Wartgamer
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Posts posted by Wartgamer
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A 'circle' 30 feet wide translates to a area of 706.5 sq ft.
The vulcan fires 100 rps? So it would take ~7 seconds of firing to achieve that.
The vulcan would scatter the rounds at a certain range to achieve your 'magic' circle. The circle would be smaller closer to the firer and larger further away. Whats the range?
You calculate this yourself or are you quoting someone? In reality, the rounds would be grouped in a dispersion pattern about the center of fire.
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Is that in the Patriot Act?
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How do you know what it will cover? And the present system can model this with Campaigns.
I made about 400 bucks today. Not great but I will make about 2500 for the week. I wish I could make 5000 a week. I would have plenty of time to post even more then. Would that not just be wonderful?
And I am sharing my wealth..here's a free website you can look at.
http://www.45thdivision.org/combatload.htm
[ March 18, 2005, 03:33 PM: Message edited by: Wartgamer ]
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Are you speaking to me? Well, yes, I am wealthy. Does that matter?
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Some questions arise...
The SCR536 is AM and the SCR300 is FM. Both are on different freqs. I assume they could not talk to each other?
The SCR300 is battery operated (2 types, a large or small battery. One for CP use, one for more mobile use). There was no means to use a alternate power source? The batteries are actually battery packs, multiple voltage sources sealed together.
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The game will almost certainly have Sherman tanks. I guarantee that. And Spam. Lots of it.
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I have some links to US communications equipment that was used at this level. I would like to know if anyone has an equipment list that shows just how many of these items were issued typically during the war to a infantry company.
The Field phone
http://www.olive-drab.com/od_electronics_ee8.php
SCR536 'Handie-Talkie'
http://www.olive-drab.com/od_electronics_scr536.php
backpack radios
SCR300
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The concept of a Command Post and 'moving' it up to a new location is a battlefield reality that 'victory' assesment should take into consideration.
The 'fireteam' concept of breaking up a HQ section into its functioning parts should also be modeled for wargames at this scale. The CO fireteam, the XO 'fireteam', the Command Group (mans CP itself), 'basics' (new guys getting line-time before assignment) and even possibly the cooks/clerks further back. Runners are certainly a command and control reality, as is wire/radio and signal communications. This even applys to platoon HQ sections.
Earlier US TO&E had 'Basics' at the platoon level but they seemed to be moved up to the company level later. Much training was needed to actually get these men assigned properly. Unfortunately, later in the war, they were often fed raw into the units. Often at night. This was almost a criminal act as the old guys knew they were dangerous and would not last anyway.
US Airborne was one of the few units that did not like to take any new guys during an operation. They fought typically short engagements but even they were ground down later in the war.
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A rather long read but it time and again mentions the concept of the Company CP.
http://www.tankbooks.com/stories/seeyou1.htm
Here we see the Company Commander and XO split up and again demonstrate, like the Field Manual for platoon HQ operations, that a HQ group could be spread out and in many cases, not a unit.Things remained quiet until about 0430, when again the Krauts threw everything they had in a last desperate attempt to dislodge us from the top of the slag pile. Coming from the C.P., Capt. Regn and Lt. Lovett discovered that the enemy was attacking from our front and left flank simultaneously. Capt. Regn sent Lt. Lovett to the front to organize the situation there, while he gathered the C.P. group, runners, mortar and 4.2 observers together, and organized them on the left flank. This provisional group stopped the threat on our left, but the Heinies’ main effort was on our front. Here they attacked fiercely, yelling and screaming like Indians.This example clearly shows that the Command Post personel can and will be used, along with anyone else, to defend the company.
[ March 18, 2005, 09:35 AM: Message edited by: Wartgamer ]
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http://www.752ndtank.com/TOEdetails.html
Detailed TO&E for US Tank unit
http://www.752ndtank.com/MiscEquipment.html
Its interesting that again, we do not see ground mount tripods for 50 cals. Just for 30 cals.
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An interesting stat is that German 81mm mortar production was 1000+ a month. This could go higher especially at the end of 44.
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I am not saying that like its a bad thing, its being read that way perhaps.
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How 1:1 modeling can play into this needs to be addressed. The MG bullets, of course, can not be modeled 1:1.
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In many aspects, I believe the CW companies just acted like large platoons.
The German and US infantry companies were like small battalions.
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From that same battle.D. (1) Battalion will lay wire to all the company Command Posts with priority to Company A and Company B.(2) Radios will be silenced until 0800: current SOI in effect.
(3) Attacking companies will signal for lifting artillery fires with a red star parachute flare when their movement becomes masked.
E. (1) Battalion command Post will remain in Burmerange.
(2) Battalion Observation Post location as shown on overlay.
(3) As soon as company command Posts are established battalion is to be notified of their location.
The A Company commander planned to use the second and third platoons in the attack so he took the platoon leaders to the Cavalry Command Post in order to coordinate plans for the jump off in the morning. In the meantime the executive officer moved the company into the buildings that had been designated by the company guides. The 1st Platoon proceeded to the southeast end of town and flushed out a German patrol which had entered the houses that afternoon and had not been dislodged. The platoon then set up positions in the buildings the Germans had occupied.By 2000 the location of the Company Command Post had been reported to battalion, local security was posted, and the company settled down for the night. The company order was given at 2015 hours. The 2nd Platoon on the right was to attack southeast from Basse-Kontz and swing to the northeast upon reaching the end of Le Stromberg Hill. The 3rd Platoon on the left would move along the top and the west slope of the hill to protect the left flank of the 2nd Platoon. The 1st Platoon in support would follow the 2nd Platoon by approximately 150 yards and be prepared to give any possible assistance. The light machine gun section was to be in direct support of the 2nd Platoon an the 60 mm mortar section in general support. The Company Command Post would remain in Basse-Kontz, as would the aid station and the ammunition supply point, while the company observation post would be initially in the southeast end of town. A hot breakfast would be served at 0600 hours
[ March 17, 2005, 04:18 PM: Message edited by: Wartgamer ]
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Great. You're throwing out facts and assumptions, but there seems to be no overarching concept. Do you have an idea of what you'd like the new C2 model to do?
yes, model command and control
Do you want CPs that enhance C2 in some way?
yes
Would you then want some way for the attacker to neutralize the C2 enhancement with artillery destroying the wire net?
perhaps. is the wire strung over buried?
[ March 17, 2005, 04:15 PM: Message edited by: Wartgamer ]
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http://www.ncweb.com/~davecurry/brothers/lestromberg.html
An interesting insight given the current discussion.
Some notes:
So we see a unit in the Fall of 1944 with an overfull TO&E. Half the officers and 30% of the men are green.The company was slightly above full strength with approximately 190 enlisted men and 6 officers. Three of the officers had been with A Company since the division was activated and the remaining three were replacements who had as yet seen no combat. Of the enlisted men 30% had trained with A Company in the states while 40% were combat seasoned replacements who had seen action with other units. The remaining 30% were completely green troops who had been rushed from the states as replacements and had received the bulk of their training since joining the company. -
If buildings will have states, perhaps one of the propertys will be a CP link to a unit. Field fortifications (and I hope they are better modeled than the foxhole/trench/bunker system in use now) might also have a state.
How much of the C&C modeling will be 'virtual' and how much 'abstracted' remains to be seen.
If communications equipment is to be 1:1, then the game will be a much different beast than the present CMX1 C&C abstraction.
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How many soldiers in a Soviet Infantry Regt that has 6 120mm mortars?
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http://www.hardscrabblefarm.com/ww2/
An interesting look at how a US Army infantry platoon HQ 'element' can actually be all over the place and seperated when out of the CP during an non-defensive situation.
This is a 1943 document and clearly deals with situations that Combat Mission might model. I would say this is 'pre-SCR536' thinking by the way. The extra runner reflects that.
Notice how the LT, SGTs and runners are placed in certain situations. Not at all a unit really. They would almost be best modeled as part of a fireteam or a squad within the platoon.
So could 1:1 modeling really capture this?
[ March 17, 2005, 03:43 PM: Message edited by: Wartgamer ]
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It really is what it has been described as; A Command & Control issue. That really is my interest that you can be sure of.
I suppose the designer also realizes it.
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I think you have pointed out the heart of my particular question. I am concerned with the Command Group, which I believe is a small group of officers and NCOs with a couple of radios and some maps, that it is fairly mobile, at least on foot, and that this Command Group is what is intended to be represented by CMx1 Company HQ units. The Command Post is not included in the game by default becuase it is not supposed to be near any fighting, but it can be represented easily using the editor.Originally posted by dalem:</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by RMC:
We're actually throwing terms around loosely here. The CP is a a facility of some sort; a foxhole, tent, bunker, what have you. We should be talking about the Command Group not CPs. The command group is small and not the horde of people listed in that MTO&E.
Does that make sense? Am I wrong in whole or in part?
-dale </font>
US Infantry Company 1:1
in Combat Mission: Afrika Korps
Posted
I think maybe you've finally revealed your true understanding of this subject. </font>