JoePrivate
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Posts posted by JoePrivate
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This is from a thread a few weeks ago:
<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>
Vet.Tiger vs Vet.M4A3(76)
Tiger
Hitchance - 16%
255shots/73hits
avg. shots 1st hit - 4.15
avg. shots per kill - 5.21
1st shot hits - 14%
worst case for 1st hit - 11shots
5 or more shots for 1st hit - 38%
Sherman(76)
Hitchance - 18%
305shots/116hits
avg. shots 1st hit - 2.85
1st shot hits - 21%
worst case for 1st hit - 8shots
The Sherman(76) KO'd the Tiger twice with weak point penetrations and damaged it's gun once.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
So the Sherman scored one gun damage out of 116 hits on the Tiger. Does that seem too high?
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<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>jshandorf wrote:
I for one would like the source material that supports all these guns hits.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
BTS has done a ton of research for this game, it isn't perfect but you can be sure they haven't pulled things out of a hat, something you would like to believe. You think there is something 'off' with the gun damage? Instead of bestowing examples of superior logic upon us and demanding someone else do the work of research for you, why don't you dig up some data on this issue yourself to make your point?
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There is a database floating around somewhere that lists the firepower ratings at varying ranges for all the squads, not sure where.
For your question I really won't open up with Rifle squads until the range is 100m or lower. For German SMG squads the closer the better, 50m or less generally, preferably less. A situation could dictate otherwise of course. MGs are what you need/use to begin firing at longer ranges. The way CM models combat there are no guarantees for a kill though suppressing the enemy so it's unable to fire back followed up by assaulting troops will normally give you the best results in achieving kills quickly.
So no I don't think it is worth it to be firing at 400m though your opponent may.
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Doc,
I'm curious what you are looking for, if not odds calculations or tables then what exactly? Like Los said - 'Learning what works and what doesn't is part of playing a game. Everything needed to play the game is presented to the player.'
You said you want a description of what is modelled, isn't that covered in the manual or from play of the game? Your example of terrain has 6 pages in the manual devoted to describing the different types so the player will know the difference, between a light or heavy building for example, simply from reading it.
I personally can't see your point, everything is there, either in the manual or from play so your insistence that it isn't tables that you want, begs the question of what it is specifically you need to play effectively? Or do you mean to play to win and that's what you are really looking for, the guarantee of the best move?
To quote Los again(great posts BTW)
<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Learning to play the game effectively is neither rocket science nor labor/time intensive. Having every detail provided to you so that you have peace of mind or surety of your decisions is neither something that happens in real combat as a leader, nor is it something that BTS wants you to experience within the framework of their design philosophy. It's a friction they want you to experience<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
That really sums it up and my post isn't a dig but genuine curiousity.
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Hi Drifter,
You never said what kind of ammo loadout the Comet and Firefly had. I'm curious because it may have something to do with them not engaging the light gun with their main gun, something I have yet to see. Thanks.
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Mmm, I think there is something else here also. I just finished playing a scenario where my defending troops were in foxholes(open ground) on the reverse slope of a ridge. I hoped to ambush the enemy as they came over. It didn't work out that way because as soon as my troops began receiving fire they left the safety of the foxholes for some scattered trees nearby. CM doesn't appear to weigh foxholes in the open very high in the cover department since scattered trees really aren't that great either. This was played with 1.03.
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Much appreciated Madmatt, your support is nothing short of amazing. Thanks.
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<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Abbott wrote:
Where has everyone's sense of humor run off to? Mine left with all the late nights playing CM. Now where the h@ll did I leave it??? Whew, here it is
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>It wasn't until now I realized I had lost mine also. Oh, all the games of watching Allied artillery lay waste to my beloved troops, super fast Greyhounds chewing up my Panthers, and countless hits from my Firefly bounce off Tigers, among other horrible things, has left me a hardened, bitter man. My ego has been dented badly, damage control is running full bore but perhaps what's done is irreversible. I have become grim in my determination to crush the enemy at all costs, there is no room for humor anymore, especially from smartass taunters. Thank you for the reminder of a way of being that I have sadly ignored recently and hopefully it isn't too late, off now...
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I think this is the result of player wishes. There were complaints before of a unit ignoring it's ambush marker to engage an enemy from a different area. BTS tweaked this in 1.05 so units stayed focused on their assigned ambush. From the 1.05 readme:
'* Units will NOT switch away from an ambush marker target just because they have been spotted by the enemy.'
Perhaps it is too effective now? Or one needs to be more careful setting out ambushes
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<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Bullethead wrote:
I've never played a scenario with the PAK 43, so don't know how long it takes to unlimber. If it's on the order of 2-3 minutes, however, I'd say that would be a fair approximation of the "hasty" emplacement technique.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
IIRC it takes 8 minutes for the PAK43 to unlimber.
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<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Rommel22 wrote:
BTS, please consider this option, please!!! It would add to the realism. Situations where tanks rammed each other was a common accourance, I think I have pictures of it somewhere, if I find them I'll try to post them.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Really? Ask yourself this, if you were the TC with your main gun inoperable would you be running around trying to ram other tanks? Does that seem reasonable?
I'm sure there were instances when this happened but I think the occurrences would be better described as rare rather than common.
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<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Drifter wrote:
Has anyone had this happen?;
I have a tank turning a corner, when it suddenly takes a hit: "upper hull hit - no damage". This happens three times, until the crew identifies the threat. and designates it "light gun?".
My problem now is, that the tank (a Comet)doesn´t engage this light gun with its main gun - only with mg fire.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
No I haven't seen this behaviour either against guns. In some scenarios I have noticed the Firefly has no HE rounds, don't know about the Comet, perhaps this is why it didn't engage with the main gun?
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I have seen rifle grenades used a couple times against German armor at close assault range, around 40m or less. They both hit the MkIVs to no effect. They may go out to 200m but I think their effective range is much smaller.
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Another suggestion is to play L'Elle river crossing as the US attacker. It is an all infantry action scenario with about two companies worth of troops, medium size. There is a river, bridge, woods, hills and lots of attacking. Moon did a great job with this one and you (as the US) will need your wits about you to reach your objectives.
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Yeah I just checked myself, there is no delay for commands given in the same turn even if you click off and then return to issue more. There is a delay however when you issue new movement orders to a unit with an existing chain from the previous turn.
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<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>jshandorf wrote:
AAAArgh. When I say "model" snipers like AT teams I don't mean to model each "bullet" fired. I am talking about the params of that unit, i.e. Ammo, Ammo load, ROF, etc.
I know that the bullets from the infantry and such are not modeled "exactly" in the game.
Basically then it comes down to the fact that with the current modeling of infantry a sniper unit with ONE rifle can kill more then ONE man when it shoots. Doesn't anybody see how wierd this is?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
You seem to be contradicting yourself here.
"I don't mean to model each "bullet" fired.....ONE rifle can kill more then ONE man when it shoots...how wierd this is?"
I think BTS specifically called these units 'Sharpshooters' and not 'Snipers' so the associated mindset of one shot/one kill for snipers wouldn't be applied to them. As has been stated before the firing and ammo is abstracted as is the graphical representation. You seem to want or expect a more detailed model hence the confusion.
IMO these units aren't too powerful at all. They can pick off a few TCs or weapon crewmen if given the right conditions but once spotted they can't stand up to any fire like a squad can.
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<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Madmatt wrote:
You end the chain buy clicking another unit or hitting the space bar. Now then, you can ADD to the chain by issueing new movment orders but that new order will incur a delay penalty of several seconds.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
This applies to commands given to a unit in the same turn? Or the next turn? If in the same turn that's new to me. I'll have to try that.
Your comment about pause stopping all hull movement raises the question then if the assault gun was pointed in the right direction to fire, would it fire given a pause command? Perhaps this is what I saw/did earlier and hadn't noticed the hull facing until now. Thanks for the feedback.
[This message has been edited by JoePrivate (edited 09-05-2000).]
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I have just noticed the same thing in a QB. I ordered a Stug to area fire then reverse/move away after a delay of 30 seconds. It never even turned to fire, just sat motionless, then carried out the movement orders. I used to be able to do this earlier. Has something changed?
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<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>jshandorf wrote:
I pray you are not an American, but if you are our public schools have failed you. You have my condolences.
Jeff<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Lol, no I'm not an American and yes I know who Kennedy was. I was simply trying to point out(hopefully in a helpful manner) what CM does/is and the fallacy of trying to relate what you think or know of 'reality' to the game.
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Who's Kennedy?
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I remember reading, not sure where now, of a British Rifleman in WWI who fired 35 shots(IIRC) into the bullseye of a target at 600yds in one minute. That was using a Lee-Enfield. It seemed so out there that it always stuck in my mind, the more knowledgeable can correct me on the particulars if I am mistaken.
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As been said elsewhere they are Sharpshooters not snipers, there is a difference. Your two guys with one 'bullet' analogy is wrong as the ammo loadout is an abstraction and doesn't represent the number of 'bullets'. What is being simulated is the actions of the sharpshooter in the one minute turn resolution where it could have fired several 'shots'.
It works as was meant to so no need for a change or patch, just your perceptions need to be adjusted.
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I have found that scenarios with a large number of vehicles and their movement paths is what pushes the size of the movie pbem file up, upwards of 1.6 megs. Other than those occasions the files seem quite reasonable, well under one meg for the majority.
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If you have figured out it was in bad taste why, WHY don't you edit and delete the offensive material??
What does "Gun Damaged" really mean?
in Combat Mission Archive #2 (2000)
Posted
I'm not a grognard by any means or even slightly technical. What I have learned about WWII has come from this forum, CMHQ and playing CM. Like others I have rarely seen gun damage from direct fire, when it has happened it is usually from artillery so I setup a scenario and checked the results of 105 and 155 artillery against four Panthers parked 2x2. Both barrages lasted about two minutes.
105 artillery(50 shells)
#1---3 immobilized/1 gun damaged
#2---1 immobilized/1 top penetration
#3---2 immobilized/1 gun damaged
#4---1 gun damaged
#5---no effect
#6---1 immobilized/2 gun damaged
#7---2 immobilized/1 gun damaged
#8---2 immobilized/2 top penetrations
#9---3 immobilized
#0---1 immobilized
155 artillery(25 shells)
#1---3 immobilized/1 gun damaged
#2---2 immobilized/3 gun damaged
#3---2 immobilized
#4---2 immobilized/1 gun damaged/1 top penetration
#5---4 immobilized
#6---1 immobilized/2 top penetrations
#7---3 immobilized/1 gun damaged
#8---3 immobilized/1 gun damaged
#9---3 immobilized
#0---3 immobilized/1 top penetration
While interesting in highlighting the power of artillery, any half decent player would have blown that particular popsicle stand as soon as the first shells started landing, with a 'Catch me if you can' as his parting words.
Just some more food for thought.