OGF Keller

Bump!!! Hey, still looking for testers on this one!! Played it again -- really this is an unbelievably chaotic, carnage laden brawl... Some screen shots to whet your appetite... A sig33b blasting away at a cowering SMG squad inside the courtyard (by the way the Russians are winning at this point) And in the SAME turn, a SMG squad gets fried as it tries to advance into one of the west side courtyard buildings... I'm telling you, it's REALLY wild!! [ December 14, 2002, 08:04 PM: Message edited by: OGF Keller ]

I managed to achieve a minor victory in this one as Axis against the AI; but as others have noted, a competent human adversary would make it virtually impossible. AAR at the bottom. This scenario – which really is an attack and not a probe in the literal sense of these words – really underscores the unrealistic nature of time constraints in the CM world. I just finished testing a very nice infantry attack scenario called Klein Kargarlyk, based on a real event; this was a 40+ turn affair. I found out later that the actual attack took SIX hours!! And you know, that makes sense. Why? Because when you are assaulting a position, especially if you know the opponent isn’t going to get reinforcements, it is more important to be patient, force the enemy to reveal his positions, and then bring a coherent body of troops to bear on the revealed positions. And then keep on doing it, slowly, methodically. In other words, what’s the rush? No competent company or battalion commander would force his troops to take foolish risks to save, say, ten minutes or even a half hour on the assault. What I did in Cemetery Hill to mimic a professional commander is this: --Move small bodies of troops to CONTACT through the trees. --Once the enemy is contacted bring additional squads and heavy weapons, including light armor to the same position. --Pour superior fire down into just a few (some times just one) enemy positions until they break (even if other enemy in other positions reveal themselves). --Rinse and repeat. So what happened in my scenario was I had a whole bunch of troops massed at the edge of the woods, expending lots of ammo -- even the field gun was out of ammo on turn 21. Then at turn 20, with the Russians still at the crossroads, but depleted, and the flag still theirs, I did the bum’s rush into the trenches with around 6 squads supported by the Skdfz 10 (with the company commander riding) and PSWs. As you can see by the screen shot below, I got to the trenches with some squads intact, including a flamethrower who toasted up some Ivans. Minor victory. But this headlong rush as “time” was running out is in my mind COMPLETELY unrealistic. A competent commander would never do that…it’s the game that forces you to do that. There are only four instances on the small scale battlefield where short-term time intervals make a large difference. 1. Getting to an optimal defensive position, in which case you are likely to have no resistance until you get there 2. Getting to an optimal start line on the attack 3. Counterattacks to re-claim a key position or to trap an understrength opponent 4. Breaking out of encirclement—there may be just a brief window of time where an escape path is available Other than that, patience and clear-headed thinking will win the day. Screen shot of final positions, and AAR below. [ December 14, 2002, 05:39 PM: Message edited by: OGF Keller ]

Let's take a look at it. Send it my way. karl-keller@attbi.com

Well, I have shelved my Seelow Heights efforts for a new absorbing fictional scenario – an urban meeting engagement brawl, set in November 42 in a city much like Stalingrad. Called “Courtyard of Death” it’s infantry/pioneer heavy, with a few assault guns for support. Around 2600 points, very balanced. It’s at 40 turns variable now – it may be too long, but the time may be needed to make sure there is lots of death. Anyway, the objective is to capture and hold a C-shaped, two story heavy courtyard building, more or less in the center of the map, about a block square. Think about it as Communist Party Headquarters – with all the inflated (yet tactially useless) prestige that winning and holding such a building would have to the respective adversaries. My intent was to create a back and forth see saw battle and and a combination of street ambushes with close-in floor to floor combat, generally resulting in huge quantities of casualties on both sides. In other words, a whole bunch of compact carnage, though with some opportunities for flanking movements and indirect approaches – if your opponent isn’t TOO clever. When the battle is over, I want the players, no matter who wins, to say “Oh, migod!” See a screen shot below for a sense of what awaits — Ivan didn’t say “Urrah” after this little ambush, though note all the dead Fritz’s around, who a few turns earlier had ventured into street and were blasted by a Russian assault gun. And, yes, Virginia, you can bring your flamethrowers to bear in this engagement. I’ve done a couple of dry runs myself against the AI, though this is really meant for 2-person play. The best tests would be TCP/IP, but if anyone wants to run through against the AI, feel free. I will be doing some tweaking over the weekend, and should have it ready on Monday. Let me know if you want to take a stab at it.

Yes, exactly. Flamethrowers are good for three things: 1. Routing out a squad which is already sighted and pinned. 2. Setting a building or area on fire for tactical purposes 3. Ambush. The ambush is truly rare, but it DOES happens. See the screenshot below, from a Stalingrad scenario I am designing. Ivan is moving along what he thinks is a nice narrow street empty of Fritz (note all the dead German bodies lying around) when he runs right by a flamethrower, in a building on the other side, who simply incinerates him. I am sure this was rare in the rural/steppe world, but in the city? or in Stalingrad? I bet it happened a lot more than one might think. [ December 13, 2002, 12:24 AM: Message edited by: OGF Keller ]

OK, I have finished my first ever CMBB effort, "Hube's HQ Attacked" scenario, and am moving onto the next one -- Seelow Heights!! Well, a portion of it anyway that I have identified. Some questions for the more experienced designers out there: --What web sources, if any, do you recommend for acquiring topographical maps, recent or historical? --Has anyone used the available sattelite imaging to help them? --Should I be careful using the sattelite stuff, given any changes to the heights area over the last 60 years?? --I have some books in my Library, but are there any accounts of this action that folks especially recommend?? Thanks.

Thanks to General Tacitus, WWB, Bruceov, MrSprk for testing this. Special thanks to Berlichtingen for the detailed OOB on a Panzer division HQ group. This made unit selection very easy AND realistic. And thanks to the most recent posters for volunteering -- I think, with some modifications as suggested by testers above, "Hube's HQ Attacked" is ready to go. However, I have two other scenarios in the works, so I will let you know as soon as they are ready. One of the new ones is VERY ambitious.

Also, you can write your briefing in Word, and save it a .txt file. Then open it in Notepad. In Notepad, you have an option to do "wordwrap" under edit. Uncheck that and make sure each of your paragraphs have no carriage returns in them. Then toggle wordwrap on, and your text will fit your screen nicely. Oh, one more trick. You know the standard opening Title: Hube's HQ Attacked Type: Allied Attack and so on?? For a while there, I was completely flummoxed on how to get the Title words, Type words, and so forth, lined up nicely as though they were tabbed. In notepad, you can "trick" the program into lining up each of your opening briefing lines such as lining up the word "Hube's" with the word "Allied" in my example above. To do this you make sure they are the same number of SPACES from the left hand column: you can increase the number of spaces using the spacebar, decrease by using the back space. Thus, you don't line up by sight, or by tabs (there are no tabs in notepad) but rather by making sure that the each left most letter of the Title, Type, etc. are an equal number of characters from the far left margin. So in Notepad, it will look all jagged, but when you bring it into CM, it will line up as though it were laid out with tabs.

Ooops!!! Apologies. You're Wyatt, of course. OPs may be a bit too much right now, but I will try it at some point.

So, Bill where is this scenario?? It's not in the pack, from what I can see.

Here's my AAR screenshot from The Library --AI -- playing the AXIS against the AI. As you can see, I had a 2 to 1 kill ratio, and a 1.5 to 1 overall casualty ratio, and took some prisoners. And I did manage to "rescue" some of the trapped recon guys. But not getting the flag meant no victory, even though The Library building changed hands twice. I probably should have taken some more risks with my spearhead infantry; I think I am just naturally too cautious on the attack. Anyway, I highly recommend this scenario to cut your teeth on. See my post on City Tactics, which was generic enough not to require a *Spoiler" warning, but very much inspired by the challenges this particular scenario presented. http://www.battlefront.com/cgi-bin/bbs/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=7;t=001359 [ December 03, 2002, 09:23 PM: Message edited by: OGF Keller ]

Four questions that relate specifically to a scenario I have just about finished, and to a couple of Stalingrad ones that I may want to tackle. 1. As far as I know, a player can walk or drive off any unit from the map, and once gone, it's GONE. Question: is it possible in a scenario design to disallow/prevent the units from exiting the map under any or all circumstances? 2. Assuming a player decides to have units exit -- for example, running away from an attack, but they don't or can't exit through areas that gain bonus points. What happens to such units and their points on the AAR? Are they considered destroyed or otherwise "lost" and therefore count against that player? Can you "penalize" such "flight from attack?" 2. While you can lock units into place at setup, once you hit GO, you can then move your units in the first turn. Is it possible in a scenario design to LOCK your units for one (i.e., the first) unit turn?? 3. In the Map Editor you can increase or decrease the size of your map, but from what I can tell you can only do it on the North (height) and the West (width). Is there any way to adjust the map size using the South and East edges?? [ December 03, 2002, 12:41 PM: Message edited by: OGF Keller ]

Well, I've started cycling through SP pack and did the The Library (as Axis against the AI version). Got a draw, though I did manage to "rescue" a few of the cut-off Recon troops. A nice scenario to cut your teeth on. Some things I have learned about making attacks in chaos of Stalingrad streets: --With infantry, command cohesion is even MORE critical than in "standard" scenarios. Keep those platoons organized and together!! --Bounding and overwatch are critical. Get your spearheads forward, hide, and then move the next ranks along, Keep your HQs behind and in command control by the time the next bound is due. --There is NO excuse for not using cover on the advance -- craters, partial building walls, etc. But weave in and out using the small patches of open ground between the craters and buildings. --Advance...and hide. Advance...and hide. --The temptation is to use the "steathier" Pioneer troops on the spearhead. NO! Keep them, and their VERY valuable satchel charges/molotovs, in quasi-reserve. Use your regular infantry on point, and then bring up the Pioneers to demolish strongpoints -- or that nasty Heavy Tank or SP Gun that ALWAYS seems to pop up when you least expect it. And, yes, you CAN keep your flamethrowers alive and get them into the fight; remember, you can bring them under command of other HQs. --Keep in mind that this is the city, and there is no front line, and the enemy is everywhere. As a result, your objective is uppermost. It's easy to get sidetracked by the odd squad or LMG nest that somehow pops up behind you. Ignore them, and move to your objective AHEAD. --If you can avoid the rubble on the advance, and still be defilade/or in cover as you move forward, avoid it. It will slow you down. But, of course, do use it if it gives you a favorable approach, or a good LOS/field of fire, or a good flanking position. --Remember, it's a PILE of rubble. As a result, you may be defilade to the other side of the pile. This can be very advantageous for advancing infantry, but not so good for your supporting armor, as it may COMPLETELY bloc LOS. I found out this the HARD way, as I moved an AFV around a corner in an effort to engage a squad on the other side of the rubble, which had pinned down one of MY squads, only to find he couldn't shoot past the pile. --Look real close at the spaces between buildings; often you will find enough open ground for faster infantry advances, with walls on either side for cover, AND a path for your AFV's to slice through and outflank defensive positions. --Scope out the second floors for you HMGs; if you have no clear fields of fire to your objectives, get them moving forward on the first turn into buildings that WILL. I would bet most scenario designers start with the HMGs on a second floor, in the proper historical fashion, but it may be the WRONG second floor. As a result, one of your main objectives will be to OWN that further-on multi-story building WITH the field of fire you will need, and own that building EARLY in the battle. You need to get your infantry to win it, even if the victory flag is 150 meters away (a HUGE distance in the ruins). --Close coordination between infantry and AFV's are critical. Infantry on the advance, but follow up VERY close with your AFV's. A properly positioned KV or SP gun, with some good infantry support nearby, can REALLY be difficult to dislodge. Anyway, some of this stuff is basic, but some is not. Hope it's helpful

Well, I've started cycling through SP pack and did the The Library (as Axis against the AI version). Got a draw, though I did manage to "rescue" a few of the cut-off Recon troops. A nice scenario to cut your teeth on. Some things I have learned about making attacks in chaos of Stalingrad streets: --With infantry, command cohesion is even MORE critical than in "standard" scenarios. Keep those platoons organized and together!! --Bounding and overwatch are critical. Get your spearheads forward, hide, and then move the next ranks along with your HQs. --There is NO excuse for not using cover on the advance -- craters, partial building walls, etc. But weave in and out using the small patches of open ground between the craters and buildings. --Advance...and hide. Advance...and hide. --The temptation is to use the "steathier" Pioneer troops on the spearhead. NO! Keep them, and their VERY valuable satchel charges/molotovs, in quasi-reserve. Use your regular infantry on point, and then bring up the Pioneers to demolish strongpoints -- or that nasty Heavy Tank or SP Gun that ALWAYS seems to pop up when you least expect it. And, yes, you CAN keep your flamethrowers alive and get them into the fight; remember, you can bring them under command of other HQs. --Keep in mind, that this is the city, and there is no front line, and the enemy is everywhere. As a result, keep your objective in mind. It's easy to get sidetracked by the odd squad or LMG nest that somehow pops up behind you. Ignore them, and move to your objective AHEAD. --If you can avoid the rubble on the advance, and still be defilade/or in cover as you move forward, avoid it. It will slow you down. But, of course, do use it if it gives you a favorable approach, or a good LOS/field of fire, or a good flanking position. --Remember, it's a PILE of rubble. As a result, you may be defilade to the other side of the pile. This can be very advantageous for advancing infantry, but not so good for your supporting armor, as it may COMPLETELY bloc LOS. I found out this the HARD way, as I moved an AFV around a corner in an effort to engage a squad on the other side of the rubble, which had pinned down one of MY squads, only to find he couldn't shoot past the pile. --Look real close at the spaces between buildings; often you will find enough open ground for faster infantry advances, with walls on either side for cover, AND a path for your AFV's to slice through and outflank defensive positions. --Scope out the second floors for you HMGs; if you have no clear fields of fire to your objectives, get them moving forward on the first turn into buildings that WILL. I would bet most scenario designers start with the HMGs on a second floor, but it may be the WRONG second floor. As a result, one of your main objectives will be to OWN that further-on multi-story building WITH the field of fire you will need, and own that building early in the battle, even if the victory flag is 100 meters away. Close coordination between infantry and AFV's are critical. Infantry on the advance, but follow up VERY close with your AFV's. A properly positioned KV or SP gun, with some good infantry support nearby, can REALLY be difficult to dislodge. Anyway, some of this stuff is basic, but some is not. Hope it's helpful

I finished playing The Library -- AI out of the SP pack last night and, yes, Virginia, it is possible to keep the FTs alive long enough to do some damage. One of my German FTs snuck through the defilade side of the rubble from a Russian squad with their heads down, suppressed by a 2nd floor HMG. Target on the next turn, move to contact across the rubble, and WHOOOOOSH!!! fried Ivan. I only won a draw, but that moment was truly worth it.

Bump. Again, I have one person who will test this, but I would like a few more before I post to the scenario depot. Let me know. It's a real shoot-'em up chaotic scenario, even as the AI is on the attack. And when you play Axis, can you keep the general alive?? By the way, Hube eventually became a corp commander in 6th Army, was summoned by Hitler out of the pocket in '43. At first he refused -- he wanted to stay with his troops. But he was whisked away by an SS guard who came to extract him. Interesting he got Hube out, but not Paulus? Anyway, Hube went to onto to direct the evacuation of Sicily--he was one of the last men out, did another Corps Command in the Eastern front, and was tapped to take over Army Group South in 1944 when he died in a plane crash en route to assuming command. Interesting guy. For more details, see: http://worldatwar.net/biography/h/hube/ [ November 30, 2002, 10:35 PM: Message edited by: OGF Keller ]

Bump [ November 29, 2002, 12:48 PM: Message edited by: OGF Keller ]

Well, is anyone interested in doing this?? This is very much a byte-sized battle, should take under an hour. Now that I have taken it through some iterations, it is probably best played as Germans against the AI. I really tried to create the chaotic atmosphere this attack would have caused. So anybody want to try it, let me know and I will e-mail it to you. Otherwise I will simply post it to the scenario depot in the next week or so. [ November 29, 2002, 12:48 PM: Message edited by: OGF Keller ]

Well, as I mentioned in a earlier thread on German OOB's, I've been working on a new CMBB scenario (my second; the first still needs work). Anyone willing to test it out, let me know and I will send it to you. This is a small battle on a small map, 25 turns fixed, and I think can be played against the AI from either side. I followed Berlichten's OOB for a Panzer division HQ pretty much. This scenario is based on an actual attack on General Han Hube's 16th Panzer HQ group on July 30, 1942. It is described in Anthony Beevor's terrific book, "Stalingrad: The Fateful Siege: 1942-43." The summer of '42 recalled the first days of Barbarossa, particular in the South, as the Germans once again were surrounding and annihilating large Russian formations. Beevor writes: "In this war of movement, the staffs of panzer and motorized divisions seldom bothered to have their headquarters camouflaged. Working in hastily pitched tents through the night on new sets of orders, or checking ammunition and casualty returns, their spirit lamps attracted swarms of insects, not enemy bullets. They caught up on sleep during the day, their heads nodding and rolling around, as the headquarters vehicles moved to the next location... "...General Hans Hube would take a nap in the middle of the battle in front of his staff, inspiring confidence in his unflappability.'Papa Hube' as he was known to his troops, made an immediate impression with his powerful solid face and black artificial hand, having lost an arm in First World War... "....At first light on 30 July, a group of T-34s, having approached under cover of darkness, surprised Hube's headquarters in a village. Officers struggled into their clothes as shells exploded among the headquarters and rear-echelon vehicles. Podewils, the war correspondent then attached to the division, stuck his head outside. 'Not an encouraging sight,' he noted in his diary. 'Vehicles of every sort chaotically trying to overtake each other as fast as they could get away!'" My scenario is designed to be a re-creation of this attack on Hube's headquarters group by the rampaging T-34s. By the way, Hube, after observing this early morning action, said to Podewils: "You'd better go up to the front line; it's safer there." [ November 27, 2002, 03:15 PM: Message edited by: OGF Keller ]

Wow!! I didn't think it was THAT big!! In my first pass, I guessed a half dozen trucks, but just two Kfz's (not 6!), and I thought basically a couple of platoons of infantry at most! And many fewer cars. What does "EM" stand for?? Also, any suggests about representing the buses??

OK, for a scenario I am desinging, I wonder if there is anyone out there who might know the following: --What would be the "standard" contingent for a Heer Panzer DIVISIONAL HQ, i.e., vehicles, HQ platoons, heavy weapons/armor, if any (presumably some radio cars and PSWs at least)?? --What would be the OOB for a COMPANY in a Heer Panzer Division -- i.e, mixture of infantry/armor, etc.?? Thanks for any help you can provide...

Send it my way...I'll give it a test run. karl-keller@attbi.com

This may date me, but years ago, I used to play Panzergrupe Guderian, a divisional level game that I thought was, in its way, incredibly realistic in how it "expressed" itself in the great battles of encirclement in the early war. Of course, these enormous kessels are easier to represent at a divisional/corps/army level, than on the level of company/battalion that is the mise en scene of CMBB. Yet I would love to see something in CMBB that somehow gets that unique feeling of setting up a pincer movement, closing the door, and digesting the contents inside. So, anything out there now...or on the horizon that mimics this experience?? [ November 25, 2002, 03:22 PM: Message edited by: OGF Keller ]

Gordon-- Thanks for that explanation -- yes I AM a dunce (or should I say an inveterate non-reader of documentation). I am downloading and configuring as I write. Thanks too for all your work in setting this up and making it happen. I know you are "retiring" but you do know your efforts are much appreciated here.