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DesertFox

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    How Hot is Ukraine Gonna Get?

    in Combat Mission Black Sea

    Posted

    2 minutes ago, poesel said:

    This is also an upgraded version from the Netherlands, which has a better radar:

     

    Yep, thats why the US make the deal with Jordan. "Gepard Deluxe" so to speak or Cheetah CA3. I had the pleasure to climb over one in Todendorf when we were with our Leos in Putlos some 30 years ago. Do we have any hint how many vehicles Jordan has for sale?

    0

    How Hot is Ukraine Gonna Get?

    in Combat Mission Black Sea

    Posted

    Gepard is a special beast, very well liked all around it seems...Who would have thought of that? It went into retirement 2012.

    Global Military Products Inc,* Tampa, Florida, was awarded an $118,375,740 firm-fixed-price contract for the purchase and delivery of Gepard 35 mm air defense systems. Bids were solicited via the internet with one received. Work will be performed in Amman, Jordan, with an estimated completion date of May 30, 2024. Fiscal 2010 Foreign Military Sales (Ukraine Security Assistance Initiative) funds in the amount of $118,375,740 were obligated at the time of the award. Army Contracting Command, Newark, New Jersey, is the contracting activity (W15QKN-23-C-0012). 

    > U.S. Department of Defense > Contract

     

     

    2

    How Hot is Ukraine Gonna Get?

    in Combat Mission Black Sea

    Posted

    16 minutes ago, Butschi said:

    The main goal of some (I mentioned Hamburg) bombing raids was explicitly to kill civilians, so I can't really see how that was collateral damage.

    It was by the standards of the time. We need to understand that at the time back then when the Area Bombing Directive (General Directive No.5 (S.46368/D.C.A.S) was issued, industrial workforce and their morale was considered a legitimate target.

    For the directive see here for a start:

    Area bombing directive - Wikipedia

    ef the new bombing directive: I suppose it is clear the aiming points will be the built up areas, and not, for instance, the dockyards or aircraft factories where these are mentioned in Appendix A. This must be made quite clear if it is not already understood.

    It goes basically back to the Trenchard doctrine of 1928.

    This bombing directive was already controversial back then, but legally not considered a war crime. It took until 1949 (Geneva Conventions - Wikipedia) and 1977 (Protocol II - Wikipedia) to finally fix this.

    So, there you have it.

    1

    How Hot is Ukraine Gonna Get?

    in Combat Mission Black Sea

    Posted

    8 minutes ago, Butschi said:

    You can justify aspects of that bombing campaign, e.g. the actual damage to the German industry and infrastructure. But a blanket "they deserved"? How exactly did the thousands of children who died in the Hamburg raid deserve what they got? And that was not collateral damage, the bombs were dropped deliberately in a way to maximize fires spreading in Hamburg.

    Let's tread a little more carefully on this topic, shall we? Even 80 years after this is still a sensitive area that can quickly get inflammatory.

    We can easily agree to disagree. A nation which is responsible for killing 6 Mio civilians in Poland alone, not to mention Belorussia, Ukraine and the rest of Europe and deliberately supported the regime with using slave workers everywhere for everyone to see until 1945 has no right to moan about 600k civilian casualties due to collateral damage by the allied strategic bombing campaign. They got what they deserved. They started it, they had to carry the consequences.

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