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Lawngnome, did you happen to play Asherons Call or DAOC beta under that name?

I played this demo scenario with a friend, TC/IP. First mistake I made was not spending enough time REALLY looking at the contours of the map. In the end that came back to bite me painfully on the ass. I think the key to this map for the Germans is the ridge on your left that flattens out near the road. This gives you cover against any armor the American player may have near the center of the map or oasis. In my game this was the avenue of attack I eventually chose, however it came a little too late. I had squandered some of my armor attempting to shoot it out from various positions. Some forward, in which they were heavily out gunned numbers wise and some from back on the first ridge. I never recieved any marders just 3 platoons of pzIII's forget the exact make, but they were all inferior to the Grants and Shermans at all ranges ;p In anycase, I bumrushed him with all my armor around that ridge hoping to roll his flank and then go from there. Needless to say it failed and if it wasnt for a heroic effort by my last 3 panzers it would have been a massacre. Thanks to their brave last stand, in the end all my opponant had left was 2 shermans and some of his infantry. The battle actually came down to one last flanking attempt by a sherman. He rushed it over top of the ridglet getting side turret shots on my remaining 2 panzers. I anticipated this, and ran 4 or 5 squads to TRY and cut it off. My first squad to reach the sherman knocked it out, but it came 20 seconds too late. The sherman had killed one of my remaining panzers and immobalized the other which was attempting to reverse away presenting a side shot to the 2 shermans near the stone wall in the center of the map ;p Dto the constraints of the map, further advance by my infantry would have been pointless and I surrendered saving the time his inevitable and unstoppable mop up would have taken ;p I took HEAVY infantry loses trying to cross the ridge on my right side, I sent one platoon over the top there hoping to get them down into some cover there, but my opponant deployed minimum one infantry platoon and an ATG well forward there and he cut them to pieces before they could get under cover. Most of my MG's were decimated the moment I tried to sneak them into any prime firing position thanks in part im sure to how far forward he deployed on my right flank. I sent one platoon up the wadi, and the balance on my left behind my advancing armors dust screen. My consolation was that my wadi platoon eventually wiped out his left forward deployment but it didnt really save the day ;p I think the battle would have been different had I gotten a platoon of marders but beggers can't be choosers I was just happy I got some armor to run that gauntlet ;p All in all it was very fun, and im looking forward to see how the conclusion to this AAR turns out ;p

Its called a Fascii (spelling may be incorrect) as a previous poster stated. Its a bundle of rods tied together with an axe head. The theory behind it is that many thin rods together have more strength than one big piece of wood. I believe it was also a symbol of fascism in italy. It dates back to roman times if im not mistaken.

Canadians speak either Rapid Fire, BC does this. Hoser, Alberta does that. Or Newfie, and who the heck knows they they are talking about ;p

Quick question. Were actual canadians used for the recordings or did we get Americans trying to be Canadians. I know the thought of Americans *trying* to be Canadian is rather absurd, but im having nightmares regarding Texans and Bob and Doug mckenzie. "Hey y'all, how boot we all go oot and get some beer eh!" /shudder

Im not going to "pretend" to be a grog, my interest in ww2 is probably no less than any true "grogs" but im just a youngin and havent had the decades to absorb the info these real "grogs" have /wink ;p That said, I think it is fairly obvious that the fighting carried out by some divisions or nations was done so at a more fanatical/desperate level. The Hitler Jugend SS division in and around Caen, anyone who cares to refute that these were totally indoctrinated nut cases willing to follow any order the Fuhrer gave them would have a hard time convincing me. This follows a progression to the Japanese people. Japanese culture in that time period is about as alien to westerners as you can get. They were born and raised to obey their emperor. Now obviously not every japanese soldier you ran into was wild eyed, just looking for a platoon of GIs to bonzai into. However when your entire life has been based around discipline and conformity, when you're told to jump, 9 out of 10 will probably say how high. Now if we extrapolate this into the circumstances in the Imperial Army. I think you will find that the average japanese soldier is going to be more willing to fight to the death in a hopeless situation in any effort to kill another GI, than in any other theater. I think its fairly reasonable to suggest that the infantry fighting in the PTO was more viscious, lets not confuse viscious with lethal. A bullet in Iwo Jima or Okinawa had just as much ability to kill the heck out of you as a bullet in any other theater. I think visciousness in this case was the intent behind those bullets, the reluctance to surrender in hopeless situations, and the willingness to throw your life away needlessly. Was the fighting any harder? Probably not. The fighting just went to further limits. The japanese were just less likely to surrender than anyone else. Desperation can make men or women wildly unpredictable. They can and will do incredibly brave and stupid things in an act of desperation.

One of Rommels short comings, seemed to be a sort of tunnel-vision like focus on one thing at a time. Part of his failure, but ultimate success in crusader was because of this. He was so focused on reducing Tobruk, he utterly refused any chance of a counter attack. During the initial stages of the attack, he ignored all intelligence stating it was underway. This apparently confused the bejesus out of the British, and they were lured into a killing zone, where they threw their superior numbers against Cruwell I think it was piecemeal. Cruwell (I think) ended up smashing the British armor, then Rommel took all the credit when he had little to do with it ;p My personal opinion on Rommel was, he may have had some manic-depressive tendencies. One of my aunts and her daughter both have extreme cases of it, and from my readings on Rommel, he seems to display some of these characteristics. He has extreme highs, and extreme lows. He also really has no "staying" power. If the enemy didnt roll over almost immediatly, he tended to throw his hands up in the air and go sulk somewhere ;p When the going was good, he overstated things, when it was bad, he made it sound totally hopeless. I wasn't aware of David Irvings political views, however, I found "The trail of the Fox" to be probably the most insightful look into Rommels character of all the books i've read on him. Despite how ignorant and clueless the guy may be regarding the the concentration camps and Hitlers involvement. I still feel that "The Trail of the Fox" is an excellent book on Rommel. I've read some books that dish out mucho love to Rommel, and most of it is hero worship. This one isn't, it deals with the darkside of Rommel as well as the bright side. It seems to be fairly even handed in its treatment.

I think some people are forgetting a few very basic things. The state of the German military in 44 and 45 was a result of fighting the Soviets. The German military in 44 and 45 was a shadow of its former self. Strategic bombing, for all intents and purposes was little more than a terror tactics, and a way to exact some revenge. It is well documented that Germany production went up each year during the war, despite the exponential increase in sorties flown against her industry. Yes, for the critical thinker there are some other reasons for this increase, but the fact remains, it was largely spay and pray. Lend-Lease. Did it help the Ruskies? Sure it did, but I don't think it helped to the extent some people here would like to think. In the end it still came down to the heroic efforts of the Soviet soldier. Regardless if his belly was full of spam, or if it was full of goolash. Many parts of the western front were used as R&R for units devasted in the eastern front. The west faced the Germans in their prime only a few times. I don't know if you could consider the "one hand tied behind my back" routine in North Africa, German prime. Im hard pressed to think of any point that the WA's were able to handle an equal german force before the eastern meat grinder started grinding up brautwurst ;p

A large portion of those survivors died on their marches to Siberia. Many of the casualties were freezing to death, or regular soldiers indiscriminately firing into the German columns as they passed by their posts. Stalin has strictly forbidden inhumane treatment of the survivors if I remember correctly, but this was one of those few situations where things were let slide. I believe the Italians and Romanians that marched off into captivity had it much worse on their marches than the Germans. Anyone who stumbled, fell down or fell behind was executed. I also believe they marched the entire way to whatever prison camp they were interned at. Soviet peasents took their toll on the Germans as well, often stripping them of any and all warm clothing or impliments with which they could create a fire. I believe, after several hundred miles of marching, Stalin discovered what was happening and ordered the immediate halt of the forced marches. His standing orders were then to have the Germans prisoners transported by train, or by vehicle. Those who got the trains I don't think were much better off than when they were forced marching. Food provided was limited at best, and men in the overpacked cars often fought to the death for any food provided. Details on these events are sketchy from what ive seen, because they were from the first hand experience of a survivor, who had no clue what was actually happening. He related that it seemed like the Soviets drove the trains around for a few days, slide open the doors threw in food and water and hauled out the dead. Once in the labor camps, I don't know if inhumane treatment was the leading cause of death, or a combination of exhaustion and the lost will to live. They had extremely difficult labor, and worked I believe 16-18 hours a day, 7 days a week. Needless to say, conditions as well as the Soviets took their toll on the Germans. It actually seems very likely that this fellow would have claimed the Soviets treated him well. As I understand it, the Soviets tried to turn any and every Soldier they could against the fascist nazi government, those that did embrace the communists, were treated much better than those that refused. It would probably be interesting to see the number of survivors that did denounce the Nazis and turn to communism in those dark days.

Well, look at it like this. I don't have any exact figures at the moment, but if memory serves correctly, the Soviets had around 5 million soldiers operating at the end of the European theater(peak was somewhere between 7 and 9 if memory serves). The Allies had a paultry 70 or so Divisions (Germany invaded the USSR with 230 I think, of course this does not account for difference in divisional setups between nations, but still that is a HUGE man power difference), and that was really it. They had limited reserves in Britain, and for the US to prepare for a second invasion, would take probably in the neighborhood of 1-2 years. The British and the Canadians had spent their proverbial wad, there was nothing left for them to throw into the war effort. Canada was a country of what, 18 million or so? They had about 1.5 million in their services, most of which were assigned to non combat roles. Towards the end of the war, the Canadians were having problems getting replacements because there just were none to be found. I wont speak for the British because being that I am Canadian, and really can't remember the size of the British Isles at the time ;p The Soviet doctrine was essentially, blow them to bits with a massive head on attack that they can't possibly withstand. Even with all their problems, I firmly believe that is exactly what they would have done to the Allies. Despite the problems they would have had against allied air power. On the topic of air power, one thing that has to be considered is, the Luftwaffe was worn down over the period of several years. Against the Soviets they would not be facing token resistance, they would have been facing a very determined foe. A foe who had not been battered nearly to extinction by the constant onslaught of several years. I think you would have seen ultimately the Allies take superiority of the skies, but at a cost that would have compromised their ability to cripple the Soviet land forces to the extent they did to the Germans. The Allies would have been able to replace losses quickly, but the question remains, what kind of damage could the massive Red Army do to the much smaller allied forces in these periods? Someone mentioned that, even if the Allies got thrown out of Europe they would probably be back. This is where I just dont think it would have been feasible. We would have been talking about essentially the entire western armies marching off to Siberia. I don't see a second Dunkirk being successful unless the Allies saw the writing on the walls, left some forces as a rear guard and got the heck out of dodge so they could get the majority of their forces withdrawn. However, one must understand the implications of losing such a force. The British wouldnt have the manpower of appropriate age to partake in another invasion for another 5-10 years. The Canadians certainly would not. Only the Americans had a large enough pool of able bodied men to really mount another serious attempt at the liberation of Europe, but the question that must be asked is would they? I think what we are running into now in this discussion is likely the same questions the Allied and Soviet commanders ran into. The best the Allies could really hope for arrayed against such a massive force (despite its severely weakened state) was a stalemate. The Soviets probably looked at the situation and felt that with the Americans having the A-Bomb, any offensive into Europe now would be ultimately too risky to explore ;p The costs far out weighed the possible gains, and in the end that is why it never happened.

I've been a lurker here for awhile, but I just can't resist a good hypothetical discussion ;p In my opinion, it is a rather complex issue. Rumors were abound that the Soviets were "spent" however, I think you have to be cautious when you interpret "spent". In this war, I don't think you can count on the Canadians or the Brits for any serious extra input in terms of manpower. The Commonwealth was already stretching the limit just meeting its requirements for D-Day. I think it would have come down to one thing really, the Soviets vastly outnumbered the allies in terms of raw manpower. Add to that the Soviet armies were forged in the most ruthless fighting of the war, they were used to an entirely different level of hardship and fighting that the Allies for all intents and purposes were never exposed to luckily. It is my personal opinion that the Allies would have been thrown out of Europe rather promptly and that would have ended the entire war there. The civilian outcry at losing such a massive force against a one time "ally" probably would put the breaks on any future endeavors. There are other intangables, such as nukes, but I really feel that despite the use of nukes, the Soviets were absolutely resolved at this point in their history to not give up, especially after coming so close to utter defeat and rally back to win through. If the allies managed to somehow hang on in Europe, and prolong the war, I think then, and only then would the allies have a chance. However that would have entailed the US entering a state of total war, in which every able bodied man aside from Farmers was conscripted and packed off to europe wholesale. Only then would I believe the allies would have had the men on the ground to batter back the "spent" Soviets ;p I just feel that, the Soviets had been through so much, to let a miniscule force compared to what they had take ultimate salvation away from them.