Terif

Ok, here some lessons : - read the manual and the tables at the end (especially the terrain value table): Then you will see which terrains provide defence bonuses against airstrikes. E.g. fortresses have a defence bonus of 4, mountains 2, cities 1 etc... - defence bonuses and entrenchment reduces the damage of the defender when attacked directly (when HQ supported you can say roughly: every point reduces the damage by 1). So it is seldomly a good idea to attack an entrenched unit in a city, mountain or fortress. - Anti-air (UK starts with Lv1) does not reduce the damage for the defender, it only increases the damage for the attacker/interceptor - so at the start with Jets lv 0 (i.e. average damage of 3 when HQ supported), simply forget it to attack an enemy AF in a city, you will make nearly no damage. Only if you know it is below str 5 and you have 3-4 AFs in striking range this is an option...still a very expensive one - when Jet levels increase, this changes. With Jets lv 2 (better 3 or higher) it becomes possible to kill AFs in cities (damage reduction is still the same, but the attacker makes more damage - so damage is e.g. not 0-1 any more, but 2-3/attack). - More important: with these jet levels an enemy airfleet will be killed after 2 airfights (good chance at lv 2, nearly for sure with lv 3+). So e.g. Germany entrenches its airfleets in Paris + Bordeaux to defend France against D-day and to use the AA bonus by forcing interceptions. Allies can kill them easily if the german airfleets really attack: they get intercepted, but with jets lv 3+ they stay usually above str 5 - so in the counterattack Allies only need to force the AFs in Paris/Bordeaux to intercept and they will be destroyed. In case the first fight reduced them below 5 so they dont intercept: attack them directly. With higher jet levels allied AFs do enough damage to kill it with 1-2 airstrikes even when entrenched (Paris 2-3 strikes). But first make sure no other enemy AFs will intercept or your own AFs will not return from the mission (until lv 2/3 it is possible to survive this attack even when beeing intercepted, cause the defender in the city has already been weakened and will not do so much damage any more, but at higher Jet levels only attack when no enemy air can intercept any more) BTW: 10 axis airfleets in Russia means he has nothing in the west - so invade and conquer France/LC/Spain etc. Never buy russian airfleets in such a situation, thats just pointless, they will get slaughtered. Buy ground units and delay his advances. If Axis shifts its AFs west, build up as Russia and go in the offensive while preparing for defence in the west. It´s the old game: one front is offensive and the other one defensive. By moving its units, usually Axis decides if the offensive part is in the east or west. If one side can be offensive at both fronts - then they are in the advantage and most likely the other side has already lost the war (except it is because they just build up or set a trap ) [ August 03, 2004, 09:04 AM: Message edited by: Terif ]

Ok, one last chance - we can make an appointment via ICQ But I don´t think the RAF unit would have made any difference. If I would not have killed it, France would have fallen one turn earlier. And with your stranded UK units you bought another turn, when you had evacuated in time, Germany would have conquered Paris another turn earlier. In the end there would have been not much difference, except that both sides would have been equally stronger by not doing these things - so perhaps preventing a Sealion, but in the long term still no chance for Allies .

Yes, you are "the air-king", but air is not king in SC . A mistake many players make - and that´s why they loose their games. Only if the opponent thinks and tries the same an air only strategy can work (for more background information search in the forum, I have already written some threads concerning this issue...) Yes, my 5 losses were all as Allies. 3 of them when I tried the Spain gambit against a prepared Veteran - not a good idea obviously, but fun . The one I lost against you was in the early days with low bids: Bid was 410 UK, 410 USA and 410 Russia !! Today minimum bid is 5200 mpps - not 1230 like at that time In my last game against Rambo he also had anti-air lv 4 and Jets lv 2 vs UK/USA at Lv 1 Jets/AA and Russia at 0. Russia conquered the Balkans without a single airfleet and Germany lost many AFs in the west...air is really no king and anti-air is nice to have but no winner... However after 48 Victories against you there is really no need to prove anything ...and you know that I will never play you again after what happened between us no matter how much you provoke me - so let it rest in peace :cool:

Hmm, seems you wrote the AAR at the same time as I did and started a new thread My AAR (copied below): http://www.battlefront.com/discuss/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=18;t=003787 BTW: - Poland and Denmark surrendered at the end of Axis turn 4 (not 3), therefore you had some time to entrench in LC . - When Denmark or Poland surrender like normal, this boosts italian readiness by 5% each, so it will nearly always join in Axis turn 4 (not 5 )like here (it was November 26, 1939). - France lasting till january 41 ? Sorry,no way with this strategy and average luck - France surrendered August 25, 1940 ; without sacrificing carriers and AF, France would even have fallen 2 turns earlier, with average luck at the beginning again 1 turn earlier... - After France: 3 turns until Norway + Vichy are converted, + 2 turns Sweden: plenty of time for Axis, they have more than one year + decreased readiness due to LC/Iraq... HQ + some airfleets to Tobruk = certain death for all defenders in Egypt + Iraq. 1 carrier cut off near Algier, would have been destroyed within the next 2 turns, no chance to escape. - Sorry, but your situation after France could´nt be much worser than it was here: 2 ships (1 of them damaged), 2 nearly dead carriers, 1 AF + Monti was everything that was left to protect England, USA/Russia at very low readiness...; Axis only lost one army - all other units except the AFs were at 2-3 stars. Simply not the slightest chance any more in a long game or against a Sealion... -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Allies got 200 UK, 1000 USA, 4000 Russia bonus mpps. This game is to prove that the LC gambit T1 strategy doesnt work when axis player knows what he does For further informations have a look at: http://www.battlefront.com/discuss/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=18;t=003783;p=1 Ok, here the detailed AAR after the game is finished – Avatar surrendered when Paris had been conquered in August 1940 – the normal time frame against an aggressive french defence and UK nearly lost everything (despite Allies having luck above average) - like expected. Axis turn 1: Denmark attacked, polish army in the north destroyed, units operated west, subs raiding Allies attack LC and occupy the 4 LC hexes. Axis turn 2: With my standard opening strategy I would have had 12 damage vs the french army SE of Brussel (only 80-90% chance to destroy it). Since I knew what was coming I dedided to improve the odds closer to 100%....i.e. operating Rundstedt west and placing army + AF in cities. So expected damage to the army is: LC corps (extra supply ordered via port, i.e. transport + unload) 1 damage (river); army 2 damage (river); corps 1 (river); tank 3 (Brussel) + 3 AFs with 2 damage each. Even if they would take maximum damage of 4 in the intercepts, they still have 2 damage vs the army with the higher supply/command. So in summary it is 13 damage. With this variant Poland needs in average 0.5 turns longer than with my standard strategy, but thats worth it to increase chances close to 100% in the west. With a more optimized strategy even 14 damage are possible, but this would delay Poland another turn – and thats not worth it... French army (str. 9) SE of Brussel destroyed, Germany still had a corps and an AF as reserve (i.e. German forces did one point damage below average). Another polish corps destroyed, Denmark is very lucky and still at str. 7 – most axis attacks did minimum damage until now. Both UK AFs intercepting from London supported by Monti. Report shows UK disbanded 2 ships to buy him. 2 french corps move into LC and strengthen the line. Axis turn 3: Again not much damage in Denmark, so Germany decides to kill a french corps in LC instead. LC corps moves into the gap. 2 more polish ground units and the polish AF destroyed. Axis turn 4: Axis subs found in the Atlantic, UK cruiser damaged (2 ships, 2 carriers attacking – the french fleet moved towards Med and LC). Subs attack both carriers and do 3 damage each before they are sunk in the next turn. German air busy with Denmark, so no kill in the west this turn. Denmark surrenders. Finally every single polish unit is destroyed, Warsaw captured and Poland surrendered. Until now Allies had some luck with Denmark and Poland – they usually surrender one turn earlier, i.e. Paris would fall also one turn earlier – in the following turns luck was distributed more even. Due to LC gambit and moving the Med units, Italy joins at the end of the turn. One turn earlier than Avatar expected and he is not prepared (southern France is open). Therefore we make a cease fire in Italy, so he has his extra turn and can establish his planed defence line. Axis turn 5: Allies DoW Iraq and UK occupies both oilfields. Readiness: USA –14%, Russia 36%. Germany buys 2 additional AFs with the Denmark/Poland plunder. Following turns: Now every turn at least 3 AFs can fly airstrikes while 1-2 AFs are reinforcing. UK AF in London forces intercepts whenever possible to use the anti-air bonus. Once they try to kill a german AF positioned in LC – without success. Since Germany only used 2 HQs they also only were able to bring 5 ground units into battle. Italian units filled the gaps. A french cruiser is bombarding outside LC, 3 french ships in the Med together with the Med carrier and 4 UK ships are bombarding too. Italian Navy stays in its winter ports east of Rome... After a while 2 UK carrier move towards LC, but Luftwaffe strikes first. Unfortunately they survive 3 airstrikes, but probably they had been repaired (subs damaged them both to str. 7). UK only was able to build one additional corps for France – all other mpps went most probably into the air war. Since Germany killed 1-2 Korps/turn and UK couldnt provide ground units, Allies had to retreat from time to time to avoid breakthroughs. Finally Germany reached the outskirts of Paris in July 1940 (2 hexes next to Paris conquered). Allies counterattack and kill one of the 2 german armies there, but only with an airstrike of an already damaged UK airfleet near London. That´s the expected opportunity: Germany kills the UK AF in the counterattack with direct airstrikes. Meanwhile Allies disbanded 3 french ships to be able to afford enough corps for the defence. When Germany reached Paris, the italian fleet moved out of ports in the Med and sunk a british battleship. In the following naval battle Italy lost 2 battleships, but UK also lost 2 ships, the Med carrier damaged and cut off by corps transports. Earlier in the war intelligence reported 2 further UK ships moving towards Alexandria – so they had no chance to escape any more too. August 25, 1940: Paris conquered and France surrenders. Allies did not evacuate despite Germany was already in the vicinity of Paris since 3 turns, had 2 armies next to it and 5 AFs in striking range. So no UK unit escaped, Brest and Bordeaux not occupied. In the end UK had only 2 ships left (one of them damaged) near England, 2 nearly dead carriers and one AF in London + Monti. (the cut off ships in the Med were as good as lost...). Iraq now only was a nice birthday present for Axis....plenty of time (USA-14%; Russia 36%) to prepare Barbarossa – or to do a Sealion (no UK defences left). Avatar surrendered when France surrendered. Conclusion: This LC gambit turn 1 lite strategy is only a normal LC gambit with all its disadvantages, but without the advantages (it doesn´t give a good defence line behind the Rhine and Allies don´t get the plunder). It is extremely short term oriented (especially together with Iraq) and in the end it is only a huge disadvantage against a good and experienced axis player. Nevertheless, like with the normal LC gambit it is possible to kill new/unexperienced/uncautious/extremely unlucky players with this strategy. But like against the normal LC gambit: some training and everyone can win against it without much problems – long term it is a sure winner for Axis, if they reach Paris. [ August 03, 2004, 05:27 AM: Message edited by: Terif ]

Ok, the game is played and Avatars strategy totally failed like expected and he surrendered when Paris fell in August 1940 with nothing left except 1 AF, Monti, 2 nearly dead carriers and 2 ships (1 of them damaged).... AAR: http://www.battlefront.com/cgi-bin/bbs/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=18&t=003787 Avatars comments: http://www.battlefront.com/cgi-bin/bbs/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=18&t=003789 [ August 03, 2004, 05:05 AM: Message edited by: Terif ]

Allies got 200 UK, 1000 USA, 4000 Russia bonus mpps. This game is to prove that the LC gambit T1 strategy doesnt work when axis player knows what he does For further informations have a look at: http://www.battlefront.com/discuss/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=18;t=003783;p=1 Ok, here the detailed AAR after the game is finished – Avatar surrendered when Paris had been conquered in August 1940 – the normal time frame against an aggressive french defence and UK nearly lost everything (despite Allies having luck above average) - like expected. Axis turn 1: Denmark attacked, polish army in the north destroyed, units operated west, subs raiding Allies attack LC and occupy the 4 LC hexes. Axis turn 2: With my standard opening strategy I would have had 12 damage vs the french army SE of Brussel (only 80-90% chance to destroy it). Since I knew what was coming I dedided to improve the odds closer to 100%....i.e. operating Rundstedt west and placing army + AF in cities. So expected damage to the army is: LC corps (extra supply ordered via port, i.e. transport + unload) 1 damage (river); army 2 damage (river); corps 1 (river); tank 3 (Brussel) + 3 AFs with 2 damage each. Even if they would take maximum damage of 4 in the intercepts, they still have 2 damage vs the army with the higher supply/command. So in summary it is 13 damage. With this variant Poland needs in average 0.5 turns longer than with my standard strategy, but thats worth it to increase chances close to 100% in the west. With a more optimized strategy even 14 damage are possible, but this would delay Poland another turn – and thats not worth it... French army (str. 9) SE of Brussel destroyed, Germany still had a corps and an AF as reserve (i.e. German forces did one point damage below average). Another polish corps destroyed, Denmark is very lucky and still at str. 7 – most axis attacks did minimum damage until now. Both UK AFs intercepting from London supported by Monti. Report shows UK disbanded 2 ships to buy him. 2 french corps move into LC and strengthen the line. Axis turn 3: Again not much damage in Denmark, so Germany decides to kill a french corps in LC instead. LC corps moves into the gap. 2 more polish ground units and the polish AF destroyed. Axis turn 4: Axis subs found in the Atlantic, UK cruiser damaged (2 ships, 2 carriers attacking – the french fleet moved towards Med and LC). Subs attack both carriers and do 3 damage each before they are sunk in the next turn. German air busy with Denmark, so no kill in the west this turn. Denmark surrenders. Finally every single polish unit is destroyed, Warsaw captured and Poland surrendered. Until now Allies had some luck with Denmark and Poland – they usually surrender one turn earlier, i.e. Paris would fall also one turn earlier – in the following turns luck was distributed more even. Due to LC gambit and moving the Med units, Italy joins at the end of the turn. One turn earlier than Avatar expected and he is not prepared (southern France is open). Therefore we make a cease fire in Italy, so he has his extra turn and can establish his planed defence line. Axis turn 5: Allies DoW Iraq and UK occupies both oilfields. Readiness: USA –14%, Russia 36%. Germany buys 2 additional AFs with the Denmark/Poland plunder. Following turns: Now every turn at least 3 AFs can fly airstrikes while 1-2 AFs are reinforcing. UK AF in London forces intercepts whenever possible to use the anti-air bonus. Once they try to kill a german AF positioned in LC – without success. Since Germany only used 2 HQs they also only were able to bring 5 ground units into battle. Italian units filled the gaps. A french cruiser is bombarding outside LC, 3 french ships in the Med together with the Med carrier and 4 UK ships are bombarding too. Italian Navy stays in its winter ports east of Rome... After a while 2 UK carrier move towards LC, but Luftwaffe strikes first. Unfortunately they survive 3 airstrikes, but probably they had been repaired (subs damaged them both to str. 7). UK only was able to build one additional corps for France – all other mpps went most probably into the air war. Since Germany killed 1-2 Korps/turn and UK couldnt provide ground units, Allies had to retreat from time to time to avoid breakthroughs. Finally Germany reached the outskirts of Paris in July 1940 (2 hexes next to Paris conquered). Allies counterattack and kill one of the 2 german armies there, but only with an airstrike of an already damaged UK airfleet near London. That´s the expected opportunity: Germany kills the UK AF in the counterattack with direct airstrikes. Meanwhile Allies disbanded 3 french ships to be able to afford enough corps for the defence. When Germany reached Paris, the italian fleet moved out of ports in the Med and sunk a british battleship. In the following naval battle Italy lost 2 battleships, but UK also lost 2 ships, the Med carrier damaged and cut off by corps transports. Earlier in the war intelligence reported 2 further UK ships moving towards Alexandria – so they had no chance to escape any more too. August 25, 1940: Paris conquered and France surrenders. Allies did not evacuate despite Germany was already in the vicinity of Paris since 3 turns, had 2 armies next to it and 5 AFs in striking range. So no UK unit escaped, Brest and Bordeaux not occupied. In the end UK had only 2 ships left (one of them damaged) near England, 2 nearly dead carriers and one AF in London + Monti. (the cut off ships in the Med were as good as lost...). Iraq now only was a nice birthday present for Axis....plenty of time (USA-14%; Russia 36%) to prepare Barbarossa – or to do a Sealion (no UK defences left). Avatar surrendered when France surrendered. Conclusion: This LC gambit turn 1 lite strategy is only a normal LC gambit with all its disadvantages, but without the advantages (it doesn´t give a good defence line behind the Rhine and Allies don´t get the plunder). It is extremely short term oriented (especially together with Iraq) and in the end it is only a huge disadvantage against a good and experienced axis player. Nevertheless, like with the normal LC gambit it is possible to kill new/unexperienced/uncautious/extremely unlucky players with this strategy. But like against the normal LC gambit: some training and everyone can win against it without much problems – long term it is a sure winner for Axis, if they reach Paris.

We will see... A game is scheduled for tomorrow - Avatar has a good motivation, thats worth a game Problem is, Allies have only a small chance to stop Axis in France if they really use everything there (including carriers). Otherwise Axis can walk through like usual or even easier with Italy on its side and the allied extended front in LC . In this aspect there is no real difference to a normal aggressive french defence with UK air/HQ. So if Allies want to stop Axis in France, they have to sacrifice their carriers - if they cant stop them, UK is too weak after these battles to prevent a Sealion. If they dont sacrifice them, Axis can conquer France nearly in the normal time frame (against an aggressive french defence) and then they have endless time (no USA, Russia delayed) to prepare for Barbarossa and UK still lost a lot of mpps during the battles - and not loosing any UK air is unlikely, Germany has enough AFs to kill the units that are not protected by London when they moved them in striking range - without fighting against the carriers, they can have at least 5 AFs. Italy is not neutralized, they can provide corps for the LC front, so Germany doesnt need own corps to fill gaps and its 2 HQs really support only the heavy combat units. Yes, Germany might have higher air losses than UK, but they have more mpps for repairs, so it is no problem. Without a HQ, France can not resist on the ground and they will loose their units one after the other witout doing much damage to the german units (perhaps a strength point here and there). Yes, at the start they can build a 2 hex frontline, but chances are good they can not replace the losses fast enough . Maybe UK can build sometimes a corps, but then Germany also had not so much losses so it can increase it´s air power instead of reinforcing - so building corps is up to France: 1 corps/turn, losses should be higher after turn 5-6 when Germany can bring more ground units into battle. So in the end: perhaps Ialy can not help very much at the start in France, but the french mpps also dont help the Allies cause they will be destroyed without much damage in return. BTW: Longterm Iraq is a nice birthday present to Axis. Allies have no mpps to send additional units to Africa for a defence during the french campaign - + Italy is building up..- so after the fall of France, Egypt + Iraq will soon provide their mpps to Axis .

Hmm, this strategy is not really new - other players already used it, especially in the old times where UK got a lot more mpps than today (300-400 were possible when the 1:8 and 1:10 systems were still in use) and they could achieve Montgomery without disbanding navy (including LC gambit turn 1...). No need to demonstrate it again - I already did it at least half a dozen times (also when LC turn 1 was successful and Allies had the plunder too)...Not to forget I prefer good and long games where I know they will not be over within the next 10 turns Ok, to get into details why this strategy will fail : Economically: UK gets 135 +30 (Iraq)=165 mpp/turn France 115 mpp on the other side: Germany 130+16+30(LC)+10(Iraq)=186 mpp/turn Italy 115 mpp So it´s Allies 280 mpp/turn vs Axis 301 mpp/turn Germany has more than enough land units, so it can use all mpps for airbattles (even more mpps than UK). Tactically: After Allies attacked LC, Germany can move its tank into Brussel and attack the army SE of Brussel from 4 sides + 3 AFs. In average they will make a damage of ~14 strength points when positioned correct, so only with extremely high luck the french army will survive...in the next turn Germany has 2 good attack hexes, so now at the beginning it can kill one enemy unit/turn without much problems. Strategically: UK uses all its mpps for airfleets/Montgomery - so there are no additional corps for France. France can nearly buy only one corps/turn, but one corps is the minimum loss/turn for Allies. Usually Germany can even breakthrough the thin line with a fast and decissive attack, cause with the extended front at the beginning there is only a one hex allied frontline. Maybe Allies can hold the line in LC with a lot of luck and good battle rolls. But even then Axis will advance hex by hex towards Paris - after Poland/Denmark surrendered, destroying 2 corps/turn, speed increasing when the front is widening... When Allies move their naval units in the Med, they can perhaps prevent the Italians from taking it over - but instead the german subs will be raiding in the Atlantic (not to forget: some ships are needed to protect the carriers in the battle of France + disbanding some of them). There are not enough ships to do everything. In this case Italy can also use all its ressources for France and help Germany with some cannon fodder units. Germany will not get the plunder from LC (~300 mpp), but they dont need a third HQ in this case (saves ~480 mpp) and can buy an AF instead. AND: USA and Russia dont like DOWs at LC and Iraq. I.e. USA is out of the war for a long time and Russia also delayed (no Axis DoW at LC). So its no real problem if Axis needs some more time to get to Paris. Summary: - In this strategy Axis gets more mpps/turn than Allies - they will reach a good starting position west of the rhine river in their first counterattack (or with very bad luck in the 2nd) - after this they can kill 1-2 units/turn + can afford the airbattles with the royal airforce + carriers, Allies should not be able to build enough units to close the gaps (then war will be over soon..). Even if they can, Axis will move closer to Paris with each turn and finally conquer it. - at this time Allies will have spent all their mpps for France and most likely will have lost some carriers (+eventually some ships in the Med battles and/or UK AFs near London). Perfect starting situation for a Sealion. Or in a long game: USA is out of the war until Barbarossa, UK has to recover, so there will be no second front and Axis still has enough time to prepare for Barbarossa (+ a one front war...) even if they need till spring 1941 for France. [ August 01, 2004, 08:35 PM: Message edited by: Terif ]

Summary of the last year (June 1940 until June 6, 1941): - Vichy (1 turn), Sweden (3 turns), Spain (2 turns) and Yugoslavia (2 turns) converted, all 3 minors(Hun,Rom,Bul) joined. BTW Kuni: speed is not always good - I prefer to need 3 turns in Sweden (with bad luck), but to save a lot of mpps. It´s no problem to take it guaranteed in 2 (or even 1) turns, but it will cost Axis a lot more mpps to do so - Alexandria taken without resistance, 2 allied corps in Beirut acted as training center for the italian navy and some ground units that are needed later for Irak anyway - until they got destroyed . - Gibraltar corps destroyed, rock occupied - Bergen retaken - a UK transport tested the defence of Brest shortly before the attack on Spain and got destroyed by german airfleets. to be continued...(probably tuesday)

Avatar: I am sure your strategy works against every unexperienced player and even against too aggressive veteran players - but not when axis player is cautious, knows what he´s doing and more important: doesnt surrender too early. The problem with your strategy is, that it is extremely short term oriented. If you can crush Axis in France you have won, if Axis reach Paris (even if it takes until 1941...)you have lost. Allies will never recover from all those losses and disbanding their UK ships (and a Sealion is also a very attractive option...). We already played two games with you as Allies were you surrendered after 7 and 11 turns . And a lot of other players already tried similar extremely aggressive french defence strategies against me - it never worked . However, you are expert for an extremely aggressive french defence and obviously love the short games (in contrary to me ) - I am sure you will win (and have won) with this (or a similar) strategy against everyone who has no endurance and surrenders after the first losses . But when axis player continues to fight and knows what he is doing Allies will most likely loose. At this stage of the war Axis has enough units to crush every resistance on the ground - it might be expensive and will need some time (maybe until 1941), but Paris will fall and with this strategy thats also the end of the UK.

July 28, 1940: Norway converted. Italians take Suez, an allied bomber attacking italian transports from Gibraltar gets intercepted - no losses for the german fighters. Defenceless allied bombers without escorts: perfect target practice for the german fighter pilots . Allied commander Kuniworth sues for a cease fire - fightings will continue in approximately 2 days.

June 30, 1940: Bordeux taken, last british unit in France destroyed. UK air stays at Malta and receives some interception hits.

June 16, 1940: France is no more - curiously Bordeaux is UK held but not Brest. One last UK corps south of Paris will be killed next turn. Ireland surrendered to Allies. Italian units spot a UK AF at Malta, german air supported by Rundstedt appears in Sicily.

May 26, 1940: German units reach the outskirts of Paris. Italy will join next turn. Paris entrenchment reduced to 1 by german air - should fall next turn. Ireland corps leave Dublin to die a heroic death...

Axis turn 6: Germany slowly advancing towards Paris - Allies use a corps defence, i.e. not much damage for both sides.

Axis turn 5: Fortuna prevents the onslaught . After two army attacks all 3 german AFs do only minimum damage, so the french army in the bloodhex survives at str. 1 - but next turn Germany can send 5 AFs into battle .

Axis turn 4: The last polish unit has been destroyed - Poland surrenders together with Denmark. 3 UK ships slightly damaged in the Atlantic, subs should be sunk next allied turn. Only minor damage to french armies at the border - not enough to kill them - so German air moves forward in striking range of Paris instead of attacking.

Axis turn 3: - 2 french armies in France slightly damaged - Denmark corps destroyed, will surrender next turn - Warsaw captured, Poland continues fighing with 3 half dead units - french cruiser sunk in the Atlantic by german subs - Manstein called to duty

Axis turn 2: LC surrendered, 3 polish units destroyed and Warsaw from 4 sides surrounded - will fall next turn. France disbanded AF + 2 ships and bought some corps for the mpps.

First axis turn: Denmark DoW, subs raiding, no breakthrough in Poland, units operated west.

Ok, here starts the challenge game Kuniworth (Allies) receives a bonus of 100 UK, 1000 USA and 7000 mpps Russia.

Hmm...I dont know if you would be the greatest player when winning with such a bid... ...but we can play a game with you as Allies and 100 UK, 1000 US and 7000 USSR mpp (When USSR gets so much mpps, its not wise to give UK more than 100 mpps) I will have a look for you at ICQ or we can make an appointment, e.g. I have time: Tuesday: 11 am - 8 pm european time (GMT+1) Wednesday + Thursday: 11 am - 6 pm or at the weekend...

Hmm...I dont know if you would be the greatest player when winning with such a bid... ...but we can play a game with you as Allies and 100 UK, 1000 US and 7000 USSR mpp (When USSR gets so much mpps, its not wise to give UK more than 100 mpps) I will have a look for you at ICQ or we can make an appointment, e.g. I have time: Tuesday: 11 am - 8 pm european time (GMT+1) Wednesday + Thursday: 11 am - 6 pm or at the weekend...

And its the bitter end now... May 11, 1941: Allies surrender unconditionally. Gibraltar taken, UK AF in spanish africa destroyed, no allied ship escaped the slaughter. First german transports approaching the british Isles....

April 13, 1941: The suicide continues....1 german airfleet in Sicily lost, 7 UK ships destroyed, heavily damaged and the rest cut off from a retreat possibility. Last british battleship attacking Brussel damaged by the german fleet, corps transport near Kiel sunk, corps transport in Gibraltar sunk, another one cut off near Algier...