG was reoriented properly.

    Anyway, this is off topic, and you are entitled to your opinion.

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    Little Ponyri Station-SP

    in Combat Mission - Tips and Tricks

    Posted

    Thaknyou for the detailed DAR. I agree that the large number of forces, especially the reinforcements, contribute to the difficulty of managing the battle correctly. Your organization is much better than what mine was though.

    On a different topic, I was wondering if you would read my Russian Training Scenario 110 post in the CMBB forum. As you probably suspect, I require your expert advice to solve my problems...

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    Russian Training Scenario 110

    in Combat Mission: Barbarossa to Berlin

    Posted

    Since the generic Russian Training scenario thread is 11 pages of unsorted information regarding all of the seperate scenarios, I though I should make a thread that is only specific to each scenario.

    Before I changed the facing of the MG-42 on this scenario (the MG-42 was facing with its back to my platoon), I passed Scenario 110 with little difficuluty. However, today, I changed his facing to what it should be. Now he fires earlier and is creating havoc whenever I try to advance my platoon. I have tried the scenario three times so far, to no avail.

    I know the basic tactics involved. For example, I stagger my movements, advance no more that 50m at a time, and hide at the end of each waypoint. In fact, I have tried advances as short as 10m. I keep my troops in blob formation, or 2 by 2 with the HQ in the middle. I have tried a number of approach routes: one from the default set up, one from the left hand side of the map, and one down the road, using the houses for cover and hoping to reach the fence.

    Despite this, I men rapidly pin, cover panic and often panic all together. The platoon is so brittle. One squad simply broke from one birst of machinegun fire, despite taking no casualties. I realize that rallying the men is important too, but there is limited scenario time and even when moving non yellow squads, the machine gun plinks away at the squad he shot at first, panicing it and quickly routing it.

    Thus, what am I doing wrong. Are my tactics flawed? Do I need a different avenue of approach? Or is it ok if men panic and side ways sneak out of command radius? If this appens, is the platoon recoverable, or are you done for.

    I look forward to how more tactically skilled players have done on this scenario and how they have beaten it.

    I will probably make posts on the other training scenarios as well, to discuss tactics and general strategies.

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    Little Ponyri Station-SP

    in Combat Mission - Tips and Tricks

    Posted

    Thanks for the excellent reports JasonC. I am greatly looking forward to the outcome of this battle. The inaccuracies you have pointed out are also many. Indeed, it would be nice if someone made a redo of this scenario, using appropiate forces and terrain. I would, based on your suggestions, but I have limited experience.

    Awesome job though!.

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    How Germany could of defeated the S.U. during Barbarossa?

    in Combat Mission: Barbarossa to Berlin

    Posted

    Latley I have been reading some books on the German invasion of the Soviet Union. Now, I have heard and read many times that Germany lost because of their overconfidence and failure to mobilize the entire population for the war effort. Despite this, I am wondering if anyone thinks the Germans still could of won, without having to commit to total war.

    The Germans drafted a number of plans before Hitler eventually adopted his bizzarre three pronged north, center, south plan. The first was that the primary objectives be Kiev and Moscow, with only minor flank protection. Does anyone think this may have been more successful?

    The next plan decided a weighted blow would be delivered in Leningrad, with Moscow being a secondary objective. I don't think this had much merit. What is in Leningrad?

    I think the Germans could have maybe won in one of two ways. The first would be to drive for Moscow, be in the central position, and then systematicaly destroy Russian forces in the Northern or Southern sectors one at a time, negating Russia's numerical strength. However, Moscow could also have been dangerous, as it may have degenerated into a siege war like Stalingrad, and spelled early defeat for the Germans.

    The other way that the Germans maybe could have won would be to drive for the Caucasus early, and ruin the Soviet War effort by achieving these economic objectives, like oil, etc. Despite this, I do not think this would have worked, even if the Germans had rapidly conquered the Caucasus, as I am an attrtionist and believe that the physical destruction of the Soviet army was necessary. Thus, I think the Moscow, central position plan, would have been a better option.

    Anyway, I guess I am wondering if anyone thinks that the Germans could have defeated the Soviet Union without resorting to total war. Perhaps an earlier invasion? A more firm plan to destroy the Soviet army? Many hypothetical scenarios.

    Looking forward to the replies! :D

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