Minotaur

Very good point... I think all other 'WW2 Grand Strategy' games that I've played take weather into account... It also reminds me an idea I had... We should add a new reserch topic (another one ) : 'Winter preparation'... With the winter factor suggested, the more you research this topic, the more you prepare your armies for the cold/mud... So, instead of boosting a unit, this research will remove some disadvantages that occurs in bad weather times: Better movement in winter... Less casualties because of the cold... better winter supply net... Etc... Think of it as a general 'How to prepare for cold/mud' topic... Perfecting anti-freeze... giving better clothing to your troops... Wide-track research... Efficient food-heating for your soldiers... A grease that can sustain cold weather... Training ski-troopers... Etc... Keep in mind that this research wouldn't boost units in winter but instead partially negate the effect of the winter times... And this research will affect all your units equally...

Sorry, but I don't like this idea one bit... 1) Carrier aircraft would always be at a disadvantage against conventional air fleet... 5 vs 10... 2) When you upgrade your carriers (with long range fighters (!)), how many points goes to fighters and how many points goes to it's escort? 3) Remember that the strength of an aircraft carrier group is it's fighters, dive-bombers and torpedoes-bombers... not it's escort...

I'll try to be more clear... If the Carrier is directly attacked (by another ship, aircraft, etc...), then yes, the lack of points means damage to both aircrafts, escorts and perhaps the carrier itself... And yes it could be sunk even if it's not at '0' strength... My problem is the carrier dying because he intercept an enemy air attack... No direct threat to the carrier itself, just fighters from the carriers against enemy fighters... but sometime the carrier is destroyed, even if it's not even close to where the air fight is!!!... That's what I don't want to see... If all carrier fighters are destroyed because of an interception the Carrier should still survive... That's why I suggest the '0' strength... JerseyJohn - If we keep it at 1, it can still attack and defend... Without it's fighters, it should be as unable to attack as a HQ is... Perhaps someting different that 1... '1*' perhaps... Meaning 1 point for defense only... no attack possible... [ February 27, 2003, 08:37 PM: Message edited by: Minotaur ]

What I don't want to see is how the Aircraft Carrier is handle right now... An Aircraft Carrier shouldn't be destroyed because it has lost all it's fighters!!!... It is defenseless, true... But you should have to physically attack it to sink it... I think the AC should be allowed to reach '0' strength without dying... A '0' means 'no aircraft on board' and any MPPs is spend to replace them... If an AC is attacked with fighter onboard, they help defend it... If an AC is attacked without any fighter onboard (strength = 0) then it is sunk and the unit removed...

Bring back memories of an old DOS flight simulator: Aces of the Pacific... How I liked to fly the Corsair!!! Funny how at the beginning of the war the Zero outmatched anything US has... Even if they had only enough bullets for 1 kill! (two with luck)... But at the end, Corsairs & P51 torched them very easily...

Soooo true... I tried the 1941 - Barbarossa scenario... Me as Axis vs Allies AI... FoW on... No bonus for AI, Etc... It's july 1942... I'm quite prepared to stop the 'D-Day'... Enemy planes dropping their bombs and ships starting to bombard Brest... But I have 4 Corps, 2 armies, 1 Tank, 2 Air Fleets, Rommel HQ and 3 Italian Armies... I invaded Vichy France for MPP and to have a port (Algier) to transport Rommel back to defend France... And for the MPPs... That's why Rommel is there... But for the Russian front... I have Kiev, Minsk and Odessa, but I'm not even close to take Kharkov, Smolensk or Sevastopol I've 'hit and run' both mines (south of Kharkov) to drop them to '0', knowing I couldn't hold them for long... Riga is a stalemate right now... USSR try a counter-attack near Odessa swamps... Lenningrad, Moscow and Stalingrad seems very far right now Not very historic... [ February 27, 2003, 12:27 AM: Message edited by: Minotaur ]

Great topics guys... The more I read it, the more I tend to agree about the possibility of buying lesser technology... You cannot transform a Me109 into a Me262... And deciding to put the Me262 in the production lines doesn't means you'll scrap all your old Me109... They still can be used... But that's a thing we can only hope to see in SC2, I think... If we keep SC in mind, I think creating a new unit: Prop fighter make sense... So we would have 2 air fleets: Air Fleet (the one we know) = Prop fighters and Jet Air Fleet = Jet Fighters... Like the 'Rocket', Jet Fighters could be a luxury with it's own research path... The Jet Air Fleet would be inept against sea/land units but very efficient against air units... It could be a good counter against the Oh-too-powerful Air Fleet... I think it's especially true that Jet fighters of that time were a totally new branch, needing more and differents specialists to pilot, prepare and repare them... So I see no problem creating a unit just for it (like the Rocket)...

Here's a idea to help balance... I don't know if it's a good one though... You could assume that Pearl Harbor did occurs in 1941 and US/UK were at war with Japan... Germany stay quiet... Since both countries didn't have to think about Germany, they put all their war machines against Japan... We could assume that Japan would be defeated more quickly because of that... So lets assume Japan is defeated before 1943... Germany is ready to attack, but US saw it coming and had time enough to transfer all it's ships from the Pacific to the Atlantic... This should give some challenge to the newly created German fleet... And since US/UK successfully fight Japan, they would have gain more experience in battle (land, air & sea) than the 'peaceful' Germany... [ February 25, 2003, 12:40 AM: Message edited by: Minotaur ]

Well... Seem I created a Monster... And I was unaware that it exists so much classification for ships... The more I read your topic, the more I saw ships building philosophy of that time was a 'rock-paper-scissor' cross with 'the-faster-the-more-bigger-gun-the-better'... Good question... Seem to have no differences against land or air units... The only difference I saw was ships vs ships... True... annoying, but true... As is "Maus" tank... a 100+ tons behemoth with a 120mm AND a 88mm gun on it's turret... Only 2 existed at the end of the war... Both unfinished... Can you imagine that thing in the Russian mud?... Good idea... Perhaps Hubert should have done this... But we wouldn't have such a interesting Forum... In the end... Yes... Nothing we say here will change gameplay...

That proves 2 things: - These flaws (or not) that peoples complains are very visibles... - The Forum need more than a General & Troubleshooting section...

Yes... My first Axis game... Not enough research... For USA - Army & Corps, Tanks (lvl 2), Plane(lvl 5) & HQ (Eisenhower) For UK - Army & Corps, Plane (lvl 4)& HQ (Monty) Even the famous Free French Air Fleet!... Indeed... A direct amphibious assault to Oslo may be too dangerous because it is too close to the german Fleet/Air Fleet... But an aphibious assault to Bergen, then a land march to Oslo (don't forget an HQ!) may be possible... I think AI is too focused on preparing the "D-Day"... No, never... As Italy, as soon as I destroy the Egyptian Fleet(turn 5-6), it seem UK abandon the Mediterranean theater completely... Even the battleship in Gibraltar quit to the UK... They could also use the help of French ships to remove the Italians fleet... They have time before France Surrender... It needs complete control over the Mediterrannean... A thing it seems unable to do... Axis or Allies, I always seems to take control of the sea there... The only Aggressive AI activity I witnessed is: As the Axis, if I take too long to declare war on Low Countries, the Allies will do it!... With a catastrophic result for them... I had enough time to build up my forces and I can move beyond Brussels... It's already mine and defended by a friendly Corps that I can reinforce at will!... All in all, the AI is great on a turn to turn basis... It only lack the potential to plot some sneaky grand strategy...

And the book must be good enough... It class everything over 20000 tons as a battleship... From the 'Andrea Doria' (Italy, 25200 tons) to the 'Yamato/Mushashi' (Japan, 72800 tons)... [ February 24, 2003, 01:02 AM: Message edited by: Minotaur ]

Mmmm... - Battleships - Battlecruisers - Pocket battleships - Heavy cruisers - Cruisers No wonder it's so complicated to understand... And I assume it's not only tonnage that put a ship in one category or an other... So I assume Rodney and Renown are the battleship unit 'Rodney'... and the Hood alone is the cruiser unit 'Hood' (both near Manchester)?...

Not good enough, since it sank so easily (cut in half!...)... Bad luck?... Yes... But also lack of armored plating at some strategic locations... HMS Hood... UK... done in 1920... 41200 tons... 8 15' cannons... 14 4' cannons... 41200 tons!... Definitely a Battleship class... Bismarck = 41000 tons... I have the book right by my side...

The cruiser near Manchester is named "Hood"... But the Hood was a battleship!... The biggest UK had... It was sunk in 4 minutes by the Bismarck in may 24, 1941 (I did my homework )... I can't believe I didn't saw this before!!!... The Bismarck hunt is one of my favorite topic of WW2... I even saw the film 'Sink The Bismarck!' made in 1943!... [ February 23, 2003, 11:21 PM: Message edited by: Minotaur ]

Perhaps... But I could have buy the Bismarck, the Tirpitz, the Prinz Eugen, more subs or the Graf Zeppelin... I could have invest more and buy some rockets... I could have buy bombers... But I prefered to buy enough Corps, Armies, Tanks, Fighters and HQs to fill a 3 hexes wide Russian front... And it work cuz I won... If there's a problem, I think it's not plunder but unlimited Man Pool... But that's another story...

From my book, WW2 Chronicles: "...Germany sent into battle 152 divisions (more than 3,000,000 mens)..." We could use this formula: 3,000,000 / 150 = 20,000 mens... But I'm sure it's not accurate... Surely a Tank unit doesn't have the same number of mens than a Fighter unit or a Corps... And I wonder if it is only fighting mens or it also includes technicians (Repairing tanks, preparing fighters, etc...), medics, truck drivers, etc... Perhaps the gaps is here... Yes... 7 germans, 2 Romanians & 1 Hungarian...

Thanks...

Good resume JerseyJohn... IMHO, here are the research priorities for... Germany: -------- 1) Industrial Technology - You need it to minimize the fact that you have less MPP than the Allies... 2) Jet Aircraft - The most powerful (too powerful) unit in the game... Always a race between Allies and Axis on this one... 3) Heavy Tank - USSR has a huge advantage on manpower, it can build a lot of Corps fast... You need strong units to counter this... 4) Anti-Tank Weaponry - same as #3 After that, choose which tech will give you the best for the situation: - Advanced Subs - Long Range Aircraft - Rocket - Anti-Aircraft Radar Italy: ------ Only one thing: Industrial Technology... After that, just buy units... UK: --- 1) Jet Aircraft - Same reasons as Germany... 2) Gun Laying Radar - Boost both battleships & cruisers... 3) Long Range Aircraft - Boost your carriers... 4) Industrial Technology - So you can afford your expensive things... After that, choose which tech will give you the best for the situation: - Heavy Bomber - Anti-Aircraft Radar - Sonar USSR: ----- 1) Industrial Technology - Win the tech race against Germany on this one, and you'll pour more units than it can handle... 2) Anti-Tank Weaponry - Give your units (Corps especially) a better chance to survive Axis attacks... 3) Heavy Tank - So you can do what Germany did when 'Barbarossa' started... After that, choose which tech will give you the best for the situation: - Jet Aircraft - Anti-Aircraft Radar - Rocket USA: ---- 1) Jet Aircraft - Same reasons as Germany... 2) Anti-Tank Weaponry - When "D-Day" arrives, you can't fall back... So it's good to have units that have a better chance to survive... 3) Industrial Technology - The more you can buy, the better... After that, choose which tech will give you the best for the situation: - Heavy Tank - Heavy Bombers - Gun Laying Radar - Sonar France: ------- Don't bother...

I red (last night) that Germany send 3,000,000 mens into USSR in june 1941... I'm curious to know how many mens a Unit (Army, Tank, Air Fleet) in the game has... The User Manual says an Army has from 60,000 to 100,000 mens... Let's say any units is 100,000 mens: 10 armies x 100,000 = 1,000,000 4 tanks x 100,000 = 400,000 3 Air Fleet x 100,000 = 300,000 3 HQ x 100,000 = 300,000 Total = 2,000,000... And I'm willing to bet I gave more men that units really have... So where is the last 1,000,000 mens?... Perhaps it's just me... Attacking Russia with so few units just don't fit in my head... :confused:

I open the scenario 1941-Barbarossa with the Editor to check how Germany was prepared for it... And I was surprized... 10 Armies, 4 Tanks, 3 planes & 3 HQ... Is it just me or this is way too few... When I think back of one of my game... I had, from Konigsburg to the Black Sea, almost 3 hexes thick of units when Barbarossa begin (I waited until they declare war)... 1st line only Armies & Tanks... 2nd line, Armies, Tanks & a lot of Corps... 3rd line, Corps, 4 HQs & 2 Air Fleets...

FoW is not for sneak attacks (if we talk about Grand Strategy wargame, and not tactical, squad based wargames) but to simulate what you cannot see beyond your frontline... Unless you expore, you don't know... - Where enemy ships are... - How well prepared for "D-Day" the Allies are... - What surprises lies behind the russian frontline... - How many Air Fleets Germany has in France... - etc... Agreed the change of color is sometime a spoiler... Although it's funny to see the constant switch grey/brown in Russia...

One thing I may add to this topic is the Allies AI "D-Day"... My problem is not the way it do it or when... It's if it's successful or not... If the AI "D-Day" is successful... That is, it has a good foothold on France, pouring troops often and slowly (or quickly if you're unprepared ) driving Germany/Italy back, then everything is fine... On the other hand, if the AI initiate a "D-Day" but for whatever reason (Good initial defense... Quick operation of troops fron Russia to France... etc...) it is due to fail, it keep pouring troops into France to die, one by one... It should learn when to quit... Fall back to UK and wait, preparing another "D-Day"... For example: If the AI have 4 or less troops/tanks in France and no troops in UK/USA to reinforce, then it should turn into 'retreat & rebuild mode'...

I've made this to test how the AI will handle a more complex frontline... And the AI did surprisingly well... 1)Start Campaign Editor and open 1939 - Fall Weiss scenario... 2)Activate these countries with the option 'Joined Allies': - USA - USSR - Low Countries - Yugoslavia - Greece - Canada - Switzerland 3)Activate these countries with the option 'Joined Axis': - Italy - Romania - Bulgaria - Hungary - Baltic States - Ireland - Norway - Sweden - Finland - Denmark - Spain - Portugal - Turkey - Iraq 4) Save campaign... Be sure to give it a other name than '1939 - Fall Weiss'... I played both side with FoW Off to see how well the AI performs... Here are some of my observations... They varies from game to game... Axis AI: - Tukish Corps operated to help defend Germany... - Spanish/Italian seem to help each others to capture Marseille... - Swedish Corps + Aircraft helps defend Baltic States... - Hungaria & Bulgaria fighting Yugoslavia/Greece (with a major help from Germany)... Allies AI: - Zhukov helping Russian Corps defending against Turkish Armies... - UK uses battleships, carriers, bombers and fighters to attack Ireland... Finally Canadian Army capure it... UK was very anxious to remove that thorn from their side... - USA moves Armies in France... 2 against Germany, 2 Against Spain... - USSR attack Finland, Bulgaria, Baltic States and send 2 Armies to help defend Poland... ... And I'm sure you'll see a lot of other interesting things... PS: As far as I played, I saw that Axis was at a real disadvantage... Especially Germany having to defend against France/UK/USA on one side and Poland/USSR on the other side at the same time... Lack of MPP for Axis is another problem since there are no easy, quick conquest for them... Keep in mind that I designed this to see how the AI work, not to have a balanced game... But giving a Huge MPP bonus to Germany should be a good equilizer... [ February 20, 2003, 09:20 PM: Message edited by: Minotaur ]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but you're talking about placing units when playing a game... I was talking about placing units in the Campaign Editor... In the editor, you must 'Awake' a country (ie. make it active right at the start of the game) to be able to place/move units... That's what's annoys me... I wish to be able to place units of a country without 'Awakening' it at the start of a game... I don't think we will see units placement in game in SC... Place bets on SC2... But to answer your question 'Who places the units?'... Not the guy who made a DoW, for sure... The other one...