Cuirassier
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Posts posted by Cuirassier
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For starters, don't run your mortars out of ammo (espscially the 82mm) if they haven't dealt with PAK yet. There specific task in the combined arms hiearchy is to deal with high value point targets first-in other words anti tank/infantry guns. Their next target is MG's. Mortars, especially the 50's, are a waste on infantry squads. The 50's will only pin, and maybe cause a couple casaulties. The 82mm will break squads with a couple minutes of fire, but won't kill more than a few men. Also, it has limited ammo. Their best value is thus to kill AT guns.Two questions, once my mortars ran out of ammo I used the AT rifles as Heavy support to my infantry in attacking foxholes /trenches that held enemy infantry, I found them to be very effective in this task. Is this gamey or were they used for that purpose in real life?Also when I target using a spotter for offboard artillery it can sometimes take over 20 turns for the artillery to fire, is this normal or am I doing something wrong or is this the norm?
As for the ATR's, it probably is not gamey to use them for a suppressive role against dug in troops. They have plenty of ammo, and not much use other than scouting, as they have binocs, or HT plinking. Thus, you might as well use them for something. Also, I have read in some books that they have been used to fire at etrenched enemies. Your primary suppression weapons are artillery (prep 122mm and reactive 120mm) and, of course, the HE heavy T-34's. Make sure PAK doesn't kill all three, or else you will not have enough HE to cover the infantry advance.
As to why your artillery spotter takes 20 or more minutes to call down a barrage is because he is a 122mm spotter, calling in support for divisional guns I believe, which takes long periods of time in the Soviet system of command. Also, the spotter is a conscript, which significantly lowers his reactivity, but makes him cheap for 30 heavy shells he has. Thus, this FO is to be used for prep fire only. This is how the Soviet Union uses its heavy artillery. Aim it at the big cover and conform your advance to its use. After recieving feedback from JasonC, I have found the best time to set the 122mm barrage it for is during the period where your infantry are advancing over the open terrain, to the rough, as this is when they are most vulnerable. Thus fire it off from anywhere between minute 6 to minute 15. Keep in mind, the barrage will fall for about four minutes once it begins.
Now, the Soviets do have reactive fire, this being the 120mm mortars (these are very formidable), 82mm mortars, and 76mm guns. In 200, your recieve the 120mm FO, which I think can call in a fire mission in five minutes when in command and in 7 minutes when out of command. A good trick I have learned from JasonC is to count down the artillery of the 120mm FO by targeting a chunk of cover from turn two (if done on turn 1 it will be counted as a prep fire mission). When the shells are about to be fired, and you find you don't have a suitable target, walk the fire mission a short distance from the orginal aimpoint. If kept close enough to the original aimpoint (green line signifies this, only two minutes are added to the fire mission, so you will always have a 120mm mortar barrage only two minutes out from when it is required.
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Ok, after a short hiatus from playing this scenario (I was very pissed off from it to say the least :mad: ), I canme back to it today, played it twice, and won both time. Before this, I had just played to 200 series, and I think these scenarios greatly helped my "infantry drill" abilities. Like we have been told many times, I staggered my men's movement, and kept them spaced out, etc.
Not bunching up is critical, and long staggers between the movement of front rank and rear rank of the platoon assists in keeping the men spaced.
Men must also advance towards the MG-42; if they advance perpendicular to it, flanking fire occurrs and panics occur instatnly.
Most imporantly however, I have discovered the difference between my success and failure. This came about from what I learned from the 200 series. When moving infantry before, I was much to conservative, and not pushing them hard enough. Anyone in yellow morale I halted and my advances were only 30m. This time, i pushed my men to almost the limit. Anyone other than pinned or worse got waypoints, and advances were anywhere from 50m to 80m. Doing this, two squads reached the shell craters, and the others followed up. In my second game, I even had a broken from this pushing, but others advanced on and he rallied. I got a spot on turn 12 my first game and turn 10 my second. From here, the game snowballed and the enemy surrendered on turn 19 both times. In game 1 I had 10 casualties and in game 2 I had 8.
These may be somewhat high, but that is what happens when the men are pushed. At least they achieve something though. Perhaps other people have been to conservative with their men as well and need to push them harder. It helps a lot.
Of course, as mentioned before, a green platoon is very brittle, and sometimes this sceanrio just can't be one, as some squads may just route with a birst. However if you are aggressive enough and do the drill, I think this sceanrio can be beaten mor often than not. I found playing 200 and 201 helped a lot.
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Thanks for the excellent advice. It is interesting how fast you are able to get your main body into the rough. I will try the scenario again today if I have time, and push my men harder. Obviously, that is why I am not reaching the rough and far flag in time. For example, you said that many of your men were tired and you had some in red morale states. Also, you moved out men in yellow morale states. While I was playing, none of my main body was ever in red morale states, and most of their fatigue was Ready or Tiring. The worst I had was pinned. Thus, i am thinking I have to push my men harder, though still using the advance drill, and use my prep HE much earlier. In my game, I did in fact get spots on the MG's by the end by bounding the left half-platoon, as you said is possible. I never tried moving an ATR with them though. This I will try.
With the company advance drill, I have one question. Often, the point platoon of the main body recieves fire, and most of the squads become pinned. What should I do witht he two platoons behind them? Though in good morale states, I have been leaving my rear platoons still and hiding when this happens, as I can't advance them ahead, or else they will bunch up with the point, who won't budge. Should I continue to do this, even though it is extremely time consuming? Or should I maneuver around them, constantly switching and relieving point platoons?
Anyway, I geatly appreciate the indepth advice and will try to put it to use next time I play.
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Wow, I sure had a lot of spelling and grammatical errors in my above post. I was too tired when I wrote that.
Anyway, I was what kind of results others have had. I found that I didn't have enough time to take the last flag. I only had enough time to shoot it out with some defenders from the rough in the center of the map. Did anyone have better luck, and take the final flag? I have been wondering if my men have been advancing too slowly (reaching rough by turn 19) or if it is normal not to have enough time to assault the final objective.
Today, I played 201 twice, which is the Infantry only variant of this training scenario. The first time through, I won with a tactical victory, 67% to 33%, again not taking the last flag. It seems I am too patient with my infantry advance. I tried it a second time as well. That time, I won 75% to 25%, being a major victory. Again, I never took the final flag. I only did better that time because I incurred more casualties on the enemy, while taking fewer myself.
I was wondering how other people faired. My largest concern is not being able to take the last flag, as I always run out of time. Do others have better success? Must I handle the infantry more aggressivley? The only suppression of my troops is usually the MG-42's on the far left of the map, and, as there isn't really a way to suppress them, i don't think my use of HE is the issue slowing my infantry down. Perhaps I just need to work on infantry drills somemore?
Some small AAR's or just basic thoughts on any of the 200 series (I haven't done Mech yet) would be greatly appeciated.
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Thanks for the help.
I had a feeling it was something simple.
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I wasn't sure where to put this, and since it has to do with CMBB, I guess this is an ok location. Recently I have started to download graphic mods, some for CMMOS, and some that are standalone. The standalone ones often tell you to back up the original graphics as the new ones will replace the old ones.
I was wondering how do you back up your old files, so they can be used again if you do not wish to use the mod you downloaded, or switch between the two for various games.
Do you just copy the old files and put them in a separate folder, then install the new mod? If you want to revert back, do you zip the copied (old) files and extract them back?
Any feedback would be appreciated.
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Physim,
Now try it with the MG reoriented. You will have to change the map ownership for the German's and Soviet's. Once you make this change, I guarentee you will have troubles with the scenario, like everyone else.
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Hi.
OK, I passed scenario 200. Actually, this is the first time I finished the game. As I lack patience, the first time I tried it, I exited out on turn 10, because my infantry advance was going at only a snails pace. This time however, though things were going the same, I decided to suck it up and play the game to the finish.
To try and learn the most from this scenario, I left the setup, and thus the objectives, for my various units almost identical as the default setup. My plan was to send the company main body straight up the middle through the depression and to the rough where they could hopefully one the large, flagged wooded area with infantry fire. As with the default setup, I utilized a half-platoon on my left and right flanks. I expected my left half-platoon to just draw fire from as they advanced to the nearby greaters and rough. Other than, I expected little. I had more ambition for my right half-platoon, as LOS blocks worked int their favor. Also, I assigned a T-34 with them, considerably boosting firepower. There mission was to take the small the rough immediately ahead of them, and then the woods and house ahead of that. From there they could integrate their firepower with the company main body against the large woods.
What I did change was this. On the left, I displaced an ATR and Platoon HQ from their respective craters and put the 50mm mortars there. From my last experience, I learned they were too much in the rear to shell the PAK, so I neccessitated to move them up to take some burden of the 82mm. I moved my 120mm mortar spotter to the left rear rough as well, for he had a wide LOS from there, and could thus deliver accurate reactive fire to basically any possible german position on the map.
I moved the 1st (HQ) and 2nd T-34's immediately behind the depression with a hope to fast move them to protect them against the PAK.
Thus, to recap, my plan was to move the company main body up to the cover (and flag) in the center, and effectively melt shooters in the woods from there. My flank half-platoons, which I expected little of, were to draw fire and grab limited terrain objectives immediately infront. My T-34's were to conduct an early T-34 barrage, with 1 or 2 minute barrages on each wood tile. After being reduced to about 35 HE rounds, I would have them stop and do direct fire only. One T-34 was also assigned to silence MG's once the mortars had eliminated PAK. My Maxim MG's were assigned to halt any attempt by the enemy to reposition his troops. My 122mm FO targeted the main woods with pre-bombardment set for 15 minutes, in anticipation of my painfully slow Infantry advance. That was my force tasking.
My left and right half-platoons advanced first, hopefully to draw any fire on turn one, allowing my main body somewhat of a head-start on their advance. Essentially, things went according to plan. My first company main body platoon made the depression, though the second platoon, lead by the company HQ, was reluctant to leave cover when the MG's fired at them, and they had many cover sneak incidents along with some panics. Essentially they were probably advancing about 10m a minute, at best. They achieved this dismal rate, as though they would advance 50m on one turn, the next turn they would cover sneak and retreat back. I remained patient however, and despite the slow progress, let them sit and rally, and repeatedly retreat,though casaulties were minimal.
My T-34's baraged the map, and PAK was spotted on turn 3. Thankfully, two T-34's were out of LOS, so it only bagged the number two vehicle, though, to my dismay, this was the one with the most HE-I think it had 73 of such shells. Oh well, war is hell. I retaliated with area fire (as the PAK disappears when he takes cover) from the two 50mm's, for four or five minutes of continuous fire, and with three minutes of 82mm fire. Perhaps overkill, but the PAK had to die. Oh yeah, and on turn one, my right flank T-34 blew the hell out that peasent shack. Not sure if German's were in it, but it made me happy.
The advance continued oh so slowly. Because of this, I decided to advance the left half-platoon into the open, to draw some fire. Accidently, one squad left command radius, and eventually became routed. Fortunately, they only took 3 casualties, drew signifcant fire as their exposure rate increased rapidly, and even rallied by the endgame. This helped my main body, which advanced slightly faster.
My right flank was going superb. The T-34 blasted the near woods, which my half-platoon captured shortly after, mopping up the limited resistance from a shaken Recon Team. Meanwhile, I moved out my HQ T-34 from the depression (hoping the PAK died), fast moving it to the MG sound contacts, to silence the 42's. After two turns, the MG-42's were silence. One was eliminated, and the other was captured with one survivor. I also got lucky in finding a 8cm mortar, and the HE made short work of its crew.
My infantry made the rough in the center by turn 19, which was rather late I think. That is why I am concerned with my infantry advance drill skills still. Anyway, I arrived there with the main body, and they began to shoot up German infantry who were already shaken from two T-34's 120mm mortar fire, and the prep 122mm fire that arrived on trun 15 and lasted to trun 19 I think. My 122mm fire arrived perhaps a little to early, but his is training, so oh well.
I didn't advance anymore, but instead just shot up badguys, with rallied men, in cover, and with heavy support fire. Finally I am beginnig to see the light of these patient, atritionist attacks.
The final score was 75% to 25% in my favor. That classifies as a major victory, which I think is ok, but my tactics still need improving. I took 7 casualties, 6 from one MG, and 1 from Recon squad which was cut in half and routed by the endgame. I incurred 79 casualties on the enemy. Though battered, they still owned the flag int he woods, thanks to one squad that was only pinned. I owned a flag in the rough. Like a true attrionist however, the casualties inccured on the enemy, not the ground held, won be the game. My T-34's scored the bulk of my caualties, with infantry coming second. My artillery accounted for only eight altogether, wich is quite dismal, though I feel I picked the right targets-well, at least for my Prep.
Anyway, this was my experience on 200, and I enjoyed it greatly, despite the minor annoyances associated with advancing over open ground.
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JasonC and David Chapuis,
Are you two actually going to play an ME against each other to validate your theories? I think the results would be very interesting to see.
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Sorry I never noticed. I just skimmed through the AAR's. However, why is the MG not firing at your men behind and in the scattered trees during the approach march? The one tile of scattered trees is not an LOS block, and in my experience, with the MG reoriented, it fires at anything from turn 1 unless an LOS block ( only houses provide it on this map) is used.Yes, I changed the East side to allied. I stated it in my original post but i reckon wasn't very clear. -
I agree with JasonC. Tactically, unlike today, airpower was relatively ineffective against armor and in other CAS roles. Where airpower proved its worth, particularly later in the war, was attacking imeediately behind enemy lines, or what is called battlefield air interdiction, attacking supply lines, marshalling yards, trains and fuel dumps.
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I feeling awfully repetitive asking this on this forum, but it is necessary when someone posts an AAR.
Loeffe and Knalla, did you complete the scenario shown in your AAR's with the MG-42 reoriented. I agree, 110 is a cakewalk, especially with area fire, when the MG is facing the wrong way. But when the scenario is modified, it becomes much more difficult. I am not implying that you did in fact play the scenario without modifying, but am simply wondering.
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This scenario baffles me. I can pass it, but only by relying heavily on my T-34's. My infantry, usually are siting at the back of the map, pinned and broken, with only some advancing up to actually met the enemy, usually in a piecemeal fashion. Supposedly, when using proper infantry tactics, platoons, even if they are green, can advance thorugh MG fire. Well, this I can't accomplish. My entire company can be halted by the two MG-42's. Obviously, casualties are minimal, but I can't even advance my main effort to the depression. As soon as my platoons leave the rough area, they sideways sneak back, even if at ok morale states. Nothing gets them to push forward. Perhaps I need a commissar...
Any help or feedback of this scenario would be greatly appreciated.
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Excellent points Joachim.
I agree halftracks are superior to trucks and maybe tanks in for moving infantry.
But is CM, infantry usually move around dismounted for the entire game, and a tank's covering firepower has far more use than the paper thin armor of an HT. Mounted troops have little use, so, on a tactical level, HTs aren't that important, IMHO.
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I have tried this scenario repeatedly lately, again to no avail. It is truly PISSING ME OFF!
I use JasonC's tactics to the fullest, I think, and use the houses as LOS blocks to get close to the MG-42. However, over open ground, the platoon is much to brittle to survive anything. Entire squads panic with one burst. Only luck allows you to pass this scenario I believe.
I have tried the correct tactics so many times, but they fail. These open ground tactics may have use with regular platoons, HQ's with some bonuses, or a company, but attempting this with a green platoon is not possible.
If someone, maybe even JasonC, wants to prove me wrong and show that this scenario is consisently passable, please post and AAR and prove me wrong.
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Um, the armor on HT's is practically useless. Lets see, what can penetrate and kill them.lets see,Shrapnell,
Stray rounds ,
Troop moral, (its armor so i'm gonna be safe)
Defence in the event of accidently meeting the enemy,
and my favourite..................
..........COMMON SENSE,
the point is that every army dreamed of having enought armored halftracks to move ALL their troops, but it was never feasable
Maxim at close range
DSHK MG
M2 MG
ATR
Any anti tank gun or recoiless rifle
Infantry guns
Mortars
Demo charges
grenades
molotovs
RPG-43's
T-34
Hmmm. Long list. So what advantage to they have. None really when compared to trucks, other than better mobility and shrapnel, small arms fire (as you mentioned)
Tanks work the best for moving infantry. Their firepower substitutes for the thin armor of HT's. As JasonC mentioned, HT's have only an operational use. Tactically, they can't to anything better than a vanilla Panzer III or IV.
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If their best tactic is to be stealthy, then why put armor and MG's on them when infantry could just be loaded onto trucks or tanks that also try to be stealthy?Stealth works best - if the opponent doesn't know they are there, he won't try to kill them. Guess that's why so few were destroyed at Kursk. -
You know, when I wrote this, I had an inkling someone would say a comment like that. Few shows on military history are accurate I have found, but the footage is nice. That is why I watch. I will just ignore the infor from them for now on.You should probably stop doing that, in all seriousness and honesty, if your priority is gaining historical knowledge as opposed to simple entertainment.
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Thanks for the reply.
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During my experience in CMBB (with the help of forums), I have learned that halftracks in combat are useless other than being utilized as heavy weapon taxis in dead ground or as mobile MG posts when the enemy AT defence has been neutrilized.
However, in books I have read and shows I have watched on TV, the halftrack was the tool of the infamous Panzergrenadier, used in fast actions with tanks to storm positions. In CMBB, this is not possible, as even weak AT rifles make short work of halftracks.
So, my question is, in the real war, how were halftracks used tactically? Were they just used in the unadmirable role as portrayed in CM, or did they have more important tasks on the battlefield, other than taxing MG's, mortars and PAK's around the battlefield or mowing down an already routed squad with the 42 when the battle is already won?
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Hi
i have just spent time looking over the picture of the setup on turn 10. I notice that there is a lot of open ground in and around the factory area. When your infantry reaches the end of its cover, how do you plan on dealing with this? Since, as you have stated so many times, firepower takes ground, I assume you will shell it with direct HE from Stugs and Elephants. However, these vehicles aren't superb at building busting and they might use a lot of ammo in other 'tasks'. Then again, the enemy may not have sizable forces in the Factory area and may be based in the trench network primarly instead.
Also, how far do you intend to move your PAK up on the right side plan? If I remember correctly, lines of sight aren't great with all the trees, so the guns may have to be far up to see any counter-attack. How far do your PAK's need to see for your plan to be effective?
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Thanks for the quick replies. Since, as I suspected, the Sturmtiger has little to no combat history, my next question is about the next most powerful assault gun-the Brummbar.
From my knowledge, this assault gun was used, though successful, I am not sure. Perhaps someone can enlighten me...
In my "Kursk: The vital 24 hours" by Will Fowler, detailed drawings and descriptions of the Brummbar are given, though litte is given of its combat record, unlike the more common vehicles associated with Kursk, like the Tiger and Panther. Did the Brummbar have success? Which units employed it? Were incorporated into Model's Ninth Army, or in the south, or both?
Again, I find that this assault gun is rarely used in CM scenarios. Is this because it was uncommon, or that a designer must be careful when incorporating over-modelled HE into a scecnario? Infact, I don't even see very many Sturmhaubitze 42's around. Maybe I am playing the wrong scenarios...
Anyway, since messing around with these assault guns in QB's and homemade scenarios, I have found that assault guns are pretty attractive in CM, from the baseline Stug III to the Sturmtiger. Turreted tanks are no longer my favorite.
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In combat mission, this vehicle is exceedingly rare, so I assume few people use it in realistic scenarios or H2H games. However, while designing my own, unrealistic scenarios just to explore the capabilities of this strange assault gun, I was astounded at the firepower the 380mm gun provides. It can obliterate half a company with one round!
Here is a picture of it lofting a 380mm round.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Sturmtiger_4.jpg
Now that is just a crazy sight!
Anyway, I am wondering if this vehicle was actually used in combat. If so, how did it perform, where was it tasked, what formations used it?
Also, if one were to make a realistic scenario with the Sturmtiger, what would a realistic force composition be for it? I am just wondering for curiosity's sake.
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Nice AAR.
Just wondering, was this scenario played with the MG-42 reoriented?
I find your approach interesting. Two of your squads were not in command for a fair amount of time, and you used run instead of advance for your bounds.
Also, I notice the utilization of LOS blocks from the beginning. I'm a bit skeptical of your tactics however because in normal scenarios, the exact locatio of the shooter won't be known, and out of command green squads not behind an LOS block will be cut to ribbons.
Anyway, thanks for the AAR. It appears you have had more success than the lot of us. Congratulations.
By the way, it would great if you did a similar AAR and posted it for scenario 111 and 112, as people, myself being one of them, are interested in how one might fare with the MG positioned right. I have taken a short hiatus from the training scenarios, playing actuall games verse AI and PBEM instead. I will return to them shortly however.
How Germany could of defeated the S.U. during Barbarossa?
in Combat Mission: Barbarossa to Berlin
Posted
I haven't posted on this thread since I started it a long time ago. This does not mean that I am not interested, but that the topics being discussed were basically 'over my head' since day one. I have been reading all of the replies however.
BTW, Corvidae, those Russian Troops are a tad overcrowded. I think German HE might make a mess of them...