Biltong
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Posts posted by Biltong
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Exceptional support Joachim - best I've seen in a long time. Well doneOriginally posted by Scarhead:....If armor rocks, then ATGs are paper, while inf is scissors. Move slowly. ...
If you learn to be patient, you will loose less forces, but usually achieve a victory. There is no need to capture all flags in 15 turns....
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Welcome Sebastian!!Originally posted by Seahawk-vfa201:BiltAid support
It is my very pleasure to announce that BiltAid support has now a TEAM! Welcome the induction of Sebastian Szpil who has professional experience with Java J2EE environment.BiltAid is receiving a considerable boost from his contribution so expect the unexpectable!
Biltaid has opened up BCR to a host of players who only have a narrow gap between RL and dream-time.
Any help you provide will be much appreciated
Biltong
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88 - WelcomeOriginally posted by 88mm:Battle-report BCR-game2
well, i am trying a differen tactic now. It needed some "work"
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You have just joined the hunt for the Holy Grail of Tactical Perfection.
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Mike Dwyer mailed me with the folowing:
I have been lurking on the BCR Forum at BattleFront.com for a while and played a few games using BiltAid. I like your system but felt that tracking individual soldier was very important. I felt that averaging the unit's experience was removing the fact that there could be some very high exp. soldiers in a squad with green ones and that over the long run the high level exp. should move the unit up faster. So not wanting to complain about things I wrote a computer program to track squad/teams as individuals.
I would love to see your program. What do you do when there are say 3 casualties in a squad? Randomly select which individuals were killed/wounded?
My problem now is I have no idea historically what the rate of replacements should be. I know this number would change as German losses mounted and conditions at the front get worse. Since I have no data at all in this area I thought I would ask you.
Rate of replacements? BCR tracks Quality of Replacements quite closely, but how many/rate? replacements were assigned to the Battle Group and arrived in time for a battle is clumped together with a host of other factors such as wounded; killed; frostbite victims; sick; lack of ammo; spares; fuel etc etc. All handled by the Casualty parameter.
Some Grogs might have an answer, but I doubt that you will find a generalised 'Rate of Replacements' for anything other than a Division or smaller and for a narrow time range. I.e.: You'll find mentions of "Division X was at 45% strength at this date and half there replacements have not arrived by such and such a date".
I've never seen it mentioned in general terms for a corp or Army or larger and definitely not for the Southern theatre. The research to determine this accurately will take up a hell of a lot of time and I think you'll have large gaps in the data. Sorry - can't help.
I suggest you post it in the general board: "Grogs - pls help with rate of replacements" or somefink
I'll post this in the BCR thread as well - you never know.
Biltong
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You mean in the rules sheet? Good point. I guess the answer in buried in the mist of timeOriginally posted by Seahawk-vfa201:..
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />
Why start with the Allies-table (setup) while the game starts (we read from left to right, so left=first) with the Axis. Making rules is one, implementing them in a logic and easy to follow manner is a another struggle.
...</font>
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Ahhh - The incomprehensible rulesOriginally posted by Lou2000:......
Now those nice guys who were involved in fine tuning these rules are the ones who should have all the answers ......
A bit of history. The 1st set of rules spanned only 10 or so pages. Once the guys started playing the holes appeared. As we/I expanded the rules to cater for historical accuracy and most of the important permutations made possible by the parameters it turned into a 'book'.
About 5? months ago we started to get an influx of new players and it became clear that we needed a 1st battle newbie handbook - hence the Players Guide.
A fanatical guy with extensive experience in manuals, called (fittingly), The Scalpel took the rules in hand and helped to create the Player Guide. He polished the rules, sentence by sentence, clearing up language, logic and potential misunderstandings.
For instance: It would seem dumb to have two sets of rules: BCR & a Players Guide, but there's logic behind this. The idea is for a new player to use the Player Guide in conjunction with the rules to hold his hand, so to speak, through the 1st couple of battles only. Thereafter he can discard the Player Guide and only use the more compact Rules.
Combining the two into one would make a bulky and very difficult document to use when rolling up battles. The rules are a summary of the bare essentials needed to roll up battles. If something isn't clear, go back to the player guide and check if it isn't explained in greater detail there.
As for FAQ's - We had a volunteer some months ago, but we decided against it, for the same reason. There are such a wide variety of questions, that to list all of these and their answers would create another volume of pages that will just confuse newbies even more. Now they will sit with 3 books!!
After about 6 months of adjusting BCR, I called a halt, to give the auto guys some time to finalise their programs. At that stage it also became clear that 90% of the questions that were still coming in, were because the player did not read that section of the rules properly.
Certainly there will always be room for improvement... When I see 2 or more people misunderstanding a rule, then I clear it up. Hence the 10 or more updates
However, I did make a conscious descision not to cater for all eventualities - esp where the player's should be able to use common sense. To cater for every permutation would turn the rules into a monster that will scare away every new player. I cater for the average CMBB player. assuming a fair knowledge of CMBB and some experience in wargames and some knowledge of the EF theatre. To cater for total newbies, explaining how CMBB works, what happened on the EF, etc. is outside the scope of BCR.Generally I find that once players have played a couple of battles, the logic falls into place and soon therafter he stops reading large parts of the rules, because it becomes automatic.
Actual mistakes in the rules have virtually disappeared. The last one was found 2? months ago.
Newbies normally have some questions, since the rules are a lot to absorb in one sitting, but this is where this thread comes in. It is very seldom that a newbie asks a question and it does not get answered by one of the guys within 2 days. I, myself check in nearly every day to make sure that questions have been answered. This also has the added benefit of keeping the thread alive and introducing more players to BCR and providing a ready forum for discussion. I know there are a lot of BCR lurkers who read this thread on a regular basis
Biltong
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I did not answer your 2 questions, because… well it was late at night and your language got me a bit riled up.Originally posted by 88mm:... See how silly you sound..
OK
Hmmm – 1st time I’ve received this type of language on this board. These remarks are unnecessary and counter-productive. I was trying to help you.foxholes? What are you babling about?..
If you read my post you would have noticed that it was placed under the heading Defence.
If you check 32 Arty/Air you will notice two modifiers : June +2; July +1. 70% likelihood of getting air in June etc. Thereafter you will have 10% chance of getting air. Obviously this is very generous since it was unlikely that a single company would get air support so often.Besides; where are my Stuka's?
You write quite a bit about the SS divisions… BCR represents an average unit…. Obviously not SS.
Language?… The emphasis here is on “5 years intensive war-gaming. CMBO/CMBB”. I based my Player Exp on the rough formula Con 10% Green 20% Reg 50% Vet 18% Crack 2%.See how silly you sound. 30 years of wargaming blabla.. and you still concider yourself "regular" ?Knowing the calibre of CMBO/BB players out there (at that time) I placed myself as Reg. Upper end of reg, maybe, but still not in the top 20%. This was based on extensive CMBO/BB PBEM’m over many years, where I had my arse kicked countless of times and also had the pleasure/pain to see real vets and even a crack or 2 in action. Since the huge influx of newbies I imagine I must have upgraded by now
I’m afraid I don’t know what you are talking about. I presume you are using Biltaid? I did not code Biltaid. All I can vouch for is BCR.When i fill in the attached unit why isn't there a button for supporting weapons ? Why are there (despite the rules) 3 button's for tanks that you are not allowed to buy...As for experience gain. This has been discussed extensively and adjusted over many months, with input from various sources including Grogs – and I mean real Grogs.
Short summary:
As you mention: The East Front was very expensive when it came to lives. So much so that there was a steady decline in the quality of troops, with some exceptions, through the years.
This is ‘ideal’ since it makes BCR more difficult as the campaign progress – an essential ingredient for any game.
If a green players’ troops can become Vet/Crack or Elite in no time, he and everybody else will have no motivation to progress through the 4+ years spanned by BCR. Boredom will set in soon after reaching the ‘peak’ and that will be the end of the campaign.
From your membership no. I presume you are new to CMBB. Even players with extensive experience in the other games you mention, quite often don’t have a clue re tactics, since they are not that crucial in the other games. CMBB and BCR, requires a good tactical knowledge. BCR’s un-stated aim is to make better players – more tactically aware.
Not all players have the time to spend on reading up on tactics – hence the Player Exp modifier. Players also have the option to modify the rules to suit themselves.
If a player don’t have the time or inclination to improve his tactical skills and have an ego problem with adjusting his player exp then BCR could well be an unpleasant experience.
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Come on 88 - you're playing a dumb computer f'g'sake!!Originally posted by 88mm:Lose Favor? Retreat ?
this you call realistic ????
Hitler would have let me shot, within a week !
Let me see, last battle i took 415 prisoners, killed 133 enemies and lost 13 myself. Yet i loose experience :mad:
no my friend, the difficulty is too high. You can't expect 5 battles with near to none losses on your side....atleast not if you want those objectives, and the Fuhrer demands nothing less... :eek:
Besides, i am playing at "regular", for crying out loud. Don't even wanna think how things are with "expert" settings :cool:
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Some players here have started out as green/regular - fought right through - through the tough 41 winter - got upgraded to Crack along the way and now, in 42, most of their Battle Group is a mix of Vet and Crack.
I think you might have missed Note 8 - Player Experience
In determining a large part of your Task Force (29 to 33) and especially in Handicap (38) your Player Experience acts as a modifier.
Be very careful when giving yourself a rating. If you overestimate yourself you will have a very hard time!
CONSCRIPT - You have less than 6 months of war-gaming experience.
GREEN - You have played CMBO/CMBB for 2 years and have some other war-game experience as well.
REGULAR - I class myself in this category: 30 years war-gaming on and off with 5 years intensive war-gaming. CMBO/CMBB from the 1st CMBO demo
5+ PBEM's per night.You cannot play BCR asif it's a QB or TCP/IP with flag rushes determining results. BCR is a campaign - the survival of your troops is paramount. Forget about Hitler shooting you
Start treeting your troops as if they are your friends and comerades and you'll get it right. -
The East Front is a tough school my friendOriginally posted by 88mm:...
However; despite my superior forces and 4 total victories my troops are not getting significantly better, ...WTF. is wrong. Am i that bad ? Are the rules too tight ? This isn't fun at all. After a week fierce fighting you should expect to see the first veteran's on the battlefield.
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You must try and reduce your casualties to a realistic level: 1 or 2 max per squad and a lot less on avarage or you'll be losing experience. Rather retreat and lose favor!
Have a look at these areas:
Advance:
Careful scouting with a split squad before advancing with the rest.
Overwatch at all times!!
Supression fire on likely defensive positions.
Try and flank the enemy. Don't go for the largest flag 1st.
Defense
Don't stand and fight toe to toe with an enemy that has superior numbers: Fire and Manoeuvre!!
The AI is slow - use this to your advantage!
Create multiple layers of defensive positions using split squads to make multiple foxholes (+ fall back foxholes). Don't place men in buildings - 1st split them and make foxholes in the right places (reverse slopes etc) and then run them up to the buildings where you wanted them in the 1st place.
Remember to set arcs for +- 50m - don't fire until you can see the white's of their eyes
Don't waste arty by firing too fast - wait until you have a definitive concentration of enemy.
DO study tactics posted on the various sites and threads.
Don't give up too easily - you'll find that you will become a vastly different caliber of player once you've played BCR for a couple of months. I had to drop a couple of my old PBEM mates after a while - Our games were becoming very one-sided
If you upgrade your armor be aware that BCR will upgrade your armor as time goes on. Be carefull not to upgrade too fast or it will throw the ballance out. In Jan 42 you get the following:
1 Platoon of 3 x Sturmgeschutz IIIB
1 Platoon of 4 x Panzer IIIJ
[ May 10, 2003, 01:33 PM: Message edited by: Biltong ]
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So good of you to volunteerOriginally posted by Lou2000:I've been lurking .. NOW I'm eady ...putting a BCR FAQ together ..
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88 Mailed me with this one:
One question; How do you set the experience for each unit "ingame" ?
I only can set the company exp. (green/regular/veteran etc) but no invidual sqauds...."
Hii 88.
1st off - post all questions on the board, then everyone can see the Q & A. There's a lot of guys lurking here, too embarrassed to ask questions in case they look :cool:
It also saves me copying and pasting to the board. And sometimes the other guys save me from answering in the 1st place
As for setting unit attributes:
This is not in BCR yet. Seahawk posted the following sometime back:
1) launch the Editor from main CMBB panel
2) select Load -- This allows you to select from the MapPack
3) select Unit Editor -- This allows to purchase your Battle Group and attached units. In this panel you may then select one purchased unit and click on 'Edit' to change parameters such as experience, ammo, name, ...
4) when done, remember to Save on main Editor panel the map with the purchased units
5) launch QB as per battle parameters and Load Map (the one saved in the Editor) instead of letting QB generate one
6) purchase the Task Force Units
7) fight battle
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If you had Axis Force Mix, Nationality and Quality set as 'Unrestricted' it's a CMBB restriction. As for spending it on AFV - that's a bit extremeOriginally posted by Greebo:I have another question,
Sometimes I get the Big Guns (Large Art) and for some reason the QB restricts my purchase to less than the pts I have rolled up.
For example the battle I am fighting right now, had something like 1000pts of Art, but the QB restricted me to 700pts. My solution was to spend the extra on some AFV.
All the other cats gave me upto the maximum pts, just the Art cat is restricted. Am I missing something, or is this something to do with CMBB?
Thanks
I would say you just lose those points to keep things interesting, but I checked and there's no rules covering this eventuality. So you can do what you like
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Quite correct DB - Exactly what I do as well.Originally posted by DBaron:...For the pre QB, I don't even count the number of units or anything like that (too tedious). I don't have the patience to count them. I just go through, and see what types of units the game offers up. Then I buy those same units for the main battle.
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Hi Culex,Originally posted by Culex Pipiens:i just read all the rules and tryed to play my first game, but i have two questions when generating the game:
1- why there is no ground condition choice?
2- the defender when has the option to dug in?
i did not find no answer in the rules on these points
thanx
1- Ground Condition cannot be set in the QB. It's controlled by the AI depending on weather etc.
2- Same for 'Dug In' - No QB parameters - I don't have my CMBB manual handy, but AFAICR it depends if you are defending against an assault/attack/probe? Check your CMBB manual. It's in there somewhere.
Both are out of BCR's control.
Go well
Biltong
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Hi Scarhead,Originally posted by Scarhead:....
(Total casualty percentage after battle minus casualty percentage before battle) / (core force casualty percentage after battle minus casualty percentage before battle) is bigger than
2 Dice Roll, favor loss is Dice Roll-7
3 Dice Roll, favor loss is Dice Roll-6
4 Dice Roll, favor loss is Dice Roll-5
5 Dice Roll, favor loss is Dice Roll-4
6 Dice Roll, favor loss is Dice Roll-3
7 Dice Roll, favor loss is Dice Roll-2
8 Dice Roll, favor loss is Dice Roll-1
9 Dice Roll, favor loss is Dice Roll
10 Dice Roll, favor loss is Dice Roll+1
...
I like what you have done: logical and a clear explanation as well.
I'll add it to my list. It won't have a very high priority - maybe 44? Couple of things that need to be done before that.. e.g.:
1) Immobilized vehicles – returning to battle
2) Test & Include instructions re how to use the SE and pre-made maps in order to be able to edit and set exp/ammo for individual units in your company.
3) Some casualties (armor 1st, then inf.) to return faster after recovering from frostbite etc
and the highest priority at the moment is getting more City/Historical Battles made. These are a bastard and takes for ever.
But your idea won't be chucked away! Thanx
Biltong.
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This I've got to read. Are you going to post it here?Originally posted by History Buff:..."Why did the Soviets defeat Nazi Germany in WW2?" (FUN!) ...
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Hmm I shudder to think what the effects there's going to be. When I started out, I thought the South would be reletavely warm. I used temperatures from Kiev and Stalingrad as a sort of a midway point for the South, but as you can see... not a cosy place to hang around in December.Originally posted by OBJ:Biltong-
Do you have a feel for the winter '41 effects on just Army Group South? I can imagine the Russian winter in the northern latitudes was brutal.
I mailed you on the 28th - must've got lost? Mailed you again just now - Hope you get this one.Did you ever get my e-mailed xls file for unit and leader starting potential and tracking experience levels and leadership traits?
I like the principle behind it, but can't see how it can be implimented in a simple way. I.e. without recording all the TF units and counting casualties (esp when their's a casualty % in action). Any suggestions?What would you say to a favor penalty if the TF casualties significantly exceed core force casualties?
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Just clarified the rules:Originally posted by Snowbart:Upgrading Attached Units-
-Can you only upgrade one of your 3 units between each battle, or can you do all 3 if you have the points? I assume you may only upgrade one bet. each battle?
You may not have more than three Attached Units. If you already have 3 and get more points you can upgrade one or more of your Attached Units using the extra points and buy something better. Use the Experience of the replaced unit.
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[ May 05, 2003, 05:38 PM: Message edited by: Biltong ]
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Terminator IIIOriginally posted by History Buff:I'm back.
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Hi dwas,Originally posted by dwas:This might be a stupid question, but how do you define the Weeks in your rules? ...
BCR months has only 4 weeks for ease of computations.
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More:
The player will have to decide beforehand wether he's going to wait for the CO/other units to return or not. If not - they were useless in any case - he takes normal replacements. If 'yes' - he can't change his mind - he'll have to march the whole unit off the map and pay the opp force point penalty all the way until the unit returns or until it's death is confirmed and he can replace them as per normal
This should reduce the red-tape, since you'll only wait for a realy good unit.
Any problems with the above?
Anyone wants to try it and report back?
See, SS - You only have to nag me 30 times to get the old brain kick started
[ May 03, 2003, 11:46 AM: Message edited by: Biltong ]
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Super - You're just a closet atheist! You hate a higher hand interfereing with your well laid plansOriginally posted by SuperSulo:Ok, well now you know why I put that disclaimer there.
Point taken![QBBut for us, the casualties roll = deaths, as we never get them back. ...[/QB]
Now how to fix it or somefink?
The red tape involved with keeping track of each unit = how long they must stay away and how much exp they should retain, is a bit much. Unless someone can come up with a simple formula?
Off the top of my head:
What about setting one in place for the CO only. Die-roll determines how long he'll be out of action (he might not return of course).
E.g.: Each Normal Replacements you roll and 1 - 2 CO has returned. 6 CO died from his wounds.
While the CO's away the player can appoint the best junior officer to replace him, with some 15% exp and 2 x leadership quality loss. This Junior CO get's replaced with the 1st normal replacement as per normal.
The players can use the same formula for the rest of the Battle Group Units (excluding Attached Units).
How's that?
Biltong's Campaign Rules
in Combat Mission: Barbarossa to Berlin
Posted
But I could be way out, as I'm typing from memory. </font>