Tripps
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Posts posted by Tripps
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Roughly 700 meters Tiger should be having issues
Tiger armour
Numbers denote millimeters and angle of armour
Turret Upper Hull Lower Hull
Front Side Rear Front Side Rear Front Side Rear
102+/8 82/0 82/0 102/10 82/0 82/8 102/24 62/0 82/8
T34/85 85/L55 ZiS S-53 AP(lg) Velocity 800 m/sec (Jan43-Mar44)
100m 500m 1000m 2000m (range)
0 30 60 0 30 60 0 30 60 0 30 60 (armour angle)
133 104 45 114 90 43 100 80 38 68 57 30 (mm penetration)
After March 44, the 85/L55 had a APBC round, which was slightly better than AP for hitting angled armour, but a little worse than AP for flat.
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In the old CMBB I had a chart, Russian 9 man SMG squad firepower:
40m 100m 250m 500m
450 99 4 0
From what I have seen in RT so far, I wouldnt be wasting ammo shooting past 75m, unless the enemy is sitting in the complete open.
Also, I wouldnt put a lot of rounds at a building either, Rifles penetrate a lot better - if you are *in* the building, thats a complete different story
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Thats a very good "if".
Unfortunately it ignores the racial fantasys underlying Nazi policy.
Potentialy Germany could have started the war in the east with twice as many army surgeons if they had not turned on some of their own religious minoritys.
Potentially, if you were to look at what I am replying to, you might have a clue as to why I put an "if" there...
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CaptHawkeye, on 19 Feb 2015 - 3:11 PM, said:
Ya mean like they did in 1944? Whole SS Divisions were being comprised of Ukrainian and Polish volunteers. The fact was this "resentment" to Stalin never materialized in a way meaningful enough to affect the war's outcome. German planning hinged quite a bit on anti-Soviet flare ups, hence Hitler's belief they only needed to "kick in the door". Well they damn well blew the door off the hinges, and Stalin's house still stood strong.
Just going from memory from ... I think he discussed it in "The Unknown Eastern Front" by Rolf - Dieter Muller, something like half the Axis soldiers on the Eastern Front throughout the war were non Germans.
I am of course including Romanians, Finns, Italians, Hungarians, etc. in all of that. Many thousands of Ukrainians also filled out German supply and service functions in combat and non combat units which acted to free up more Germans to serve in combat roles.
I was answering the quote about 'potential' strength, not what actually happened - I believe people think Russia had like a 3-1, 4-1 manpower greatness throughout the war (mainly due to Russia's stronger mobilisation) - but after Germany capture much of Russia's west, thats a huge chunk of Russia's manpower gone.
IF Germany had utilised those resources properly, they would have almost, if not equal, Russia's manpower reserves - IMO
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Theres alot going on here. Starting with strategic bombing. Certainly in 1943 it fails to meet the (ludicrously high) expectations put forward by commanders such as Harris or Eaker. However, at least imho) it plays a crucial role in determining the outcome of the landwar as the Germans are forced to strip the battlefield of fighter cover.
Im struck by the larger question of German strategy, however. I wonder if actually we dont realize how potentially strong Germany could have been had it been able to relatively efficiently organize Europe's resources, without the threat of strategic bombing in 1943 and 1944. For instance, even though people throw around the idea that Germany had to beat the USSR in 1941 or 1942 because it couldnt fight a long war against the Russians, the opposite might actually have been true. If Germany fights just the Russians it would have been able to significantly and increasingly outproduce the USSR (take a look at how much more steel and bauxite the Germans were producing on an annual basis in 1943 than the Russians). Germany actually has far greater resources than Russia in everything but manpower, they just cant use them efficiently, which was one of the great benefits of the failed strategic bombing campaign of 1943--you are spot on about this Capt Hawkeye. The longer that Germany and the USSR have a war a deux, the more likely it becomes that the Germans would wear the Russians down.
Potentially Germany would have almost matched Russia in regards to manpower as well if they had utilized the resentment towards Stalin in the occupied territories
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Now, using another piece of that mod, I made a proving ground, this is a 3x3 squared area, which uses a texture that covers 100% of each square, and this particular texuture visually devides each terrain tile into 4 smaller Tiles:
As you can see the plotter does not places the waypoint exactly in the center of the squares...
Yes i can totally see that now, still makes for awkward viewing when the sniper team looks to run 5m or so in the totally opposite direction from what you have plotted - but at least i can see why this can happen in game... not much we as players can do with it, since we cant see at a glance which terrain is lined up better to the orders grid...
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Therefore there's a wrong alignment between the command grid system (which comes on when you plot waypoints by means of the yellowish highlight) and the real terrain grid.
I think this sums it up very nicely, and as long as i did not have a brain fart and plot the wrong door in the very first instance - we can leave this until i run some more tests!
Ideas on the Hq and fence, and Hq radio?
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Well, for the troops using the "wrong" door the waypoint must have been different than the one shown on my test and also on Tripps' test, which both handle the same result. I'd say the original plot was in e square. Otherwise there's no explanation for the troops using the wrong door to reach the ordered c square, unless, in that particular case, the AI failed to recognize the presence of the "right" door, which is abasolutely possible because, as you said, there were many reports of problems with building entrances etc. and that kind of bug took most of the patch development time for what I understood.
I don't really trust these independent buildings.
I still maintain my orders were similar, if not 99% the same as my second test, I will run it a few more times and see if i can replicate the result.
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There's a sort of skewness in the 3d rendering yes.
So, the door is not exactly in the corner of 4 Tiles, it's a bit on the side, you can see it if you plot a waypoint, the highlighted yellow square is not precisely in front of the door.
ahah, thats why your grid lines were (what I thought) off center a little
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Wait, the cabbage garden is a flavour object and you can't see it in the editor.
Ah, my bad, looks like cabbages from here but they just trees!
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Kieme, I really do appreciate your replies, I understand your point, from looking at the screenshot in the scenario editor from my point of view, I see the door touching the immediate corner of a square, so an order from A - to C, using your pictures, wouldnt run through D or B (might touch both briefly tho)
Following that logic then, when a unit runs diagonally from the center of one square to another, it will cross a point of 4 squares,its exit square, and 3 others - at that point - TacAi can change the square you are running to?
See my cool paint drawing
I do notice however, that in the scenario editor, the little cabbage garden is directly level with the house, however, in game it is off to one side... is that what is causing all this, the replication of the scenario into 3D?
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Ok, I went into scenario editor, fired up the scenario, and found the building in particular, all the buildings in this map are on an angle.
http://i1381.photobucket.com/albums/ah202/jonniedeboer/scenedit_zpsccc7b72a.jpg
I think you are on the right track, altho "when going out of it they find themselves hanging among two squares" - isnt quite right now because the middle is pretty much where I put the way point...
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Well, since we have finished the game and my opponent has generously given me his password, I can test some things.
First up was the HQ - and here are his orders:
As you can see, one direct order, no way points or anything - and the turn played out almost identical, this time they lost sight for a second or two longer:
http://vid1381.photobucket.com/albums/ah202/jonniedeboer/hq%20take%202_zpsdg96gvfl.mp4
So lets look at the sniper team, orders screen:
http://i1381.photobucket.com/albums/ah202/jonniedeboer/sniperorders_zps05958883.jpg
And this time, they dont even try and take the shortest route...
http://vid1381.photobucket.com/albums/ah202/jonniedeboer/sniper%20take%202_zpsgfhskatr.mp4
This is just my first time replicating the orders...
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Examples of orders given:
In this last case the left door was used:
In conclusion this situation doesn't show a bug but a complex condition due to the position of the building within the grid, which leads the ordered waypoints to be either skewed North or South of the right door. If the skewness is extreme enough it will make the left door chosen due to a shorter path, thus the AI will use the left door instead of the right one.
Solution: map designers might avoid placing building in between squares.
By the way these kind of replies happen when a new CM game is about to be released but it's not out yet.
I want to add more to this, as I believe you are on the right track as to why my guys didnt follow orders.
I will be doing some tests tonight myself - but another part to the equation is the location of the door in the building, the left hand door is further back than the right hand side.
Your last screenshot probably gives the best example, from us looking down, the shortest point from the building to the end waypoint is the right hand side, BUT, if the door on the left hand side is lower, its probably a 50-50 call as to which way is faster (as in total distance travelled)
When they get outside there is a couple fences to jump over, but maybe they didnt know that at the time..
Keep in mind my guys were just inside the right hand side door at the start of the turn as well.
I dont want to have to embrace the suck, as was mentioned, but i dont want to have to micromanage over several turns either (first turn, give them orders to exit right, completely next turn go back 20 m, next turn go left etc)
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IanL, on 30 Jan 2015 - 06:00 AM, said:
...when the radio operator is moving he cannot be on the comms so his CO's radio communication will be unavailable until he gets to a destination and setup again.
And even then, it is possible for an HQ to be off-net; radios in WW2 are not 100% reliable.
Ok, So if the radio operator is moving comms go down.. it would be nice if they lost comms as soon as they move then, rather than 10 seconds after they start moving, that would make it more obvious as to whats happening, or put it in the manual - how do you know this BTW?
Also, watching the C2 lines, at the 30 second mark when they start running again, they re-establish C2 to the Jeep (they should have yelled Halt!
) and also another line comes up, thats going to a HT mounting a quad 20mm, at least 500 meters away through trees, so that must be a radio link - is it possible radio comms are tentative/sporadic while moving instead? And is this something we are just noticing in game only? Because I cant find anything in the manuals.. -
Awesome replies guys - i'll try and answer any questions.
First off, im playing via dropbox and not in the habit of saving turns before hitting the red bar. Perhaps I should do from now on, as i appreciate you all have to take my word for it.
The sniper team, I am 99% sure I plotted a waypoint directly out the right side door first, before running back down the white arrows - the reason being it was the only covered route to safety - the large group of buildings in front left the Russians had just captured taking heavy losses removing my 4 man SMG squad, directly in front was the unit(s) the sniper team had been engaging - but the right side of the sniper building was the approach march the snipers had taken to the hedge which is on a crest - so i knew that was the only way out.
Plus I wasnt sure if i should load them onto the HT, or replace the Plt HQ in the building, so I plotted them behind the building and would make a decision later.
Kieme, I could definately place a way point closer to the right side door than you did in your screenshots, the map we used was 39, that came with the game, im at the office now so cant load, but I could definately place a waypoint outside the door before running back.
I appreciate your tests tho, they have given me a better insight into the game mechanics, tonight I will take a screenshot of how close i could place that waypoint - I think in your conclusion it means I will have to load every game into the editor before I play it and look for potential problem areas
Regarding the second example, I am 100% sure I selected the Batt HQ, hit B, selected kubelwagen and the embark option - that was it.
For the kubelwagen and gave it a 30 sec delay before driving off - i was careful, because a turn or so before I had tried to load a whole 12 man squad into a truck and didnt give it enough time.
IanL there was no way point next to the kubelwagen, the grouping they do is I believe the Ai replotting their next action because their objective has suddenly driven off.
The issue there seems to me to be the fact they lose LOS for a second..
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Hi All, long time CM player, started coming back with CMBN, but now getting full time into RT.
First game up, having lots and lots of what I would call WTF?!?! moments, but im hoping there is something that I can better understand.
Note - playing Iron settings. Version 1.03 game eng 3.
I thought it would better to try and get some screenshots in, so its easier to visualise.
First example:
I had a sniper team that had raced forward into a pretty good spot catching my opponent by surprise and for a good 4 turns picked off quite a few enemies before my opponent started putting some suppression on the team.
The team, auto retreated back into the small house behind them, but being the elite fanatics they were, were not worried in the slightest and were probably chuckling the whole time.
For the next turn, I thought they were well overdue to displace anyway so I gave them specific orders on how to retreat safely.
See Pic 1. (yeah i used paint, my bad!)
Red Star is kill area, red arrow is ai retreat option, white arrows were my orders.
http://i1381.photobucket.com/albums/ah202/jonniedeboer/pic1_zpscca2de9f.jpg
Now, Elite PixelTruppen Sniper Gelbend decides screw that, I can just run out this other door over here and save myself a good 10 meters on this little run.
So this is what happens:
http://vid1381.photobucket.com/albums/ah202/jonniedeboer/wrong%20option_zpsagkjtipt.mp4
Not only did they run out the wrong door, they also jumped the fence and turned around - as if to jump over it again... needless to say the Russians lay it on thick to avenge their comrades...
I start paying attention after i remember there were quite a few little things like that happening, and it does, i notice this happens ALL the time.
Second Example.
Batt HQ, no where near anyone, just hanging back chilling in a little hut playing cards, but hes now needed so I give one order, run outside and jump in your kubelwagen, your men need you!
I give the Kubelwagen a 30 second delay before bugging out, more than enough time i thought.
This happens:
http://vid1381.photobucket.com/albums/ah202/jonniedeboer/where%20you%20goin_zps0pt5umob.mp4
Now notice at the 5-7 second mark, as they run out, they lose vision of their kubelwagen for a split second - (iron settings? or wow, that camo job is awesome?) - which must cause them to re-path (Bro! I think i parked around back) so they run around the back, then realise it was in front of them the whole time...
They end up chasing Hans the kubelwagen driver (intercept course!) for another 30 seconds before i get a chance to sort i out.
Another thing happens at the 11 second mark - they lose radio comms with everyone, you can see the C2 lines go black - someone knock the radio?
They get a couple red lines back a few seconds later, but unfortunately not to the panther, who brews up next turn - how much of an effect losing comms was i'll never know...
So anyways, this is happening continually, i can load more example from just this, my first game - is it just an Iron settings thing where it makes all my pixeltruppen near sighted, crazy, and rebel against my orders?
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A friend and I are about to play this, is it balanced? A quick look at the units seems to favour the Allies?Originally posted by JonS:To The Volga is very good, and balanced.
Cheers
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I've heard this a couple of times from other as well, but no one is offering anything really specific.Then had some gameplay frustrations with what basically boiled down in the end to my lack of understanding of the depth, subtlety and complexity of this game.
What types of frustrations were you having, the same as a few others here?
If so, care to share some of that understanding?
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In the forum or privately?
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Really?Originally posted by HardRock:And for umpteenth time...trees never blocked LOS.
[/QB]
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Put them behind lots of trees to, and bushesOriginally posted by Bad:keep your tigers and panthers far away and no problem
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Rune, I heard what you said, the in game calculations are correct, fine (others can debate that, i've read enough of your posts over the years to give you a large benefit of the doubt).
And again, you say you didnt work on the encylopedia (i called it "in game data" above, maybe thats why its confusing) - so I get all that, but i'm getting the impression from this thread that it seems there are discrephrencies between those two items, and maybe some rather large ones - thats what i find disturbing.
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Thankyou for reminding me (and everyone else).Originally posted by BillyBob:</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Tripps:
You forgot to mention the transparant trees too
You forgot the invisible bushes.
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Killing Range ?
in Combat Mission Red Thunder
Posted
From the old CMx1 charts
im not sure if i can post links but google chris's cm database hosted at xtreemhost