Terif

[Last update: June 30, 2005 - bidding values] Here are some things everybody should know when he plays a multiplayer game (and wants a chance to win it... ). I will update this first post from time to time. Bidding is explained at the end of this post. BTW: Standard settings in HvsH games are everything on except war in Siberia. All politics random For Axis: ( also contains tips for Allies what not to do ) - Poland has to surrender within 4 turns or russian readiness increases. Fifth turn 2 % every following ~10%. How to keep russian war readiness down: - After Poland surrendered place one unit in one of the two german border cities. - in October 1940: Place a total of 3 units DIRECTLY at the german-russian border at certain places. The nationality doesnt matter, you can also use italians or minor units. 1. one unit has to be in the city of Konigsberg 2. another unit at one of the hexes either southeast or northeast of Warsaw (not in the city of Warsaw itself, there it is useless !) 3. the 3rd unit can be placed anywhere on the 9 border hexes - directly at the border, no hex distance between unit and border You need the 3 units when the minors join, but since you dont know when they do, the 3 units should be placed in October 1940 (Minors start joining November 1940). Only units in Germany count for russian readiness. Units in Romania are irrelevant. If you have not enough units (or too much, but that normally only happens short before Barbarossa)russian readiness increases by 10 % per turn. In case your minors didnt/couldnt join (e.g. because Spain became Axis or France is not conquered) then you need the 3 units at least in December 1940/January 1941. Otherwise russian readiness increases after January 5, 1941. - US readiness increasing starts at February 2, 1941: 4 %/turn. Russian readiness increasing starts at June 22, 1941: 2-6 %/turn randomly if it starts earlier, Axis has not the right amount of units near the russian border. -Dont fear the dutch gambit. If possible attack LC in turn 2. At least be prepared to attack Low coutries in turn 3 with 1 tank, 1 army, 2 corps, 2-3 airfleets (with Hq for the strong units!). If Allies do the gambit attack Brussels and Maginot simultaneously and italian readiness increases by 10 % per turn, so Italy will join in 1-2 turns. Together with the Italians it should be no problem to reach Paris. In the Low Countries: simply concentrate your attacks on one unit and destroy it. You usually can attack with 2-3 ground units from a river ( not very good, but you can reduce its entrenchment to 0) and then use your 4-5 airfleets to kill the enemy (if the gambit happens you need air, not an additional Hq to break the defences ), dont forget to move a cheap (for the case they destroy it )unit in the space and next turn you can do the same with the next enemy unit, but now your starting position improves each turn and after a while the enemy reserves are dead and you can advance towards Paris. -for Allies: without Dutch gambit italian readiness increases only with each surrendered nation (5% each)when Paris is threatened (enemy unit in one hex distance 10%/halfturn) or if you move units from the key positions in the med (2-10 %/turn depending on which and how much). So if you dont move your units in the med (=Gibraltar, Algier, Malta, Alexandria and Beirut. Ships can be moved!) Italy will only join the Axis short before the fall af France. - IRELAND: If allies attack Ireland during the french campaign, then axis should reinforce it until they are sure they will reach Paris. If Ireland surrenders too early, this frees up all allied units busy there and gives a lot of mpp to England (250-350 immediately + 16 mpp/turn). This is often enough to stop and beat Germany in France if the allied player wants to. Better to give allied units some experience than to loose the war early. - ROYAL NAVY: Its better not to attack allied ships with air during the french campaign. Each sunk ship delays the fall of France in average by one turn. Allies have enough ships, but Axis not much time to conquer France - before Allies grow too strong (they start with not much/weak units, but have a lot more mpps/turn than Axis + Russia/USA also dont wait). But after France has fallen, the ship hunting begins...then royal navy should be careful not to move into range of enemy airfleets if not necessary. BTW: attacking ports/cities with ships is extremely expensive (1-4 mpp damage for the enemy, 25-30 mpp in average for the ships...). This is only useful to reach a strategic goal, e.g. if you want to bomb Helsinki port out of order (str 3 or below), so that Axis cant bring reinforcements to Finland (or same in Skandinavia if you want to invade there). - When France surrenders Vichy is created and every allied UK unit(e.g. the canadian corp or army) on Vichy territory surrenders if there is no friendly city nearby and there is no friendly city. So never leave a non french unit in Vichy territory when France surrenders... - SPAIN: Axis have to wait until their minors have joined (Rom + Hung, Bulgaria only depends on the other two) before they attack or their minors wont join any more. Spain joins Axis if they threaten both London and Manchester in a Sealion. (according to the manual it is also possible that Turkey joins if London, all Balkans + Greece is Axis, but you will never have the time to conquer the Balkans before a Sealion and after a successful Sealion most allied players concede, so this will never happen.. ) - NORWAY/SWEDEN: if you have conquered both countries + Denmark you have a virtual connection to the mainland and supply level goes up from 5 to 8. Therefore your mpp income from Norway and Sweden is 14*8=112 mpp/turn. The same for Gibraltar: if you have Spain + Gibraltar you have a virtual connection to Africa and supply goes up from 5 to 8. Especially if you have Iraq, this connection boosts your economy if you can get it. -CANADA: If Axis forces land anywhere in Canada US readiness increases by 100% and they will join the Allies immediately the next turn. So dont do this too early... - SEALION: When Axis land units attack Manchester or London then US readiness increases 20%/full turn as long as enemy units are within 1 hex range of one of the two cities. Russian readiness also increases 10-20%/full turn, but only AFTER Jan/Feb 1941. Therefore an early Sealion is dangerous for allies cause they have to fight without Russia. So protect your homeland as Allies against an early Sealion. With your fleet this should be no problem if you take care. Axis are usually too weak at the beginning for a Sealion if UK is defended. More details: http://www.battlefront.com/cgi-bin/bbs/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=18;t=003011 I hope I could help with these informations for a better start in mp-games and as far as I know they are correct ( tested in more than 300 games... ), but no guarrantee These are some of the most important basic things to know. There are certainly a lot more things, but you only need some practice and mp-games to learn them and the rest really depends on your strategy... and by the way something about carriers: -without tech and experience they are nearly worthless: easy to destroy and expensive to reinforce. - But if you have at least LV 2-3 jets and LV2 long range + experience they are deadly weapons. Each experience medal increases the enemy damage by ~0.5 and decreases the damage taken by the same amount. So with 4 medals they are nearly indestructable (minus ~2 damages)because there is no tech advance for fighters or bombers that increases the naval attack values. And a carrier is a ship and attacks naval !! So never allow Allies to train their carriers or Axis have a problem later in the war... Edit August 2003 : Here a copy of my hints for Russian strategies: Like Bill Macon already said, there exists no strategy that can be used in every situation. It depends on the overall situation and how weak/strong Axis and western Allies (UK/USA) are. But here some possible strategies as Russia (offensive strategies are especially with the mpp from a bid possible, but also after some turns if Axis are weak in Russia): - Use natural defence lines behind rivers or marshes. First defence line Riga-Minsk behind Dvina. In the south: if Axis has not much ground units, then you can try to build a line Kiev-Odessa. If they are strong then behind Dnjepr: Smolensk-Kharkov-Sevastopol. - Siberian transfer is triggered if Axis moves towards Vologda, Moskov, Voronezh, Stalingrad or Rostov. It depends on both sides strengths (if Russia has too many units, then even if Moskov is attacked, siberians dont come) and how many units move how close to one of the above mentioned cities. Moskov has the biggest range (units count for siberians within 4 hexes around it) other cities have shorter range. - you can use the siberian triggers for your advantage as Russia: When Minsk and Smolensk have fallen, you dont need to build a line between Leningrad and Moskov. Just leave it free. If Axis moves into this gap, then siberians arrive. If not, you can use your units/mpps better at another place and you have a much smaller front. - for defence lines use cheap corps. They are easy to replace. A tank can cause some damage to Axis, but is as easy destroyed as a corps, but much more expensive. Russia cant afford to loose too many mpps (or their defence lines will break soon and Axis can cut off Russian forces), Axis can. - if you have enough mpp have some Hq supported armies/tanks - some hexes behind the front - ready to kill enemy broke through units. - TAKE CARE OF YOUR HQ´S ! Dont move them to close to the front if the enemy has some airfleets ready to kill them. Dont forget Long Range developements ! Hqs support units 5 hexes away, your cities provide them with supply, so no need to move your Hqs to the front. Also dont forget to use terrain to protect your Hqs: placed in a city (forest is also better than open terrain) or best in a mountain, they are nearly indestructable. If you entrench your Hqs in the right terrain or keep them out of enemy sigthing range, you dont have a problem with airfleets killing your Hqs like some players complain. If a Hq is in a mountain or city, the enemy needs luck and up to 10 !! airfleets to be able to kill it, with bad luck even much more... So if he attacks your Hq be happy: he gets some cheap experience, but with his air he could have killed you some much more important units elsewhere... And if he really has 10+ airfleets at the east front, then stay away with your Hqs and dont forget to attack in the west, since he has no air left for defence there. If Axis can afford so much air AND enough ground units AND a defence in the west, then Allies did a lot wrong in the past and have lost . It is simply an mpp problem: if Axis buy a lot of airfleets then they have weak ground forces and ground forces are much more efficient in killing other ground units than airfleets. Usually Axis cant afford more than 7-9 airfleets in total. If they have more, than Allies should also have a lot or they did something wrong and have lost anyway, no matter if Axis buy air or other things with their mpp...(little contribution to the "too powerful" airfleet discussion ). Some offensive strategies: - first target is Finland. Either taken by an amphibious invasion or attacked from Leningrad, supported by russian air. If Germany has jet advantage, then Russia has to be fast or to destroy Helsinki port . If the port is below 5, then Axis cant send reinforcements or a Hq and Finland will fall within 2-3 turns when attacked from land. - If Russia is strong and can compete with Axis air, then Sweden is an option. - If Russia attacks Turkey, they have a connection to Africa and can conquer Iraq and Beirut. In the first wave, Istanbul should be taken, or at least some units have to land east of the city to cut off Turkey from the rest of Europe. If Axis is able to establish a land connection so that they can operate units directly to the turkish capital and Iraq, then Russia has lost the turkish war, so take care... Now a last advice: Always have a look at the overall situation. In SC there are two fronts: east (Russia) and west (UK/USA). Usually one of them is in the defence, one in the offence. The player has to recognice where he has to defend against Axis and where he can attack. Axis decide at which front they use their mpp/units, but Allies can influence this decission by their actions (especially their actions BEFORE Barbarossa) . If Axis attack strong in the east, they are weak in the west. Therefore Russia should defend and USA/UK attack and win the war. If Axis attacks England or leaves much in the west, then they are weak in the east. Therefore Russia can go in the offensive while UK/USA defend/try to keep Axis units in the west. Link: http://www.battlefront.com/cgi-bin/bbs/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=18;t=002835 Edit September 17, 2003: Spain: If Spain is not neutral any more (either attacked from Axis or Allies), then the usual Axis minors wont join any more (Hungary, Romania, Bulgaria). Finland is not effected. If Allies attack Spain, then Axis should NOT attack Romania before Russia is in (and think very carefully if they really want to attack Hungary/Bulgaria...similar readiness effects as Norway). Attacking Romania results in a readiness penalty concerning Russia of ~15-25% and will bring it in much earlier (maybe immediately). Therefore its better to wait... Edit October 2003: Early war shopping list (copied): It all depends on your strategy and where you see the opportunities and threats (highly dependant on your opponent). Allies can choose between dozens (or hundreds, depends on the definition ) of strategies and you need different forces/units for each of them. Therefore this is a very complex topic. But for the "early war" there are some guidelines. First for France: - make sure you can defend/ delay the conquest of France. Never retreat your forces to Paris (except you open a hex to set a trap, kill an enemy unit and close the gap...) or France will fall much too early without losses for Germany. - There are two main defence strategies for France: 1st: corps defence = France buys corps for every hex between LC and Paris. Then Germany usually needs until June/July 1940 until Paris falls (1-2 corps killed/turn). Low casualties for both sides, some armies will become free french, sometimes even a Hq. UK can save mpps and invest in all the nice things it needs later in the war, but Germany will also be strong. At the start they only need to send 2-3 corps to prevent early breakthroughs of Germany in France. The rest of the corps will be french ones. 2nd: fighting with a french Hq. There UK has to buy a lot of corps to build the first defence line. The french mpps will be used to reinforce/replace the 5 french armies that will kill any enemy unit that breaks through the british corps (no mpps left for french corps ). If possible UK should buy Montgomery to support the airfleets. BTW: to buy the french Hq: you can disband the AF + 2 battleships to build it in turn 1 (or wait until turn 2 + AF). Never leave your Med positions or even disband Med corps(=italian readiness increases). Then Italy will only join when Germany reaches the outskirts of Paris. Guidelines in general: - when airfleets have to fight, they need support by a Hq. Without a Hq it is very expensive and the enemy doesnt loose much. So buy Montgomery before you send your airfleets in a battle (if you dont fight with your air, Monti can wait ). - make sure you can defend England against an early Sealion (e.g. placing your fleet near the homeland, buying some corps/holding mpps back in cash...). - buy some chits in Jets and LR to stay competitive with german air, but dont neglect your Island defence. If the enemy is more advanced, then move your air out of interception range until your tech catches up. - everything else ("shopping list") totally depends on your strategy: 2nd Hq for Egypt, armies/tanks/corps for Egypt or Spain or Skandinavia or Africa... airfleets + tech... Gun laying radar + anti-sub...carriers...corps for raids at Brest, Brussel, Denmark, Med...and so on... Link: http://www.battlefront.com/cgi-bin/bbs/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=18&t=003014#000009 Some Guidelines for Germany to break through a strong french defence (Allies use every unit in France to crush Germany early): Link: http://www.battlefront.com/cgi-bin/bbs/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=18&t=003024#000001 - Be fast in Poland and LC. Usually Poland falls turn 3 or 4. LC turn 2 (turn 1: operate/move 1 army, 1 tank, 3 AFs + Hq west). LC should fall latest in turn 3 or Germany has a problem if Allies do the LC gambit... - Together with the Denmark plunder you can buy 2 AFs (Allied LC gambit) or 1 AF + HQ (Germany conquers LC). - Germany has 4 AFs, UK only 2 + 2 carriers. The carriers have only 1-2 shots until they are heavily damaged and not able to attack any more (and they are very expensive to reinforce ) - If Allies use the french airfleet, be happy and force it to intercept. Without Hq this is very expensive for France and their ground forces are cannon fodder without Hq anyway. - Only use your air if you can finish off an enemy unit with them or force a carrier to intercept/attacking them directly. - stay away from the water, german units hates it to be bombarded by UK navy . - first take the hex northwest of the Ardennes forest, then the Ardennes. Then you can choose which way to go: either directly towards Paris, or if the opponent is strong: move south, take the french mine and cut off Maginot. Then you have a broad front to attack with your land units. - if Allies can do the LC gambit (but Germany should be faster), then Italy will join and if necessary (Allies too strong around LC) you can also use the way from the south: attacking through Italy without opposing UK air/carriers. Allies have only a very very small chance to stop an experienced and prepared Axis player in France. But every new player will loose the first games against a full french defence. So dont give up, learn how to break through . Edit March 2004 Bidding: In Human vs Human games it is common practice to use bonus mpps for Allies("bid") to decide who plays which side in the Fall Weiss campaign. The one with the highest bid plays Axis. With some experience Axis has a huge advantage, therefore Allies need extra mpps to even out this advantage. The first system was a 1:1:1 system (=mpps x bid for UK,USA,Russia), i.e. if someone bids e.g. 150, then UK gets 150mpp, USA 150mpp and Russia 150mpp. This is an old (obsolete)system, but can still be used by new players. In the meantime the most common systems are 1:8 (1xUK, 8xRussia), 1:10 (1xUK, 10xRussia) and the newest system: 1:5:20 (1xUK, 5x USA, 20x Russia). E.g. a bid of 200 means in the 1:5:20 system: 200 mpp for UK, 1000 USA, 4000 Russia (in 1:10=200UK, 2000Russia). The host adds the bonus mpp in the scenario editor to the fall weiss scenario, saves it under a new name and then can load it for the game. The size of the bid highly depends on the experience of both players and especially the axis one, since axis only has an advantage when the axis player knows how to play his side and the advantage increases with the experience. Here some average values (June 2005): new vs new: no bid necessary (Allies even can be in the advantage here) intermediate vs intermediate: bid 200-300 system 1:10 (or 100-150 in 1:5:20) experienced players: bid 150-300 in 1:5:20 (standard is around 200-250) veteran vs veteran: bid 200-300 in 1:5:30 [ June 30, 2005, 02:02 AM: Message edited by: Terif ]

[Last update: June 30, 2005 - bidding values] Here are some things everybody should know when he plays a multiplayer game (and wants a chance to win it... ). I will update this first post from time to time. Bidding is explained at the end of this post. BTW: Standard settings in HvsH games are everything on except war in Siberia. All politics random For Axis: ( also contains tips for Allies what not to do ) - Poland has to surrender within 4 turns or russian readiness increases. Fifth turn 2 % every following ~10%. How to keep russian war readiness down: - After Poland surrendered place one unit in one of the two german border cities. - in October 1940: Place a total of 3 units DIRECTLY at the german-russian border at certain places. The nationality doesnt matter, you can also use italians or minor units. 1. one unit has to be in the city of Konigsberg 2. another unit at one of the hexes either southeast or northeast of Warsaw (not in the city of Warsaw itself, there it is useless !) 3. the 3rd unit can be placed anywhere on the 9 border hexes - directly at the border, no hex distance between unit and border You need the 3 units when the minors join, but since you dont know when they do, the 3 units should be placed in October 1940 (Minors start joining November 1940). Only units in Germany count for russian readiness. Units in Romania are irrelevant. If you have not enough units (or too much, but that normally only happens short before Barbarossa)russian readiness increases by 10 % per turn. In case your minors didnt/couldnt join (e.g. because Spain became Axis or France is not conquered) then you need the 3 units at least in December 1940/January 1941. Otherwise russian readiness increases after January 5, 1941. - US readiness increasing starts at February 2, 1941: 4 %/turn. Russian readiness increasing starts at June 22, 1941: 2-6 %/turn randomly if it starts earlier, Axis has not the right amount of units near the russian border. -Dont fear the dutch gambit. If possible attack LC in turn 2. At least be prepared to attack Low coutries in turn 3 with 1 tank, 1 army, 2 corps, 2-3 airfleets (with Hq for the strong units!). If Allies do the gambit attack Brussels and Maginot simultaneously and italian readiness increases by 10 % per turn, so Italy will join in 1-2 turns. Together with the Italians it should be no problem to reach Paris. In the Low Countries: simply concentrate your attacks on one unit and destroy it. You usually can attack with 2-3 ground units from a river ( not very good, but you can reduce its entrenchment to 0) and then use your 4-5 airfleets to kill the enemy (if the gambit happens you need air, not an additional Hq to break the defences ), dont forget to move a cheap (for the case they destroy it )unit in the space and next turn you can do the same with the next enemy unit, but now your starting position improves each turn and after a while the enemy reserves are dead and you can advance towards Paris. -for Allies: without Dutch gambit italian readiness increases only with each surrendered nation (5% each)when Paris is threatened (enemy unit in one hex distance 10%/halfturn) or if you move units from the key positions in the med (2-10 %/turn depending on which and how much). So if you dont move your units in the med (=Gibraltar, Algier, Malta, Alexandria and Beirut. Ships can be moved!) Italy will only join the Axis short before the fall af France. - IRELAND: If allies attack Ireland during the french campaign, then axis should reinforce it until they are sure they will reach Paris. If Ireland surrenders too early, this frees up all allied units busy there and gives a lot of mpp to England (250-350 immediately + 16 mpp/turn). This is often enough to stop and beat Germany in France if the allied player wants to. Better to give allied units some experience than to loose the war early. - ROYAL NAVY: Its better not to attack allied ships with air during the french campaign. Each sunk ship delays the fall of France in average by one turn. Allies have enough ships, but Axis not much time to conquer France - before Allies grow too strong (they start with not much/weak units, but have a lot more mpps/turn than Axis + Russia/USA also dont wait). But after France has fallen, the ship hunting begins...then royal navy should be careful not to move into range of enemy airfleets if not necessary. BTW: attacking ports/cities with ships is extremely expensive (1-4 mpp damage for the enemy, 25-30 mpp in average for the ships...). This is only useful to reach a strategic goal, e.g. if you want to bomb Helsinki port out of order (str 3 or below), so that Axis cant bring reinforcements to Finland (or same in Skandinavia if you want to invade there). - When France surrenders Vichy is created and every allied UK unit(e.g. the canadian corp or army) on Vichy territory surrenders if there is no friendly city nearby and there is no friendly city. So never leave a non french unit in Vichy territory when France surrenders... - SPAIN: Axis have to wait until their minors have joined (Rom + Hung, Bulgaria only depends on the other two) before they attack or their minors wont join any more. Spain joins Axis if they threaten both London and Manchester in a Sealion. (according to the manual it is also possible that Turkey joins if London, all Balkans + Greece is Axis, but you will never have the time to conquer the Balkans before a Sealion and after a successful Sealion most allied players concede, so this will never happen.. ) - NORWAY/SWEDEN: if you have conquered both countries + Denmark you have a virtual connection to the mainland and supply level goes up from 5 to 8. Therefore your mpp income from Norway and Sweden is 14*8=112 mpp/turn. The same for Gibraltar: if you have Spain + Gibraltar you have a virtual connection to Africa and supply goes up from 5 to 8. Especially if you have Iraq, this connection boosts your economy if you can get it. -CANADA: If Axis forces land anywhere in Canada US readiness increases by 100% and they will join the Allies immediately the next turn. So dont do this too early... - SEALION: When Axis land units attack Manchester or London then US readiness increases 20%/full turn as long as enemy units are within 1 hex range of one of the two cities. Russian readiness also increases 10-20%/full turn, but only AFTER Jan/Feb 1941. Therefore an early Sealion is dangerous for allies cause they have to fight without Russia. So protect your homeland as Allies against an early Sealion. With your fleet this should be no problem if you take care. Axis are usually too weak at the beginning for a Sealion if UK is defended. More details: http://www.battlefront.com/cgi-bin/bbs/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=18;t=003011 I hope I could help with these informations for a better start in mp-games and as far as I know they are correct ( tested in more than 300 games... ), but no guarrantee These are some of the most important basic things to know. There are certainly a lot more things, but you only need some practice and mp-games to learn them and the rest really depends on your strategy... and by the way something about carriers: -without tech and experience they are nearly worthless: easy to destroy and expensive to reinforce. - But if you have at least LV 2-3 jets and LV2 long range + experience they are deadly weapons. Each experience medal increases the enemy damage by ~0.5 and decreases the damage taken by the same amount. So with 4 medals they are nearly indestructable (minus ~2 damages)because there is no tech advance for fighters or bombers that increases the naval attack values. And a carrier is a ship and attacks naval !! So never allow Allies to train their carriers or Axis have a problem later in the war... Edit August 2003 : Here a copy of my hints for Russian strategies: Like Bill Macon already said, there exists no strategy that can be used in every situation. It depends on the overall situation and how weak/strong Axis and western Allies (UK/USA) are. But here some possible strategies as Russia (offensive strategies are especially with the mpp from a bid possible, but also after some turns if Axis are weak in Russia): - Use natural defence lines behind rivers or marshes. First defence line Riga-Minsk behind Dvina. In the south: if Axis has not much ground units, then you can try to build a line Kiev-Odessa. If they are strong then behind Dnjepr: Smolensk-Kharkov-Sevastopol. - Siberian transfer is triggered if Axis moves towards Vologda, Moskov, Voronezh, Stalingrad or Rostov. It depends on both sides strengths (if Russia has too many units, then even if Moskov is attacked, siberians dont come) and how many units move how close to one of the above mentioned cities. Moskov has the biggest range (units count for siberians within 4 hexes around it) other cities have shorter range. - you can use the siberian triggers for your advantage as Russia: When Minsk and Smolensk have fallen, you dont need to build a line between Leningrad and Moskov. Just leave it free. If Axis moves into this gap, then siberians arrive. If not, you can use your units/mpps better at another place and you have a much smaller front. - for defence lines use cheap corps. They are easy to replace. A tank can cause some damage to Axis, but is as easy destroyed as a corps, but much more expensive. Russia cant afford to loose too many mpps (or their defence lines will break soon and Axis can cut off Russian forces), Axis can. - if you have enough mpp have some Hq supported armies/tanks - some hexes behind the front - ready to kill enemy broke through units. - TAKE CARE OF YOUR HQ´S ! Dont move them to close to the front if the enemy has some airfleets ready to kill them. Dont forget Long Range developements ! Hqs support units 5 hexes away, your cities provide them with supply, so no need to move your Hqs to the front. Also dont forget to use terrain to protect your Hqs: placed in a city (forest is also better than open terrain) or best in a mountain, they are nearly indestructable. If you entrench your Hqs in the right terrain or keep them out of enemy sigthing range, you dont have a problem with airfleets killing your Hqs like some players complain. If a Hq is in a mountain or city, the enemy needs luck and up to 10 !! airfleets to be able to kill it, with bad luck even much more... So if he attacks your Hq be happy: he gets some cheap experience, but with his air he could have killed you some much more important units elsewhere... And if he really has 10+ airfleets at the east front, then stay away with your Hqs and dont forget to attack in the west, since he has no air left for defence there. If Axis can afford so much air AND enough ground units AND a defence in the west, then Allies did a lot wrong in the past and have lost . It is simply an mpp problem: if Axis buy a lot of airfleets then they have weak ground forces and ground forces are much more efficient in killing other ground units than airfleets. Usually Axis cant afford more than 7-9 airfleets in total. If they have more, than Allies should also have a lot or they did something wrong and have lost anyway, no matter if Axis buy air or other things with their mpp...(little contribution to the "too powerful" airfleet discussion ). Some offensive strategies: - first target is Finland. Either taken by an amphibious invasion or attacked from Leningrad, supported by russian air. If Germany has jet advantage, then Russia has to be fast or to destroy Helsinki port . If the port is below 5, then Axis cant send reinforcements or a Hq and Finland will fall within 2-3 turns when attacked from land. - If Russia is strong and can compete with Axis air, then Sweden is an option. - If Russia attacks Turkey, they have a connection to Africa and can conquer Iraq and Beirut. In the first wave, Istanbul should be taken, or at least some units have to land east of the city to cut off Turkey from the rest of Europe. If Axis is able to establish a land connection so that they can operate units directly to the turkish capital and Iraq, then Russia has lost the turkish war, so take care... Now a last advice: Always have a look at the overall situation. In SC there are two fronts: east (Russia) and west (UK/USA). Usually one of them is in the defence, one in the offence. The player has to recognice where he has to defend against Axis and where he can attack. Axis decide at which front they use their mpp/units, but Allies can influence this decission by their actions (especially their actions BEFORE Barbarossa) . If Axis attack strong in the east, they are weak in the west. Therefore Russia should defend and USA/UK attack and win the war. If Axis attacks England or leaves much in the west, then they are weak in the east. Therefore Russia can go in the offensive while UK/USA defend/try to keep Axis units in the west. Link: http://www.battlefront.com/cgi-bin/bbs/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=18;t=002835 Edit September 17, 2003: Spain: If Spain is not neutral any more (either attacked from Axis or Allies), then the usual Axis minors wont join any more (Hungary, Romania, Bulgaria). Finland is not effected. If Allies attack Spain, then Axis should NOT attack Romania before Russia is in (and think very carefully if they really want to attack Hungary/Bulgaria...similar readiness effects as Norway). Attacking Romania results in a readiness penalty concerning Russia of ~15-25% and will bring it in much earlier (maybe immediately). Therefore its better to wait... Edit October 2003: Early war shopping list (copied): It all depends on your strategy and where you see the opportunities and threats (highly dependant on your opponent). Allies can choose between dozens (or hundreds, depends on the definition ) of strategies and you need different forces/units for each of them. Therefore this is a very complex topic. But for the "early war" there are some guidelines. First for France: - make sure you can defend/ delay the conquest of France. Never retreat your forces to Paris (except you open a hex to set a trap, kill an enemy unit and close the gap...) or France will fall much too early without losses for Germany. - There are two main defence strategies for France: 1st: corps defence = France buys corps for every hex between LC and Paris. Then Germany usually needs until June/July 1940 until Paris falls (1-2 corps killed/turn). Low casualties for both sides, some armies will become free french, sometimes even a Hq. UK can save mpps and invest in all the nice things it needs later in the war, but Germany will also be strong. At the start they only need to send 2-3 corps to prevent early breakthroughs of Germany in France. The rest of the corps will be french ones. 2nd: fighting with a french Hq. There UK has to buy a lot of corps to build the first defence line. The french mpps will be used to reinforce/replace the 5 french armies that will kill any enemy unit that breaks through the british corps (no mpps left for french corps ). If possible UK should buy Montgomery to support the airfleets. BTW: to buy the french Hq: you can disband the AF + 2 battleships to build it in turn 1 (or wait until turn 2 + AF). Never leave your Med positions or even disband Med corps(=italian readiness increases). Then Italy will only join when Germany reaches the outskirts of Paris. Guidelines in general: - when airfleets have to fight, they need support by a Hq. Without a Hq it is very expensive and the enemy doesnt loose much. So buy Montgomery before you send your airfleets in a battle (if you dont fight with your air, Monti can wait ). - make sure you can defend England against an early Sealion (e.g. placing your fleet near the homeland, buying some corps/holding mpps back in cash...). - buy some chits in Jets and LR to stay competitive with german air, but dont neglect your Island defence. If the enemy is more advanced, then move your air out of interception range until your tech catches up. - everything else ("shopping list") totally depends on your strategy: 2nd Hq for Egypt, armies/tanks/corps for Egypt or Spain or Skandinavia or Africa... airfleets + tech... Gun laying radar + anti-sub...carriers...corps for raids at Brest, Brussel, Denmark, Med...and so on... Link: http://www.battlefront.com/cgi-bin/bbs/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=18&t=003014#000009 Some Guidelines for Germany to break through a strong french defence (Allies use every unit in France to crush Germany early): Link: http://www.battlefront.com/cgi-bin/bbs/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=18&t=003024#000001 - Be fast in Poland and LC. Usually Poland falls turn 3 or 4. LC turn 2 (turn 1: operate/move 1 army, 1 tank, 3 AFs + Hq west). LC should fall latest in turn 3 or Germany has a problem if Allies do the LC gambit... - Together with the Denmark plunder you can buy 2 AFs (Allied LC gambit) or 1 AF + HQ (Germany conquers LC). - Germany has 4 AFs, UK only 2 + 2 carriers. The carriers have only 1-2 shots until they are heavily damaged and not able to attack any more (and they are very expensive to reinforce ) - If Allies use the french airfleet, be happy and force it to intercept. Without Hq this is very expensive for France and their ground forces are cannon fodder without Hq anyway. - Only use your air if you can finish off an enemy unit with them or force a carrier to intercept/attacking them directly. - stay away from the water, german units hates it to be bombarded by UK navy . - first take the hex northwest of the Ardennes forest, then the Ardennes. Then you can choose which way to go: either directly towards Paris, or if the opponent is strong: move south, take the french mine and cut off Maginot. Then you have a broad front to attack with your land units. - if Allies can do the LC gambit (but Germany should be faster), then Italy will join and if necessary (Allies too strong around LC) you can also use the way from the south: attacking through Italy without opposing UK air/carriers. Allies have only a very very small chance to stop an experienced and prepared Axis player in France. But every new player will loose the first games against a full french defence. So dont give up, learn how to break through . Edit March 2004 Bidding: In Human vs Human games it is common practice to use bonus mpps for Allies("bid") to decide who plays which side in the Fall Weiss campaign. The one with the highest bid plays Axis. With some experience Axis has a huge advantage, therefore Allies need extra mpps to even out this advantage. The first system was a 1:1:1 system (=mpps x bid for UK,USA,Russia), i.e. if someone bids e.g. 150, then UK gets 150mpp, USA 150mpp and Russia 150mpp. This is an old (obsolete)system, but can still be used by new players. In the meantime the most common systems are 1:8 (1xUK, 8xRussia), 1:10 (1xUK, 10xRussia) and the newest system: 1:5:20 (1xUK, 5x USA, 20x Russia). E.g. a bid of 200 means in the 1:5:20 system: 200 mpp for UK, 1000 USA, 4000 Russia (in 1:10=200UK, 2000Russia). The host adds the bonus mpp in the scenario editor to the fall weiss scenario, saves it under a new name and then can load it for the game. The size of the bid highly depends on the experience of both players and especially the axis one, since axis only has an advantage when the axis player knows how to play his side and the advantage increases with the experience. Here some average values (June 2005): new vs new: no bid necessary (Allies even can be in the advantage here) intermediate vs intermediate: bid 200-300 system 1:10 (or 100-150 in 1:5:20) experienced players: bid 150-300 in 1:5:20 (standard is around 200-250) veteran vs veteran: bid 200-300 in 1:5:30 [ June 30, 2005, 02:02 AM: Message edited by: Terif ]

Rambo: In our last games when I played Allies I used exactly the same strategy and hoped you would´nt do the same mistakes again but you did. First you allow me to train my carriers without disturbing them. You leave a unit in most of your french citys, so that I can choose which one to attack and your airfleets are somewhere else ( in the last game they even didnt attack something they were only hidden somewhere -for a while at least). And second you move some airfleets in range of all my carriers and airfleets around London when it is obviously too late. In the last game where you are complaining about your 3 killed airfleets in your citys: you just moved them there (mid 1941 !! short before Russia enters war...), so no entrenchment. I had jets Lv4 and long range Lv3 ( with 5 chits each, so this is not only for luck...). You dont need to wonder that I killed your 3 airfleet with 3 airfleets of my own - trained in France - and 3 very experienced carriers at full strength. You really had enough time to build up your forces and to do something usefull with them (e.g. conquer some additional neutrals or use them in Russia), cause I barely attacked you and prefered to spend my mpp in tech and airfleets. If you do the same mistake every game (allow me to train my carriers and to build up tech + additional airfleets and after this, move some airfleets in range, so that I can kill them one after the other ) then I cant help you... [ March 02, 2003, 08:06 AM: Message edited by: Terif ]

Waltero: I was Allies and put everything in tech: In the 3rd or 4th turn (after Ireland) I had my first 2 chits in long range and very soon 5 chits. We played ~30 turns, I ended up with Long range Lv 3, thats really not very much for perhaps 15-20 turns research with 5 chits... ( in jets I had 3 chits and got Lv2)

Hubert is right. I just tested it again and found for attacking airfleets there is no difference between river and normal terrain. I am sure there was a difference for the expected combat results in my last test, but I guess that was before the patch...

Central European time is GMT+1 = forum time(Eastern Standard Time)+6 hours. So when you have 3 am forum time its 9 am Central European time(=GMT+1). ( in England e.g. its one hour less, so it would be 8 am).

after some turns receiving very high air damages your airfleets left the battleground and went to Italy. I know it because I met them with my partisan corp. Your airfleet was at strength 4 before the encounter, as far as I know it had only once intercepted, so it lost 6. My carriers only lost 0-1 strength point with each attack and the first turns you had 3 airfleets Intercepting, thats a lot of mpp down the river... I dont think you had much left to build units. Anyway, you hadnt conquered Norway or Sweden and Russia was coming in... However, you conceded so we dont need to argue about that ( But if you want to we can continue the game with an old save before you attacked Spain ).

Hmm, Spain was only the last nail Rambo lost a lot in France ( 2 armies, 3 corps) and it surrendered in October 1940. I could save the whole french army with HQ, 2 armies, tank and some corps. In the end I had 4 airfleets, 3 carriers and research superiority. Low countries and Brest had been liberated, Egypt still Allied, total allied air superiority in France.... It was only a matter of time [ February 09, 2003, 06:49 AM: Message edited by: Terif ]

Its every time interesting and fun to beat back the Axis invasion in Russia, as well as invading France and/or other countries with Allied forces . In Nights game it was luck, that Axis made the mistake not to take Eqypt and Iraq - and the mine north of Sewastopol... For Seawolf: In the second strategy I usually give 7-10 chits to jets and long range research (UK). Investing in antitank or tanks is useless, cause this doesnt improve the free french and UK has no other land forces but some corps. USA has to invest in antitank or tanks - they build the ground troops - and nothing in air. Investing in industrial resarch is normally not worth the mpp. Only if you are very lucky in research...

Hello Night. In your current game it seems to be too late for Allies to win. But Russia has no problem to withstand Axis if you have a long term strategy as Allied player. There are two main strategies to reach this: 1. The action strategy: good for impatient players, interesting but you need to know when and where to attack and when to retreat to do this successful. You fight till the last man and mpp with your Allied forces, give Axis a hard time conquering France and the neutrals. Try to defend Egypt or Spain, land in Denmark to cut of the northern countries ( supply goes down from 8 to 5 )and so on... Allies will have very high losses, but Axis too (Axis should loose as much or more than Allies)and they can never afford 7 airfleets + ground forces for Russia. Especially if they need units all along their coasts to defend against UK and later US attacks. Normally you then can make trench warfare in Russia, get stronger and after some turns slowly but surely march towards Berlin. 2. The research and airsuperiority strategy: You fight for France but dont get too much involved with your UK forces. At the end try to save as much french units as possible. Dont forget to attack Ireland when Italy entered the war ( you need the mpp early). Invest your mpp in research to get jets and long range for your air and more important, the 3 carriers. Dont attack too early, you need at least Lv2 or 3 in jets and long range, so your carriers are stronger than the German air. Try to build up their experience by attacking helpless ground units ( without enemy air besides them...). One or two turns before Germany has to attack Russia you have to invade. Hopefully with your free French task force or US troops. Best is France and/or Low Countries. By this time you should have some airfleets, 3 carriers and some tech advances. Therefore you have total airsuperiority. Axis needs a lot of units to defends the ressources and cities along the border that they cant use for their attack on Russia. With your air it should be no problem to kill 1-3 units each turn at minimal losses. Axis is strong at this point, but your air is much stronger, and if they send airfleets to France, simply destroy them with your carriers. Hightech carriers with experience are unbeatable. They can only be destroyed if you make a very big mistake. Take care of ships and especially subs: some Allied ships should protect your carriers against them. If Axis operates a lot of Air to France, you should see them with long range, be careful and destroy them one after the other - first let an airfleet intercept, then kill it with a direct attack. Conclusion: The key to success (and to save Russia is not to allow Axis a strong force in Russia. UK and US have the task to kill them before and/or bind them at other fronts.

The same like Rambo, fifth ladder victory. Iron Ranger was Allies, I won as Axis. Cash handicap 100.

Hi Zappsweden, like against you I played two games with Hueristic as he wrote. He lost both: as Axis and Allied. So I have now 4 Victories in the Ladder By the way, if someone wants to play a ladder game with me i have in general time from 4-12am forum time and from 2-4pm. E-mail or post in the Opponent Finder Forum... [ January 17, 2003, 09:28 AM: Message edited by: Terif ]

I am looking for the Challengers from Zappswedens "Champion Ladder". If someone wants to play write it in the Opponent Finder Forum (Topic is already open) or send me e-mail. Today (thursday) i have time from 2pm-4.30pm forum time. (i will be online at 2pm and check) Friday: 6 am - 12 am and 2pm-5pm forum time. Hueristic, this is your chance for a non Terif/Zapp match [ January 16, 2003, 01:48 PM: Message edited by: Terif ]

August 3, 1941: Axis DOW to Greece, Capital captured but no surrender. Portugal corp made suicide. French Hq in Egypt destroyed, remaining forces are fleeing. Russian units remove from the frontline after heavy losses. Allies make heavy naval attacks near Gibraltar. August 17: Portugal surrenders, Beirut captured. US navy near Portugal bombed by german airfleets. Two Russian cities conquered. August 31: Russian DOW to Iraq. First tank sighted. Last french army in Iraq destroyed. Allied navy retreat from Spain. Greece surrendered. September 21: Iraq is under Axis control. Gibraltar under Heavy attack and will fall in 1 or 2 turns. Full scale US invasion at Brest. The fourth russian city and one mine occupied. November 16: German armies approaching Leningrad, port is under attack. Finnland declares war to Russia. Heavy fihts in France. The german Spain elite force and 3 airfleets come to help... February 1942: Heavy air and ground battles in France. Allied landing in Portugal. Italian navy beats back... Leningrad conquered. Riga still russian and isolated. Russian counterattack south of Moscow March 1942: Allied invasions failed. France and Portugal will be cleared by next turn. May 1942: No Allied units left in France or Portugal, Naval battle near Lissbon. Riga has fallen. Very big tank battle between Moscow and Kharkov. June 1942: Heavy naval losses near Gibraltar, italian battleship and cruiser sunk. The Moscow-Kharkov battle goes on. Axis reinforcements from France arrive. June 28, 1942: The french reinforcements turned the tide. Axis approaching Moscow and Kharkov. Siberians transfered. [ January 16, 2003, 08:17 AM: Message edited by: Terif ]

July 20, 1941: Axis DOW to Portugal and Russia. Spain surrendered. Alexandria is captured and the wreck of the last UK cruiser in Eqypt lies near Suez.

October 13, 1940: Axis DOW to Vichy, but the first attack in Algier failed. November 10, 1940: Vichy surrenders one UK corp caught near Algier, DOW to Sweden. February 2, 1941: Sweden surrenders. March 1941: Hungary and Romania join Axis [ January 15, 2003, 02:39 PM: Message edited by: Terif ]

October 1940: The UK fleet in Egypt isnt in trouble any more. She lies at the bottom of the Sea . Or at least the carrier and one cruiser. One ship with strength 1 and one with strength 2 are hiding somewhere East..

Allies DOW to Ireland. UK ships flee towards Alexandria but are followed and one after one destroyed by italians.

July 28, 1940: France surrendered, UK units try to reach the next port. Italian Navy attacks carrier in the Med, only 2 strength points left. German air operates in the South.

July 1940: Italian fleet under french attack. Sub is sinking. Heavy fight for Paris. It will probably fall next turn. War Readiness has been increased by the prolonged fight for Poland by 13 %. So in total it is now: USA 14; Russia 52 [ January 15, 2003, 07:56 AM: Message edited by: Terif ]

June 30, 1940: First axis army reaches outskirts of Paris. UK units are fleeing from Maginot line behind Paris

June 1940: The first and last french tank is destroyed. Frontline moves towards Paris. Heavy airfights.

April 1940: Finally Poland surrenders. Heavy fights at the french border. Allies have reestablished a strong frontline.

Turn 3: Both Atlantic subs destroyed, but first they damaged carrier Courageous. Breakthrough in France. Allies reinforce polish troops.

Lowlands surrendered turn 2. Atlantik subs sink british battleship. Fight in Denmark and Poland goes on.