GreenAsJade

I agree. I ran a test on this same map with a JgPz parked where Bil parked his, looking at an ATG where I parked mine, and I got sick of hitting go before they spotted each other! One could say that Bil has been lucky with his spotting, but you make your luck. Put eyes in the right places and the spotting will come. My impression remains that the grass is providing more concealment that feels natural, but it's easy to form that impression when you're on the receiving end of some bad luck in that respect - I have no real complaints about the grass. I do think that ATGs should be able to be 1) Camoed and 2) Emplaced. Without at least one of these two things, I won't be using them again through choice. Although it's clear that it _can_ be hard to spot an ATG (based on my test), it is not reliable enough that it _well be_ hard to spot them when you need it to be. GaJ

On the topic of "Your opponent can see everything", I agree with c3k that if it were making a statement about what Bil can really see, it would be way over the line. So I assumed that this isn't what the poster was meaning, he meant what I am already feeling: It *seems as if* my opponent can see everything. He's shooting at guns that are hidden, and finding my defenders (eg that sniper on the centre left) with ease. So let's consider FOW not breached.... GaJ

Movie 31, 0:40-0:39 At this point, Bil has secured his entry to the right flank, and presumably is clearing up over behind The Spur. Next, I can anticipate him pushing along the right West Ridge, under the overwatch from the Left Tit ridge. That overwatch has created a denied zone on the central right ridge, where I was hoping to be able to deal with the right flank. I combed that whole area for somewhere to go to harrass the Right Flank attackers, but it all looks like this: The only possible area for firing upon the right flank is well forwards, where my centre-right mid-line is: So I'm going to zip forwards the M10 that's been waiting in SMI and see if that can make Bil's life a little harder on the right. The alternative to this was basically the waiting game - wait for him to push along through the right spur, encounter and deal with the modest defense there, then have him at Tame already, without any pressure on the left. If the M10 can actually pose a threat from further forwards, Bil will have to look at pulling armour forwards in the centre, where I have bazookas, ATG, and the last M10 ... GaJ

Movie 30, 0:41-0:40 Unfortunately, my right-centre defence has not worked. The as-yet-unfired ATG was taken out this turn by mortar fire. The HMG bunker failed to spot any units as they moved across the approach it was covering up to Hill 109. So - I am back to the line where my units are shielded from the Tits behind Hill 126. At this point, there is an HMG and the AAHT waiting. I also have an M10 carefully making it's way in this direction. On the left, my guys bugged out from Sunken Road juuuust in time. I lost a man from each squad to mortar fire, but didn't loose my Tommy guns I've lost sight of Bil's centre-right approach. It may be that they are worried about the ATG on my right, which fired at the Elefant earlier on, and thus waiting till Hill 126 is taken. That's fine with me! It looks like I'll be defending the left approach valley, and the right flank, in the coming few turns... GaJ

I just don't see this. How will a 57mm fair against the Elefant, Brummbar or JgPz... of which Bil could have brought far more? I'm not sure they're even that great against the PzIVh, though if they hide well, then side shots would have been more possible. It's easy to say that 57mms would have been a better choice against what Bil _has_ brought, but not so easy against what he _might have_... GaJ

Movie 29, 0:42-0:41 Just a brief report this turn - not a lot _to_ report. Bil is mopping up behind Hil 109 - I couldn't bug those guys out in time. He is also committing more HTs to this flank. My last remaining "unspotted" ATG took aim at these (despite having a cover armour arc on: note to self: HT's trigger these!) but didn't get a lock on any before they passed behind trees again. I say "unspotted" in quotes for a good reason: I discovered it is not unspotted. Mortar fire started falling near it this turn - smoke. I think we're all unanimous at this point that if there was one thing I should have done different, it is not bring ATGs. On the left flank I started bugging the men out last turn from Sunken Road. They might not make it in time: my Sniper got whacked, so the troops must be really close by, though I can't see or hear them. They've done their watch-and-harras now... it would be best if I can get them back over into the left approach valley, where they can fight with overwatch.... GaJ

Thanks for your support Sequoia - sorry not everyone felt the same way. If there's ever anything "stuck" in my sites (IE that was the only place it exists, can't get it anymore) I'll do my utmost to get it back. All the data is still there, the site just isn't operating. Erwin: that date wierd thing is still happening eh? I will take a look after the CMFI AAR finishes - maybe you could remind me ! GaJ

I decided that I will not be doing that, because it was not being used by the CMSF community. That is to say: mods were being consistently uploaded at the BFC repository and not to CMMODS. Only a scattering made it to CMMODS, which is a vicious negative circle. When it came time that the site needed to be upgraded (effort on my part) due to ISP environment changes, I wasn't motivated to do it. Cheers, GaJ

As I said, that implication is a fantasy: there was no "exchange" of Elefant for AAHT. Each were simply specified equipment that we had to bring, for demonstration purposes, not for arms balance or advantage seeking. Actually, Bil was very generous in coming with combined arms in the way that he did. Which is entirely in the spirit of the game: it wouldn't have been much more entertaining than the Xylophone scenario if Bil had come with an army of Elefants ... which he could have done. Of course ... it was still tough not knowing in advance what the force mix would be GaJ

The AAHT is in this area to block off HT/foot soldier advance. Unfortunately it can't proceed any further forwards due to coming into LOS of the Tits. So I have to wait for Bil to finish making himself comfortable at Hill 109 then hope to give him pause when he tries to come further. He is bringing up his PzIVH support. They are approaching the area where in theory the remaining un-fired ATG can deal with them. I have unhidden that guy this turn and given it a covered armour arc in that area. The Elefant and co that took out the Tame M10 has completel command of Tame itself. This is the typical view from anywhere in Tame: GaJ

Movie 28, 0:43-0:42 Not a lot to report this turn. Bil ran an HT and some footsoldiers over behind Hill 109. The HMG bunker that was set up to cover this approach can't see them:

The first AAR was not negotiated, FWIW. It was stipulated by BFC as part of the way they wanted it run. For the second one, they said that there had to be an AAHT and an Elefant. It's quite amusing to see the fantasies that can be dreamed up in the absence of the facts While setting up each game, the focus was more on "what would be a good demonstration" than "negotiation of a winnable position". GaJ

Interesting, isn't it, that negotiation is now a skill that's needed for CM (at least if you want to play QBs). The way that WynterGreen phrased his point about planning implies that he thinks that negotiating the terms of the engagement is as much a part of war and gaming as planning is. I don't agree with that. In most games, and most wars, the commanders don't negotiate the terms of the battle... GaJ

Yes. But I'm not the sort of person who wants to be tied up in pregame negotiation. That's why I miss the old system. Plus, in this instance (AAR game) we just needed to get on with it... GaJ

I don't want to focus too much on the LOS/LOF effects of the Tame M10 loss. The fact of the matter is that I knew Bill knew it was in that area, so the right thing to do was move it away from that area. The reason it is dead is because I didn't do that. My postmortem above was really just to share with you why I had a false sense of security about where I had it located: I thought I had a tough-to-crack keyhole ... but no. Bill and I did talk about increasing the force size. I was put off from that idea by the sheer volume of enormous tanks that this would have afforded Bil if he went all-armour. This is the point I was alluding to earlier about CMx2 QBs. In the absence of enforced force-mix ratios, the defender's job is very tough. In fact, I suspect that many-a-QB is now won or lost in the pre-game negotiation about which map, where the VLs are and what agreements there are about force mix etc.... GaJ

In fairness to Bil, he knew I was in the vicinity and started pointing big guns into the area. In retrospect, it would have been wiser to vacate entirely...

By way of postmortem analysis (IE WFT????!!) , I selected a different M10 and put a waypoint at this dead guy. Here is what the view looks like from the turret, looking in the direction of the incoming shell... If we plot LOS from there, everything is red, blocked, except... Taking away the trees... An Elefant at 1.2km.

Actually, you're right. An all-inf bazooka style defence could have been awesome, and probably quite a surprise. But that's an easy one in hindsight isn't it? I can't say that the idea of "bring no 76mm guns to a battle with Brumbars, Elefants and the like" was high on my list of options! Anyhow... Movie 27, 0:44-0:43 As you may already know: my tank in Tame was hit by a first-shot-kill from the Elefant, which crested a ridge leading down from Left Tit... This turn, I pushed that tank about halfway back towards the bunker, giving it what appeared to be a keyholed view of the approach on Hill 109, well back from where the PzIVhs were getting a view near the bunker. Boom! As soon as he arrived there, he was dead.

Ahem. It's a bad time to be asking me that question right now, I'm afraid ... I just watched a movie where my second anti-tank asset is blown up with out firing a shot. However, I think that any honest appraisal of the scenario we're playing would have to think that the defender has a pretty tough task, from the outset. This is significantly (IMHO) a facet of the CMx2 QB system, and one that only really struck home to me _after_ I suggested that I defend. However, I set out to do the best I could with what I had. I do think that ATGs are pretty much a waste. If you can't set them up concealed and/or fortified, they just don't work the way they should. Another time I'd have just spent the money on tanks. Snipers are also a waste - that small amount of points would have been better spent on tommy-gun-wielding scouts. That's about the only deltas I can think of that I'd have made. When I first looked at the map I had all sorts of thoughts about mines & wire, and interlocking fields of fire from MGs, artillery for kill zones etc etc. But these evaporated when I saw how little points there were to cover the large area. I'd love to hear about what would have been a different strategy to defend this large highly-visible-to-the-attacker area! GaJ

BTW, the shelling near my rear left M10 continued for a couple more shells, then stopped. At least I know now where Bil's artillery reach is. Overall... Having that Brummbar move right to the back is another blow. You won't be able to tell from photos, but the ground actually has a high point, highest point, right where that sound contact is. I noticed this while reassessing the Hill 130 LOS, and just hoped that Bil would move everything forwards and not use that spot. If there's a unit there, it makes backfield on the left for me (Santa Maria Infante) manouever even harder... GaJ

Over in Tame, Bil continued shelling nearby my M10 location, putting smoke on the upwind side (in a spot I might well have moved to) By the end of the turn, the wind has taken the smoke away. I moved the M10 back to give myself choices about where to go next... now I just have to decide

Interestingly, I also opened fire with the AAHT on the spot where the first group had their casualties last turn. I know there was at least one man not hit previously, there ... ... but I think that the bursts are too close/tight to be really good for recon-by-fire. There are heaps of them (hard to capture in a single photo), but they all go in about the same place. I certainly didn't hear any screaming from that part of the field, or see any red crosses this turn. That's not going to stop me opening fire on where the bastards are that took out my Tommy scouts, this turn... Oh - and how about that? These guys can be seen standing up in the field, firing at my Tommy-scouts in the pictures above. The AAHT has a clear sight to this area, but can't see them yet, even as they are firing.... damn hard defending against something you can't see! I think the image of the LMG guy prone and firing shows why it should be impossible to spot guys lying down in a field: you can't even see him in the photo. What do you all think about the visibility of the guy who's standing up? Immediately after that photo was taken, he remains standing up and opens fire. The wheat seems to be about up to his chest. Maybe at 6-700m, an observer would need more time and more men to be popping up to really spot them. I'm not sure about that, but I am sure that my plan to cover this approach route from the West Ridge, with the HMG, AAHT and mortar, is looking increasingly hard!

Movie 26, 0:45-0:44 My brave Tommy bearers got wiped out by a grenade this turn, as the upper group of ghosts emerged out of the wheat...

LOL.

It's comments like these that result in less being shared about when something will be out - because of the bitching and moaning when it doesn't work out that way. You only have yourself to blame... GaJ