Molotov Cocktail

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Hi! swedish neighbor I'm also poor bastard from Nordic country (Finland). I think that we have to use the CDV patch (Im not sure about norwegians and icelanders, because Norway is non-Eu country, so is also Iceland), I have bought english CDV-version, so If you have also bought CDV-version from finnish store, Download CDV patch. Thanks for information Madmatt and Steve ! Your info was valuable for us europeans (including nordics: finns, swedes etc)

What is difference between CM:BB Battlefront patch and CM2 CDV patch? I own European english CDV-version CM2. Can I update CDV version with Battlefront international patch (non- Eu) and if I can what I lose if update with Battlefront version patch my CDV CM2? CDV version patch much bigger!? Confused European (Finn also)!

Actually it also mentions Battlefront I bought friday 4.10 CM:BB or CM2 from Akateeminen Kirjakauppa (Academic Bookstore) part of Stockmann department which is situated in Helsinki. It cost €49.90 CD-ROM was backed in plastic DVD-case, Cover paper was in finnish language. On backcover there is mention that the game itself is in english language, but game instructions are in finnish. Inside case there was English language manual. But in manual there was mention that part of the manual was in pdf format in CD-ROM. These parts were in CM2 CD-ROM according to english language manual. The Environment PDF4, The Men and Machines PDF 24, TheEditor pdf 63, The Challenge PDF 89, The Beginner's Tutorial PDF 123, The Ostfront PDF 128. Appendix C- Troubleshooting PDF 142 Appendix D - Index PDF 152 But those parts were not in CD-ROM (finnish version). But I found file called manual.pdf which was inside of manual folder from CM2 CD-ROM', it was CM2 manual in finnish language in PDF format. On cover of CM2 case there was mention in finnish "Sisältää 266-sivuisen suomenkielisen ohjeen" it means in English " Includes 266 page finnish language instruction" and back side of CD-cover there was mention about characteristics of game "Sisältää laajan suomenkielisen ohjekirjan" "Includes comprehensive finnish language manual". I think the cover texts are bit misleading, because many finnish buyers could think that the cover text means printed finnish manual. So with finnish manual (pdf not printed one) and printed english one, not full (there is no parts in PDF format). :confused: :confused: I tested my the game in my work after working hours (because my home pc is not enough powerful, the game looks promising, sounds are good (thanks for Madmatt) I like especially sound of braking glass, when the finns are throwing molotov cocktails . I have to uninstall CM:BO (sad) and get rid of CM:BO mods and not so necessary programs to get space for CMBB and überfinns Muuten kaikki suomalaiset pelaajat, CM:BB eli CM2 on hyvä itsenäisyyspäivä- tai joululahja. Koska meidän isoisät ja isät taistelivat itsenäisyyden puolesta 1944 kesän aikana, kuten Tali-Ihantalassa ja Ilomantsissa (ja pelastivat sen ja myös samalla suomalaisen demokratian). Ok tavallisesti emme anna itsenäisyyspäivälahjoja, mutta CM:BB:n CM2:n pelaaminen on hyvä tapa kunnioittaa kaatuneita sankareitamme, veteraaneja. Jos minun isoisäni sotaveteraani olisi yhä olemassa, hän olisi pitänyt CM:BB:stä eli CM2:sta Kauan eläköön Suomen tasavalta! Translation By the way all finns players, CM:BB or CM2 is good indenpendence day (6th december finnish independe day) or christmas present. Because our grandfathers and fathers fought for independence during summer 1944 like in Tali-Ihantala and Ilomantsi( and saved it ja and saved also same time the finnish democracy). Ok normally we don't give independence presents, but playing the CM:BB or CM2 is good way to honor our fallen heroes and veterans. My grandfather, war veteran (if he would still live would have liked the CM:BB or CM2). Long Live Republic of Finland!

You are American and your many reason to buy CM:BB is Finns . And you also from Minnesota , many Scandinavians (Norwegians, Swedes, Finns) and Germans emigrated to Minnesota end of 19th and beginning 20th century, if I remember right. So I presume you probably have "finnish blood" in your veins? Am I right? I have relatives across the border in Canada, but I haven't never met them (in Thunder bay, if remember right )

These are not Romanian tanks as accidentally claimed in WOOHOO! I GOT IT!!! topic, these tanks have Hungarian markings, from left to right (Im not sure about tank models, but I'm sure tanks are in Hungarian service) Toldi, Turan and Tiger Im still waiting for screenshots of Polish People's Army (PPA) (Ladowa Wojskowe Polska - LWP)in CMBB, have seen only screenshots of CMBB interface with Polish flag on it. Please! By the way Finnish, Hungarian (and also Estonian) are finno-ugric languages, like Swedish, Danish, English and German are germanic languages. Finnish and Hungarian are not even Indo-European languages like Hindi, German, French, English, Russian, Swedish, Polish etc. So there is reason why Finnish language might sound so odd in CM:BB and also maybe Hungarian.

The Polish please (Die Polen bitte!)Screenshots please! Swoboda (Freedom) for Poland! Ok, they use Soviet armour, Soviet armour so they look like soviets (They were part of Soviet Armed forces like Czech and Yugoslav volunteers). Like Polish look like british in CMBO, in CMBO they had british uniforms ann british equipment (also some American armour). But maybe they have white polish eagle in T-34 tank.

Screenshot of finnish made BT-42 assault gun, (not at all überfinn armour ), if possible. Is it in CM:BB or not? BT-42 Andreas Lärka's The IMPS Fi-1877 Page! Dedicated to Finnish Armoured Forces of World War II BT-42 Maybe the worst assault gun in the Second World War, the finnish BT-42.

Romanians! Romanian infantry and armour , screenshots please. Maybe TACAM if possible

Hei kaikki suomalaiset! Cheapest place to buy CM:BB in Finland? Playerone perhaps? 47.95 € order via Internet from Playerone Finnish Online computer and video game store. Any suggestions? Maybe some finn can answer to my question.

Just a "funny" note, if they sell it in Greece, they would be breaking Greece law, since they recently outlawed ALL games.</font>

Finnish assault guns and tanks with swastika or without in CM:BB? There has been lot of talk about Waffen-SS and Waffen Grenadiere thing and legislation of Bundesrepublik Deutschland. Now I ask is there in CM:BB swastikas on finnish assault guns and tanks or not. Finnish swastika has nothing to do with the german national sosialistic party symbol. (Probably)All finnish CM players now origin of finnish airforce blue swastika. But I don't know origin of finnish armoured vehicles swastika. Finland did not have one party fascist totalitarian regime like Germany, Italy, or example so called Independent State of Croatia (puppet state of Germany), but democratic one. Finland was only western democracy (multi party democracy) on german side.Others were totalitarian fascist or otherwise undemocratic. So swastika on finnish tanks and assault guns has nothing to do with nazis. But I'm afraid because the german CDV is distrubutor for whole western europe, finnish can not play cm:bb with swastika decorated Stugs. And the historical accuracy suffers. Picture of Fnnish stug with swastikas WWW-site about Finnish armoured fighting vehicles Andreas Lärka*s The IPMS Fi-1877 Page! Dedicated to the Finnish Armoured Forces in WWII Maybe buddhist or hindus are not allowed use swastikas on Germany. Why Germans don't example censor Indiana Jones movies there is lot of nazi swastikas, Indy movies are not historical studies. I think Indy movies are good entertaiment but still just entertaiment,like computer games historically accurate or not.

Is The "General Winter" good for Finns and Soviets and bad for Germans and others in CM:BB? German other Axis lower fighting morale (except Finland) during winter CM:BB? And German other Axis equipment (except Finland) would not work always CM:BB during winter? Germans and it's allies (Romania,Hungary, Italy, Slovakia except Finland [strictly speaking not formal ally of Germany, so strictly speaking not Axis country]) were badly prepared to winter, at least in 1941. And It's was amazing that Germans were badly prepared even in next year 1942 ( at least in Stalingrad). Good book about battle of Stalingrad Stalingrad, Antony Beevor Good clothing is not enough to keep your warm, you have to have warm place, when was serving in my national army we had tents equipped with iron stove, with iron stove and wood and warm sleeping bags, you did not notice that there could be even 40 degrees minus outside of tent. Finnish Defense forces http://www.mil.fi I think that finns used same kind of tents also in World War II or they had in their trenches warm wooden dugouts or billboxes (korsu in finnish language) , during Continuation War's (In Finland we call our part in war against russians and in German side Continuation war. It was Continuation war because we did want to regain areas which we lost in our heroic" Winter War" against invading Stalin's Soviet Union") static "position war phase", where finns were in their own trenches and soviets in other side (I dont what is real word in english). Germans had no proper cover against cold Russian Winter (at least 1941) so they took houses from russian civilians and throw them away from their houses to coldness and certain death (if they did not find another warm place to live through winter). Finns and Soviets (at least those leaved in northern parts of Soviet Union and especially Siberian units) were accustomed their colder climates, they had better clothing example for harsh and inhumane Russian and Finnish winters. So I thank it might be good that Germans and other Axis (expect Finland), would have during winter months lower fighting morale than during warm summer months in CM:BB. Even fighting morale of diehard Waffen-SS soldier freezes (without proper clothing) in -20°- 40°. War is hell, when people get killed, wounded and kill other people, but It's even more hell during winter time, it's truly "Russian hell)". When I was serving in my national army and it was wintertime, when something was not working like it should be it's was nottruly were nice, like supply nco forgot tent's base (tent's base is wood, so the wooden insulates soldier's from cold ground), then hot iron stove melted ground, and in morning were with our sleeping bags in wet sandy, and muddy ground. (Ok maybe we had some kind of cloth between our sleeping bags and ground. And example hardness of finnish or russian winter is that when your food freezes quickly to your food box. ( I don't know what is right term for the food box, that is the metal box which every soldier carries with him) "The German army was unprepared for the severity of the conditions it now faces, asn as the temperature dropped to minus 20 and minus 30 degrees, tanks and lorries started to breaking down. Weapons and artillery jammed; batteries froze solid, rendering radio equipment useless. The Lufwaffe was grounded, cutting off supplies and support to the front. And the men,who had not been issued winter clothing, began to freeze to death. Thin leather boots and gloves were no defence against the relentless cold. During December 1941, one panzer division reported that it was losing five times as many men to frosbite as were dying in combat. Supplies of fuel ran out as tank crews kept their engines running all night rather than risk trying, but failing to restart them in the morning. Others simply burned petrol to keep warm. The Russians, meanwhile, seemed immune to the freezing temperatures. Not only were they accustomed to such conditions they were better far better equipped to deal with them, having learned their lesson in Finland 1939-40. As well as winter clothing, they had anti-freeze for their tanks and winter oil for their guns. German officers reported seeing Russian soldiers capture weapons that their own own units had abandoned as useless, oil them, and then turn them on their previous owners. Even the ponies they used haul their artillery were better suited to the climate than their German counterparts, which were dying in droves. All of a sudden , the rules of warfare seemed to have been turned on their head." World War II, The World In Flames, Owen Booth and John Walton German gebirgsjägers in Lapland northern part of Finland had mules which were imported from mediterranean Greece (strictly speaking from Crete if I remember right). Poor mules died in arctic conditions when germans tried to capture important and vital seaport of Murmansk in far north. Here is finnish propanda poster from World War II, It was intended for Soviet troops. In the picture of poster is dead and frozen Soviet soldier. The text of poster says russian language: (above the picture) "BJELAJA SMJERT" " White Death", You can not resist this enemy - frost. You can not see it, but it surrounds you everewhere. http://guns.connect.fi/gow/kybelaja.jpg By the way, soviets themselves used word "White Death" from finnish soldiers during "Winter War" 1939-1940, because finns had white snowcamouflagesuits over their uniforms.

<blockquote>quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by Michael Dorosh: Can't these all be portrayed by standard German troops? If they didn't use different organization or weapons, the only difference in game terms would be - well, none except maybe speaking the wrong language and missing a colourful bit or two on the sleeves of the uniform. [ 01-19-2002: Message edited by: Michael Dorosh ]<hr></blockquote> Yes, spaniards and croats can portrayed by standard German troops and Poles can portrayed by standars Soviet troops. But exception is Slovakia, Slovakians had their own army in Soviet Union the Slovak Light Division. Slovaks had their own uniforms. They had their shorter version of German Mauser rifle VZ. The Invasion of Poland 1939 Slovakia:Corporal of infantry, Southern Poland 1939 This uniform, the standard field dress of the former Czech army, continued to form the basics of Slovak uniform until the end of the war. Equipment: Made of brown leather and khaki canvas, Czech equipment combined features of World War I Austrian and more recent German equipment. Weapons: Czech VZ (short) M.1924 Mauser service rifle. (World Army Uniforms Since 1939, Andrew Mollo and Digby Smith) The Eastern Front Sergeant, Slovak Army 1942 This is the uniform of the former Czechoslovak Army but with the special markings of the Slovak Light Division. Rank badges were worn on the collar patches which were in the arm-of-service colour. The rifle is the Czech version of the German Mauser. It was designated VZ (short rifle) (The Armed Forces of World War II Uniforms, Insignia & organisation, Andrew Mollo) They had also Czech Skoda Light tanks (Although if I remember right germans also used Skoda tanks, and Hetzer was developed from Skoda tank) and armoured cars, other armoured equipment was german. Slovak equipment In May 1944 Slovakian armored troops had the following: 37mm vz. 37M AT-guns 17 50mm vz. 38 PaK 2 75mm vz. 40 PaK 2 PzKpfw. III ? PzKpfw. II 16 LT vz. 38 61 LT vz. 40 14 LT vz. 35 49 LT vz. 34 27 vz. 33 tankettes 27 OA vz. 30 armored cars 13 Pictures of Slovak armour http://www.skalman.nu/third-reich/axis-sk-gallery.htm

Sorry, there was two times picture about Spaniard serving in Wehrmact, this is right picture for Croat soldier of Wehrmact

Germany and Soviet Union are of course included in CMBB and Finland, Hungary, Italy and Romania if I remember right.(Perhaps Polish also :confused: ? What about Slovakia? For the German invasion of the Soviet Union the Slovaks placed at the disposal of the Germans a light brigade of 3500 men which was partially motorised and included a battalion of Czech light tanks, and an army corps of two infantry divisions and divisional troops. The total strength of the Slovak Commitment in July 1941 was 40,393 men, 1346 officers, 2011 motor vehicles and 695 lorries. (The Armed Forces of World War II Uniforms, Insignia & organisation, Andrew Mollo). These Slovak units fighting on the Eastern Front suffered heavy casualties and 1943 were withdrawn to carry out security duties. The Slovak Army had their own uniform and helmet, basically uniform and helmet were same as uniform and helmet of the former Czechoslovak Army, only with some minor alterations to uniform. In Talonsoft's Eastern Front 2, Slovakians are covered (at least in one scenario). Some info about Slovak commitment to "Operation Barbarossa" from the net. http://www.feldgrau.com/a-slovakia.html http://axis101.bizland.com/Slovakian.html http://www.skalman.nu/third-reich/axis-sk-army-div-fast.htm http://www.skalman.nu/third-reich/axis-sk-army-tanks.htm http://www.skalman.nu/third-reich/axis-sk-gallery.htm What about Spanish volunteers of Wehrmacht (The Blue Division, Division Azul)? In return for help in the Spanish civil war, Franco agreed to formation of a Spanish Volunteer Division of 18,000 men, most of whom were regular soldiers, to participate "crusade" against Bolshevism on the Eastern Front. On 25th July 1941 the Spanish "Blue" (Azul) Division became the 250th Infantry Division of the German Army. Personnel strength was 641 officers, 2272 noncommissioned officers and 15,780 men. After sustaining 12,776 casualties, the Division was withdrawn from the front in October 1943. Following the general retreat into Estonia the Legion began to leave for Spain in April 1944. Uniform Standard Wehrmact uniform althogh the blue shirt of the fascist Falangist Party continued to be worn under the field-blouse with the collar showing; hence the name "Blue Division". On the right sleeve of the field blouse and greatcoat, and on the right side of the steel Spanish volunteers wore a shield-shaped badge in the national colours. The Yoke and Arrows emblem of Falange and other falangist insignia appeared in various places on some items of head-dress and on the field-blouse. Spanish and German medals were often worn in the Spanish manner. (The Armed Forces of World War II Uniforms, Insignia & organisation, Andrew Mollo). In Talonsoft's Eastern Front 2,The Blue Division is covered (at least in one scenario). http://www.feldgrau.com/spain.html http://members.es.tripod.de/jnroldan/ What about Croatian volunteers of Wehrmacht? (The Croatian 369th Reinforced Regiment or Croatian Legion and Hrvatska Legija) The Regiment had 3,895 officers, NCO's and men. Uniform As part of the Wehrmacht the men of the unit were to wear German uniforms and use German rank insignia. A Croatian armshield consisting of 24 red and white checkers with the title Hrvatska (Croatia) above it was to be worn on the left arm and on the left side of the helmet. (http://www.feldgrau.com/croatia.html) The 369th Regiment thus became the only unit of non-Germans to participate in the attack on Stalingrad. This was actually viewed as a great honor - a reward for its hard fought battles and excellent successes to this point. ... ... On the 16th of October 1942, Colonel-General Sanne decorated Croatian Sergeant Dragutin Podobnik with the Iron Cross 1st Class for extreme heroism during the taking of the Red October factory on the 30th of September. Colonel Pavicic is also decorated with this medal for his excellent leadership of the Regiment. (http://www.feldgrau.com/croatia.html) The Croats fought bravely, and eventually participated in the battle of Stalingrad. The unit was assigned to the northern sector of Stalingrad, and fought with extreme courage in the area of the "Red October" factory. The entire Regiment was caught in the encirclement of the 6th Army in November of 1942, and trapped inside Stalingrad. The Croats continued to fight, and sustained heavy losses. In fact, by the time the 6th Army capitulated in February of 1943, the 369th Regiment had only one, reduced battalion remaining. These survivors were herded into Soviet captivity, together with the other 6th Army POWs. Few survived Soviet captivity to return to their homeland after the end of the war. (http://users.pandora.be/stalingrad/croatia.html) http://www.feldgrau.com/croatia.html http://users.pandora.be/stalingrad/croatia.html http://www.skalman.nu/third-reich/heer-infanterie-reg-369.htm What about polish volunteers of Soviet Red Army? Polish Armed Forces In 1941, the Soviet goverment began to allow the organisation of a fightin force from the Poles in labour and prisoner of war camps, but the bulk of the forces raised were transferred to the United Kingdom or to the Middle East. By the end of 1943 there were over 40,000 poles in arms. In the spring of 1944, the Polish Army in the USSR consisted ofthe 1st Polish Army, and a formation staff for the 2nd Polish Army under General Carol Swierczewski with three infantry divisions, artillery and engineer brigades and units of a tank corps under training. Polish forces took part in the crossing of the Vistula, the liberation of Warsaw, the breaching of the "Pomeranian Wall" and the capture of Berlin. When the war ended on 8 May 1945 the Poles were approaching the northern suburbs of Prague. By these final offensives, there were over 200,000 Poles serving the fight against Germany, organised in two armies and comprising ten infantry divisions, two armoured brigades and some independent tank and artillery formations. During 1945, they suffered 32,000 casualties. Uniform After suspension of diplomatic relations between the Soviet Union and the British-based Polish Government in-Exile, when the Soviet Union began to raise the new Polish 'Kósciuszko' Division personnel were given Red Army uniforms on which were worn Polish rank badges and uncrowned Polish eagle on the head-dress. (The Armed Forces of World War II Uniforms, Insignia & organisation, Andrew Mollo). By the way info about "überfinns" in Waffen-SS. http://www.feldgrau.com/finland.html http://www.geocities.com/Pentagon/Quarters/2130/index.htm http://www.skalman.nu/third-reich/ss-finnisches.htm