GreenAsJade

I'm not falling for the ole "Kubelwagon baits the M16" trick, no sir!!

I think I'll take the first cas, for sure: the ATG, unless one of my mortar or MMG rounds hits a soldier giving me that honor before his Brummbar fires. Unlikely. The ATG has not yet spotted the Brummbar (they are too busy cowering I think)... I'm sure they have LOS if they pop their heads up. I'm not counting on that happening though. I suggested to them that they might like to pop smoke, which if it happened might give them enough time to rally to shoot back, and stop the Brummbar from firing the area fire it's certainly being told to. But I suspect the Brummbar will fire before they can do anything... This reminds me of an important lesson that I learn often but always seem to ignore in the next battle: NEVER EXPERIMENT "In hopes of luck". This is exactly what that ATG up there facing forwards is: an experiment hoping for a lucky break. War doesn't deliver those on demand, unfortunately. As I was setting up, I let discipline slip for a moment and decided to take a chance. Bzzzt - he's dead. If you hear yourself saying "I'll take a chance with this one"... slap yourself GaJ

Hey, this is the encourage and cheer or jab and jeer GaJ thread, not the "argue about game design" thread!! I can see we're quickly going to have to get some blowing up happening, before you guys go far off into the weeds

I guess you might be wondering what happened to that ATG also Well, the JgPz backed away and was replaced by a Brummbar - which I guess will area fire this turn. Of course, both snipers in the vicinity can see this guy. He's a bit further towards the centre, exposing his head just a little. The right wing sniper still doesn't have a shot: The centre sniper is still just below the outcrop he was heading over towards. From the top of there, he has a long-shot: GaJ

Scenario designers can achieve this with reinforcement timing, to a certain extent. Huzzar is a great example. Of course, you can't put TRPs after the recce, but you certainly experience the recce phase and make plans based on it. GaJ

Back at the main game, in the centre, I still don't see any infantry on Left Tit! Instead, an HT popped it's head over the ridgeline, spotted by my MMG laying down fire near the barbed wire: The HT retreated again ... more as if it had been given shoot and scoot orders than as if it were running away scared of my guys (it's retreat didn't coincide with any burst of fire, and I don't think the fire even went near it). Since I know that those HTs were carrying men, it's a given that they are up there somewhere. With Bil still tentatively exploring this side of the Tit, it seems this part of my plan is doing it's main job - chewing up his time, while delivering intel on where his forces are, without needlessly losing men defending the indefensible. As someone reminded me early in the AAR: he who defends everything defends nothing. So I'm successfully not defending something, yay As to the intel - where are his forces: well, the the answer seems to be "mostly coming up the middle, not anywhere else", at least in the main. Which seems eminently sensible, since Bil can choose which side of the centre-ridge to go up with all his forces, and have me able to counter them with only one side of mine. Thank goodness for the mobility of the M10s and M16. I had also hoped to inflict a small bit of damage as Bil took the Tits... this is something I'm yet to achieve. It seems to me that Bil really has to explore around this side of the Left Tit... he can't leave it uncertain whether I'm there or not. Therefore, I'm going to lay down a bit more fire, and also have the sniper-below-the-ridge pop his head up and take a look. Who knows, if Bil has men hiding in the grass, taking cover from the MMG, then I might get the jump on them. And even if I don't, then I'll know for sure. The lack of men on Left Tit may also mean that Bil concluded that it is basically unoccupied, and turned his attention to Right Tit, where he already fired on the Sniper. So I'm going to direct the mortar harrasment over that way. I can see (hear) that HTs have moved up there, so once again: where HTs are, surely men are too.

First let me touch on one of the ongoing mysteries, that's off to the side so to speak - another shell landed in the rear-midfield... ... this one landed in almost exactly the same place as the previous one, un-characteristic of spotting rounds. Last turn I thought Bil was spotting for the hil behind, but now I'm not so sure. Maybe he is prep-harrassing this mid-field area that is in the ideal position for defending forces that come left of centre into my midfield. Only time will tell.

I had done some tests before the game, and had ATGs not spotted after a couple of shots, let alone just sitting there. But what I hadn't done is had the tank under test just sit and watch for a few turns. I guess this is the conditions under which they spot well. It's a shame I didn't put the ATG on Right Tit, in anticipation of the obvious tank-in-overwatch on Hill 130 like that. But, as I've said a few times, hindsight is easy. I was actually expecting Right Tit to be overrun _before_ any tanks started watching further from Hill 130. The only thing I would have done differently so far is test an ATG against a reverse sloped JgPz to see if it would actually punch a hole. I was going by past (long past) experience with Hetzers, that look a lot lie JgPzs, and shrug frontal shells of that sloped armour like they're just bullets... GaJ

As I said ... easy to say in hindsight If I'd known I'd get spotted so easily, I certainly would have taken the shot instead of waiting for a better chance. C'est la guerre.

Other mysteries include artillery shells in strange places - a big explosion landed far from anything on the right flank, and a smaller smoke bomb landed right next to a startled mortar team... GaJ

Well, as I predicted, the honeymoon is over. Regrettably, the JgPz spotted my ATG on the spur. I guess the grass is concealing inf well, but the bushes not concealing guns so much... Damn, eh? I doubt whether they will rally to return fire before getting blown up. Bil gets the jump on me. He's also continuing to elude and mystefy me. I can't believe for a moment that he's not on Left Tit now, yet I still can't see anything from my Right Flank viewpoint, and I can't hear anything from the nearby sniper team. What it looks like to me: Those are almost certainly the HTs that I have sound contacts on, which must surely mean his troops are going in the directions of the arrows. Yet, my MMG and mortar off on the right flank see nothing: I'm starting to think that the grass may be working in Bil's favour in this instance ... surely he is there, and if he is, surely he is going around the wire. So - I'm going to send a welcome from the Mortars Maybe it will take return fire to flush out who's up there. The MMGs will keep watching, waiting.

Wow, it looks like Bil did get a contact on my snipers at Right Tit! I guess the MG fire was coming from the Brummbar, which unleashed a shell aimed right where they were sitting. I think it must have been fired last turn, actually - it arrived in the first second of the turn, and no-more followed. Those are a couple of happy chappies rushing away comparatively unscathed! It looks like light armour arrived at Left Tit this turn. Did Bil bring small tanks as well, that I didn't spot, or is this one of the HT's I wonder? Right now Bil must be finding out there's no-one at home. I wonder if he really thought I was defending those death traps, or just being appropriately careful? Anyhow, I suspect the honeymoon with this game will be over soon It looks like Bil's main attack is going to be based from the centre, rather than a flank attack from either side. I think that the recon on the flanks is purely to figure out what threats are facing his centre force, rather than signalling a possible alternative line of attack. I'm tweaking with the midfield positioning to anticipate this a little: I need less cover on my left flank for example, if combined arms aren't coming around there. I really hope I can disuade the right flank recon. The handful of guns positioned on the right flank are all that's stopping Bil from rushing up the right hand side of the centre ridge, out of view of my left midfield forces. Frustratingly, although I have at least 5 pairs of eyes, including 3 binoculars, facing that way, the KW driver-scout on my right hand side has completely disappeared. GaJ

Yes, on the left it's showing .45cal, which is the crew's ammo. I've also been doing some Elefant testing. I might keen the results of that to myself . GaJ

About 5000 rounds, fired at about 15-20 rounds per second (they fire in bursts then pause then another burst). FWIW, the rounds are shown in 2 rows, one showing how many are remaining in the current bunch of thousand, and the other showing how many more bunches of thousand are left. Maybe they come in boxes of 1000. Or maybe the ammo counter can only show 3 digits GaJ

Those guys who were saying the shot is too long for the Sniper to take: you are right. In fact, he declined to try. And... good news for me... he made it down away from Right Tit unscathed. Just in time, too, it seems, because something started putting MG fire into the location right where he was sitting! I got no contact at all about where that was coming from - just bullets whooshing into the grass around the sniper dudes as they bugged out. This turn they are going to move over a bit further into the valley and perch on a rocky outcrop - close to the JgPz if it moves at all to expose the TC, and closer in general to anything nasty happening in that valley ... and away from the attack on Right Tit. That attack, by the way, is apparently continuing by the sounds I hear, but I continue to have no contacts at all about what is happening. I thought I had better eyes to the road leading up to the Tits than this - LOS is such a fickle thing! The only other interesting things I saw were that on my right flank, the KW driver jumped out, apparently to scout on foot: I was impressed by how instantly he disappeared as soon as he crawled into the grass - it looks like that grass really is offering concealement as good as it appears. On the left flank, the KW seems to be struggling with the terrain, moving very slowly: I decided to reverse the M16 (AAHT) around the other way, for obvious reasons, and am tweaking the waiting location of some rangers, though I really need a sighting to give me a better idea where Bil will go after the Tits... GaJ

I can answer this now ... Yes In this test, the M16 was facing straight ahead when I gave the fire orders. It rotated to the position that you see, so that it could take this shot obliquely like this. GaJ

Yeah, and yet as someone says they seem to be firing forward obliquely in the BFC movie. Definitely some experimentation to be done very soon!

BTW, I may need to set up a test and play with this AA a little... ... I'm not sure why it's turret is not facing forwards, given the covered arc that it has. I'd rather it start with the gun facing the way the guys are coming from!! ... and hey wouldn't it be nice if the JgPz turns around to shoot at the Sniper, side on to the ATG! In my dreams! (it's midnight here, again!) GaJ

Judging by the way Bil is going slow and careful, and I'm set up a little ways back, it will be some time before real action. Anyhow, on my left side, I now see Hill 130 sports a JgPz as well as a Brummbar. The Brummbar is set back "behind" the hilltop of 130, exclusively watching Right Tit, with no exposure to anywhere else. The JgPz has popped its head over the lip of a ridge on Hill 130 to take advantage of the wonderful view from there that I described to you before.... In addition, the KW is proceeding on its recon down the valley. The sniper on Right Tit can see the JgPz, and it's tantalizingly in range, but the TC's head is not exposed! However, I am going to have them open fire anyhow, just to see if I can persuade that thing to button up even for a little while. It's time for the Snipers to be leaving the Tit around about now in any case, so they might as well have a shot. This movement line takes them out of LOS of both tanks: they can rest for a moment and I'll figure out what to do next with them. The ATG on the left can also see the JgPz: However, this is an impossible shot - the JgPz is angled back so any hit will just glance off the forward armour. As you can see, I've set a covered arc so if for some reason he comes further forward, then we'll have a go. Overall, this is what it looks like The other side is also being reconoitered by a KW. My AA has moved up behind the house along the main road, where a bunch of rangers is already hiding, where it will stay waiting to pop out if Bll leads with Inf or even HTs, but not exposed to an AFV thrust up the middle. I'm a bit relieved it got away from where I set it up without a nasty shell coming out of the back corner and ruining my fun! I'm still considering whether or not to move the Bazookas in that vicinity over the road and into the trees on the right. I think they can find positions not exposed to the back right, which would be great for waiting to try to ambush the armour accompanying Bil's inf... unless the inf happens to swarm through those exact same trees. I'm waiting to see what general direction Bil takes after the Tits to decide about this. Oh - I didn't mention yet: some beast opened fire with HE on Left Tit. This means that the Inf & HTs _are_ being accompanied by at least one tank (of course - as if they would not be!) - another Brummbar maybe, or maybe the Elefant, judging by the "bangs" . That whole lead up to the Tits is frustratingly invisible to me - I just have to wait to see what comes over and around the bend! GaJ

Thanks John, for keeping me company here, and digging those up. It was good to see the "real thing". Of course, there's always this as well, for an idea of what the thing can do: Knowing how infantry fire works against HTs, in CMBN, however, I remain concerned that if my AA gets spotted by a number of units at once, and they don't simply run away, then the guys on board will get taken out. And of course, there's always the nuisance that Bil's attack will be armour accompanied... more about that soon! GaJ

And then... ... nothing happened! For some reason, there doesn't appear to be a smoke barrage afterall. Second thoughts, or something refused to fire, LOS obstruction? Who knows. The only significant move I saw this turn was what looks to be a kubelwagon on its way to do recon by death. Bil certainly seems to have a lot of vehicles - nice what you can afford on the attacking side eh!

For me there is "small" - look like less than 81mm, makes a cute popping sound, nothing to really worry about. Can't tell the difference between 50mm, 60mm, but who really cares. 81mm - Dang, artillery, this might hurt. I know what this looks like. "big" - larger than 81mm, can't really judge it, but it sure is gonna hurt "ginormous" - leaving craters where tanks were GaJ

You great big tease...

Not much to report this turn. Only one more heavy shell landed on the Tits. It struck really close to the Snipers at the back of Right Tit, wounding them but not taking them out: They will stay there this turn, to try to recover. It seems I have at least another minute before the foot soldiers arrive. The Brummbar just sat in the trees out of range, so it's looking like I'm not going to get a head-shot on that TC, unless take the long shot and give myself away on the gamble. I might do that just before bugging out. I'm still comparitively blind on the right side, though the forward sniper is at last approaching the good lookout spot. And what's this... ... it looks like some smoke is coming down next turn, once Bil's spotters get it lined up. I'm loving how it's blowing away in the wind It may become a nuisance that he can lob smoke into my backfield and it blows over me, but it's thinning all the time when that happens. The worst smoke is the stuff that just sits thick in one place... GaJ

(I have Bil's turn, but have to go to work... report later) GaJ