Edwin P.

I agree with what you said about the Italians, they had no real Army Group Commanders. This probably explains why all of their leaders are rated 4. That said, Bilbao was one of their more qualified military leaders having commanded their air force for a number of years before the war and being an active pilot. But still lacking a formal military education that comes from attending a military school. Perhaps for Italy you should add a Random HQ option, a player could select a Random HQ for a fixed cost and get a HQ that is randomly rated from 1 to 6. A 1 reflecting a political appointee with no military experience and a 6 indicating a rare military genius that by being in the right place at the right time gets named to head an army group. [ April 23, 2004, 02:59 PM: Message edited by: Edwin P. ]

Can you with the Editor switch Italy and Turkey to recreate WWI with Turkey as an Active Major Nation? Or any thoughts on having "option" for Turkey (and Spain!) as another major nation that is only activated if it is attacked to joins the Allies or Axis (a very rate event in most SC games). Would allow for WWI and Ancient Era Scenarios - Eastern Roman Empire, Persian Empire, Ottoman Empite. etc. [ April 23, 2004, 02:52 PM: Message edited by: Edwin P. ]

Yes, very neat.

In my example the MPP production of Spain and Turkey would only activate if they Joined the Axis or Allies. Much like what happens when the US or Russia joins the Allies or Italy joins the Axis. If they were conquered then the Axis or Allies could use their production as they saw fit. In my example Spain and Turkey would also be allowed to build new units, something which they can't do now. This should not be extended to the other Minor Nations as their production base is too small to support the production or rebuilding of new units. Turkey has 3 cities and one port, while Spain has 3 cities and a resource hex. They also start the game with sizable armies. [ April 23, 2004, 12:34 PM: Message edited by: Edwin P. ]

Currently the Game only supports Production for the UK, USSR, USA, France, Germany and Italy. Adding Spain and Turkey to this list would do three things. 1. Limit the benefit of Turkey or Spain joining the Axis Alliance 2. Be more realistic as their MPPs would go towards building, maintaining and developing their own armed forces and if they conquered any territory the MPP increase would benefit them not their ally. 3. Allow for interesting scenarios such as WWI with Turkey on the Axis Side.

Proposed Diplomacy Affecting Actions and Events The following are diplomatic chit events which the opposing player may prevent by spending his own diplomatic chit to cancel the action. In addition, players can negate or amplify the effects of certain events by using a diplomatic chit. --------------------------------------- IF UK Spends Diplo Chit on Turkey THEN Turkey Annexes Neutral Iraq AND Turkish Allied Alliance % Increases AND Greek Axis Alliance % Increases Turkish troops have entered Iraq to restore order after a military coup against its lawful government with the approval of the British government. --------------------------------------- Britain encourages Turkey to Annex Syria to Stop German Expansion IF France Surrendered AND UK Spends Diplo Chit on Turkey THEN Turkey Annexes Vichy Syria AND Turkish Allied Alliance % Increases AND Greek Axis Alliance % Increases. The Army of Turkey has assumed control of Beruit and Damascus with the consent of the British Government ------------------------------ UK withdraws from the Middle East IF Turkey Annexed Iraq AND Turkey Annexed Vichy Syrian AND UK Controls Suez Canal AND UK Spends Diplo Chit on Turkey THEN Turkey Annexes Suez Canal AND Greek Axis Alliance % Increases British Forces have withdrawn from Egypt and turned over Control of the Suez Canal to the Government of Turkey. ------------------------------------- Turkey Allows British Troops to Transit Straits IF UK Spends Diplomatic Chit on Turkey AND Turkish Axis Alliance % < 50% THEN UK Naval Units Can Move Through Turkish Ports and Straits. The Government of Turkey has granted transit rights to British Naval Forces through the Bospherous Straints ----------------------------------- Allies encourage Turkey to Reclaim Bulgaria IF Allies Spend Diplomatic Chit on Turkey AND Turkey has Annexed Syria AND Turkey has Annexed Iraq AND Germany DOW Hungary AND Germany Attacked Spain THEN Turkey Annexes Neutral Bulgaria AND Neutral Romania Joins the Axis AND Neutral Yugoslavia Joins the Axis AND Neutral Greece Joins the Axis. Turkish Troops have entered the Bulgarian capital of Sofia to protect the Bulgarian people from Axis aggression. Neighboring countries have joined the Axis Alliance seeking protection from imperialist Turkey. --------------------------------------- Axis incite Turkish fears of an expansionist Russia IF Axis spends Diplomatic Chit AND Romania Surrendered to Russia AND Axis Controls France AND Turkey Annexed Bulgaria AND Turkey Annexed Iraq AND Turkey Annexed Vichy Syria THEN Turkey Joins Axis. The Government of Turkey declares war on the Soviet Union to stop communist aggression. ---------------------------------------------- IF Russia DOW Romania AND France Axis Controlled THEN Turkish Axis Alliance % Increases ----------------------------------------------- Axis Diplomats Spy on Local Military Forces IF Axis Spends Diplomatic Chit they can Spot all Allied Forces in Egypt OR Iraq OR OR Turkey OR Iran. (As they had embassies in these countries) ------------------------------------------ Allied Diplomots Spy on Local Military Forces IF Allies Spend Diplomatic Chit they can Spot all Axis forces in Spain OR Egypt OR Iraq OR Turkey OR Finland OR Iran. (As they had embassies in these countries) ------------------------------------------- Axis Diplomats counter American anger on sinking of US Ship IF AXIS Spend Diplomatic Chit on USA AND Event Axis Subs Sink US Ocean Liner Occured THEN US War Readiness Decreases. The German Ambassador has expressed his most profound apologiies for the sinking of the American Ocean Liner and has vowed that those responsible will be punished for his crime. ---------------------------------------------- UK diplomats stir up US Anger at German sinking of US ocean liner IF UK Spends Diplomatic Chit on USA AND Event Axis Subs Sink US Ocean Liner Occured THEN US War Readiness Increases The British Ambassador called on the American Navy to join the British Navy in hunting down and sinking the German forces responsbile for sinking the American civilian ocean liner. --------------------------------------------- Russia secures Manchurian Border from Japanese Attack IF USSR Spends Diplomatic Chit AND Event Japanese take Midway Occured Then Siberian Transfer Option = ON. The Governments of Japan and Russia have signed a Treaty of Friendship and Non-Aggression. ----------------------------------------------- Germany portrays Japan as a Greater Threat to the USA IF Germany spends a diplomatic chit AND US Neutral AND Siberian Transfer Not Triggered THEN US War Readiness Reduced by 20% AND SIBERIAN TRANSFER ACTIVATED IN 6 turns. US Government announces that it is prepared for war with Japan. ---------------------------------------------- EVENTS Iraqi Revolt IF Iraq Revolts THEN Iraq joins Axis. The Military of Iraq has overthrown the King and declared its support for the Axis Alliance. Axis Sink US Passenger Ship IF Axis Subs sink US Ocean Liner THEN US Readiness War Increases by 10%. Axis submarines sunk the American Ocean Liiner at 10:00PM 400 miles east of New York. One thousand passengers lost their lives. Japanese Victorious at Battle of Midway IF Japanese take Midway THEN Siberian Transfer Option = OFF. Japanese Air and Naval Forces defeated the forces of the US naval in the Battle For Midway Island in the Pacific Ocean. [ April 23, 2004, 03:14 PM: Message edited by: Edwin P. ]

Yes, but he started as an Artillery Officer

[ April 22, 2004, 10:03 PM: Message edited by: Edwin P. ]

And only so much MPP to spend. Decisions, Decisions. As an aside, would you put an Air Commander in charge of an Army Group? So give them an Air HQ that can only benefit Air Fleets and Bombers and prevents enemy air units from spotting friendly units adjacent to an air unit commanded by an Air Group HQ unit - "Surprise, Surpise, Surprise" - Gomer Pyle Of course, I would probably prefer the more general purpose HQ unit that can benefit both Air and Land units. Excellent addition that it is limited to Air to Sea Combat and Spotting Abilities vs Naval Units. Perhaps carrying this a bit too far, you could have 3 German Naval HQ choices - one rated highly in submarine warfare, one rated highly in surface warfare and one rated highly in Naval Air as Naval Admirals tend to have their own preferences which influence ship building, spending priorities, and operations. In fact, I might even say that a German Naval HQ with a preference for Subs might reduce the cost of submarine building by 5% to reflect this or give a +1% bonus to Submarine Research. A Naval HQ with a preference for Air Operations might give a +1% bonus to naval bomber research. 1% too small? Its a 20% boost to the research provide by one tech chit (ie 5% to 6%). [ April 22, 2004, 03:32 PM: Message edited by: Edwin P. ]

In Summary: Proposed Naval HQ - Benefits only Naval Units. - Benefits the 5 units it commands anywhere on the map. - Gives a player a base 5% chance per turn to spot each enemy naval unit, adjusted by Intelligence Tech Level. [ April 22, 2004, 01:44 PM: Message edited by: Edwin P. ]

One thing I miss is Naval Commanders, Perhaps add a Naval HQ Unit whose purchase gives a bonus to the readiness and various Naval Attack Ratings and Defense Ratings of Naval Units they Command. A Naval HQ would not offer any benefits to Land or Air Units. Of course, if you decided not to purchase a Naval HQ unit then your Naval units would operate as normal. If you purchased a Naval HQ unit then the five ships it commanded would get a bonus no matter where they were on the map. Thus the Germans if they truely wanted to fight a naval war might purchase a Naval HQ unit, reflecting increased training, coordination and intelligence gathering for Naval units, to increase the combat capabilities and readiness of their Naval units. The British and Italians might do the same thing to increase their ability to control the seas. Of course, money spent on purchasing a Naval HQ unit would be money diverted from other other options. I would also give Naval HQ units a 5%(+5% per Intelligence Tech Level) to spot the location of any enemy unit in an Ocean Hex, reflecting the superior intelligence coordination and analysis available from a Naval HQ unit. [ April 22, 2004, 12:13 PM: Message edited by: Edwin P. ]

Excellent idea with the offensive and defensive ratings. Not only that, it should be relatively simple to implement with one rating affecting the attack value and another affecting the defense value. So SA is SA x Offensive Rating So SD is SD x Defensive Rating

Shaka, excellent insight into the diplomatic model. Allied Events A1.Minor - Convince the Italians to delay joining the Axis until the Germans can demonstrate victory over France. Effect - Reduces Italian War Readiness A2.Major - Convince the government of Norway to join the Allies. Effect - Increase Allied Alliance % A3.Major - Convince Vichy France to join the Allies. A4.Minor - Convince Vichy Syria to join the Allies.

I was thinking that to make the programming easier, if the Allies want the French to fight on they need to expend a Diplomatic Chit on the French before before the Germans take Paris. Then instead of creating Vichy, the French will fight on if the Germans offer Vichy unless the Germans decide to expend a Diplomatic chit on the French after taking Paris. Of course, if the Germans decide not to offer the French a Vichy option then using an Allied Diplomatic Chit on France will have been wasted. [ April 22, 2004, 10:28 AM: Message edited by: Edwin P. ]

Excellent point Shaka of Carthage. From posts in other areas I believe that HC is leaning towards using Diplomatic Chits which may allow players to increase the chance of a diplomatic outcome occuring which may also be influenced by your Intelligence Tech level. Diplomatic chits would cost MPPs so players would have to make a decision on whether they are worth it. I assume that since Diplomacy takes time that a player will spend a chit one turn, his opponent will have a chance to respond during their turn and that the result will be known the following turn - ie a 3 turn process. I think that there are several realistic opportunities for diplomacy, the key I think is that not all possibilities should be available in every game. Perhaps allow a set of 15 diplomatic options in each game picked from a universe of 45 options. Thus no two games are the same and players can't adopt a single perfect diplomatic strategy to achieve victory. 1) Allies encourage the Nordic Countries to sign a defensive Alliance. 2) Axis encourages the Baltic States to Join the Axis Axis can use a Diplomatic Chit to activate this option. The chance of it succeeding is the total of the following Modifiers: Diplomatic Chit +20%, Russian unit on Baltic nations border -10% per unit, Russia has annexed Eastern Poland, -10%, Russian Diplomatic Chit -25% 3) Axis encourage Sweden to join the Axis. Axis can use a Diplomatic Chit to activate this option. The chance of it succeeding is the total of the following modifiers: Diplomatic Chit = +25%, UK attacked Ireland = +25%, Allies Attacked Spain = +25%, Allies attacked Low Countries +25%, Allied Diplomatic Chit = -25%, Axis Attacked Spain -25%, Axis Attacked Switzerland -25%, Axis Attacked Russia -50%.

Can Operate units be disabled in the Editor. For example if I want to build a campaign based on Ancient Rome or the Napoleonic Wars and don't want to allow units to operate. Of course, I could always make it very, very expensive to operate units using the editor. Correct?

As others have suggested perhaps SC2 could include the option for randomly selected leaders. You purchase HQs for a fixed amount, but don't know their actual value until the first time a unit under their command engages in combat. In addition, I would like to see some HQs give Corps and Armor units commanded by them a small movement penalty - say (-1 AP) - to reflect the tendency of certain generals to be overly cautious when advancing.

Here's an idea. Allow the Allied player to activate post surrender partisans in any European allied nation (ie not Iraq or Vichy Algeria or Egypt), before it surrenders, for a cost of 400MPP per nation. Now the choice is, do I spend 400MPP to activate partisans in Norway or do I spend it to purchase another AirFleet or 3 Corps. What should I do? If I want to activate Partisans in Spain I better make sure that I have 400MPP in the bank when the Axis launch their attack, otherwise it might be conquered before I can accumulate the funds. Partisans tie down Axis troops but an Air Fleet is more flexible. What do I do? Decisions, Decisions [ April 21, 2004, 11:34 PM: Message edited by: Edwin P. ]

JerseyJohn Thanks for the feedback. It would be interesting to hear what HC and the playtesters think of your proposal and perhaps give us some insight into the new diplomatic system. [ April 21, 2004, 10:52 PM: Message edited by: Edwin P. ]

JerseyJohn and John DiFiool Excellent Points Whether or not to offer Vichy offers several advantages and disadvantages to both sides and it "Changes the Game". Of course you could always make this choice an option in the game setup and call it - Vichy Decision Y/N - for those who want more predictability. A. Why the Germans Might Select Vichy - Stops the conflict with France and allows the Italians and Germans to concentrate on another front. - Disbands the French Navy for the most part - Gives them a shorter border to defend in France and protect Northern Italy from Invasion - Fast and easy plunder to finance an early Sea Lion. B. Why the Germans Might Not Select Vichy - They want to secure more production - They want to attack induce Spain to join the Axis by offering them French territory, so they can take Gibraltar sooner. - As John DiFool mentioned that want to avoid any war readiness penalties from attacking Vichy later in the game. If the Germans don't accept Vichy the Brits gain on several fronts: - The gain any French ships not disbanded - They gain a production bonus while the vichy cities hold out. - They have time to Entrench in the cities of Algeria and Libya. - The Brits can reinforce the French overseas colonies before the Axis can launch an invasion I think that the Germans can develop winning strategies using both options. In addition HC et al might tie this into his new diplomatic system. Example - the Allies can use a diplomatic chit to encourage the French Forces to continue the fight, if the Axis have not already allocated a a diplomatic chit to counter convince the French. ie: German offers French Vichy - French accept. German offers French Vichy - French Reject as UK used a diplomatic chit to convince them to fight on. Example - The Axis can use, as JerseyJohn, suggests an offer of Gibraltar, Morroco and Algeria territory to induce Spain to join the Axis. The Allies can counter this with a diplomatic chit, costing the Allies MPPs but helping to ensure that Spain remains neutral. Example - The Axis can offer Tunisia and the area of Vichy France to Spain as further encouragement to join the Axis; however, this angers the Italians and the Brits may be able to convince the Italians to return to Neutrality by using a diplomatic chit if the Axis have not previously used a chit to secure good Italian relations. I wonder, will players be able to convince other nations to pull out of the war and adopt a policy of neutrality? perhaps by using a combination of diplomatic chits and events. I could see Spain entering the war and then the allies having liberated France convincing Spain to withdraw from the Axis and return to a neutral status. [ April 21, 2004, 11:05 PM: Message edited by: Edwin P. ]

So, I have a chance, a very small chance, to see iceburgs in the north atlantic during the winter months, the pyramids next to Cairo, the Partheon as part of Athens and King Kong climbing the Empire State Building in New York.

To elaborate on JerseyJohn's suggestion, I would also allow the Axis to offer Tunisia and the Vichy Area in France as a further incentive to Spain to join the Axis, but this offer which would infuriate the Italisns should come with a serious cost - the Italians might be persuded by the Allies to become Neutral if the Allies spend a diplomatic chit to excerbate Italian anger towards the Germans.

I like this proposal as it seems to be rather balanced in terms of game play with advantages and disadvantages for each option. If Germany decides not to offer the Vichy Option then Vichy Troops and Naval units do not disband and the UK has a much stronger navy, if the Allied player has not disbanded the French Navy! If the Germans create a Vichy France then the French navy is largely destroyed when Paris is captured but they lose some French production and may face increased Spanish and Turkish Anxiety if they attack Vichy France later. Offering territories to Spain as an incentive (a free diplomatic chit) to join the Axis also seems reasonable to me, especially if Spanish production was limited to building and benefiting Spanish Units. Similarly offering French Syria to Turkey is a good diplomatic incentive (think of it as a free Diplomatic Chit), but I would limit Turkish production to benefiting Turkish units if Turkey subsequently joins the Axis, otherwise their would be no cost to German production. Another good idea, but would this change of contol lead to increased Guerrilla activity by the local Arabs and Berbers. If so, then a change a control could activate Partisans for North Africa to force Spain to garrison these new territories. Overall, I like this idea of JereyJonh's and most humbly request those in the know to playtest it to determine if it is truely a fair and balanced option that should be considered for SC2. Also - currently the game tracks production for Russia, Italy, France, US, Germany, and the UK. I suggest adding to this list Turkey and Spain, the two largest European neutral nations in WWII. As long as they remain neutral their production would be zero, but once drawn into the war their resources would be limited to supporting their own armed forces. This change would also open the potential for interesting What If Scenario's such as WWI where Turkey was allied with Germany. [ April 21, 2004, 03:43 PM: Message edited by: Edwin P. ]

That would be problematical for another reason. Naval units that stray... more than ONE tile away from a port, such as Scapa Flow in your example, will have an increased possibility of suffering weather damage from rough Seas during those mud and snow seasons. That could very well be... what? October through March or April? Of course, this is in addition to the supplies expended by extensive naval maneuvers distant from a port, as was the case with Original SC... where readiness would go down the longer you were at Sea. Subs would also risk wear & tear, though on a lesser scale, since they can run submerged. They can avoid some of the immediate brunt of the Storms and crashing wave action. So. It remains the case that you are playing the Cat & Mouse game, even with naval sorties that are intent on interceptions. </font>

The biggest problem with doing a pacfic mod is recreating the amphibious invasions, as currently in SC2 a unit can land in a hex if it is occupied. Thus naval and air units have to destroy it first. For a pacific campaign to work HC would have to add the ability for a land unit to attack from offshore and to advance after combat if the defending unit was destroyed. If the defending unit was not destroyed then the attacking transport would take damage. There is also the problem related to the fact that only one fleet can be in Pearl harbor at a time. Note: the new amphibous units can move adjacent to a costal hex and land in the same turn, if that hex is not occupied.